DutyCat Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) The following was screen captured from a photo in a youtube video. It shows a VF-84 Tomcat in very early TPS. This was almost certainly taken during the 83 Med cruise(which I was on), or the 85 cruise. We had two VF-84 TPS aircraft on the 83 cruise (two VF-41 TPS also). The rest were overall gull gray. I would like to model this, but there are very few references of this period in JR history. I should have taken more photos when I was there! Note the "AJ" is on the outside of the tails. Looks better, IMO. Edited June 27, 2009 by DutyCat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mhoupt Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Didn't Hasegawa do these decals for their 1/72 "Atlantic Fleet" rendition of the Tomcat? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimz66 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I think they might be covered in the Tony Holmes Book from the early 90's? Not sure though. My copy is hidden away right now. Sorry I can't be more helpful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) Didn't Hasegawa do these decals for their 1/72 "Atlantic Fleet" rendition of the Tomcat? Nope, they are toned down markings with an single grey scheme from 1988. The tail is grey with a yellow cap and the AJ on the inside of the tails. IFAIK, nobody has done any decals for those birds that DutyCat is looking for. As far as pictures, Almansur's Unofficail Jolly Rogers Site has the best pictures of any JR site on the web. Unfortunatly, he doesn't update it anymore . A few pictures with the scheme that you are looking for are about midway down the page. I hope this helps. Edited June 27, 2009 by Johnopfor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I think Microscale/Superscale did that scheme way back in the 80s ... I did up a Revell 1:32 Tomcat in those markings waaaay back in 85 or 86 ... I believe they did them in the smaller scales too ... Photos of that scheme also appear in the D&S Atlantic Fleet Tomcat Color and Markings book too ... That was published in 1984 so they are of them with the AJ on the outside and not on the inner side of the tails ... HTH ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Filak Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I think Microscale/Superscale did that scheme way back in the 80s ... I did up a Revell 1:32 Tomcat in those markings waaaay back in 85 or 86 ... I believe they did them in the smaller scales too ... Photos of that scheme also appear in the D&S Atlantic Fleet Tomcat Color and Markings book too ... That was published in 1984 so they are of them with the AJ on the outside and not on the inner side of the tails ... HTH ... Gregg Yup, that would be sheet #48-327. I thought I had a scan of the sheet around, but I can't find it at the moment. The sheet does feature the 'AJ' tail codes on the outside of the tails, as depicted in the screen capture shown in DutyCat's post. Edit: Found a scan of the sheet and the instructions over at Modeling Madness: http://modelingmadness.com/others/decals/b...inicss48327.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I think Microscale/Superscale did that scheme way back in the 80s ... Gregg I think that you are reffering to Super Scale 72-558, the aircraft is all grey, but the markings are in black (CAG TPS?). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Yup, that would be sheet #48-327. I thought I had a scan of the sheet around, but I can't find it at the moment. The sheet does feature the 'AJ' tail codes on the outside of the tails, as depicted in the screen capture shown in DutyCat's post.Edit: Found a scan of the sheet and the instructions over at Modeling Madness: http://modelingmadness.com/others/decals/b...inicss48327.htm That is also Super Scale 72-558. BTW, what is "gloss gull grey"? Is that FS 16440? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Filak Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 John, It is 16440, but the painting instructions given on the instruction sheet don't make any sense, given the time frame of the markings. The scheme should be a two-tone TPS scheme, similar to this photo from Jose Herculano's site: http://www.almansur.com/jollyrogers/javierbobadilla.jpg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 John,It is 16440, but the painting instructions given on the instruction sheet don't make any sense, given the time frame of the markings. The scheme should be a two-tone TPS scheme, similar to this photo from Jose Herculano's site: http://www.almansur.com/jollyrogers/javierbobadilla.jpg Well, it does say "low-viz", but it doesn't really indicate a time frame. The set that I have (72-558) doesn't give any painting instructions, just decals placement. I also found this SuperScale sheet, 48-1039 with almost the same black markings, but different serial number (160382). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Filak Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Well, it does say "low-viz", but it doesn't really indicate a time frame. The set that I have (72-558) doesn't give any painting instructions, just decals placement. I also found this SuperScale sheet, 48-1039 with almost the same black markings, but different serial number (160382). That's interesting; another minor variation with sheet #48-1039 is the black anti-glare panel. The vagabond stripes also show subtle differences; the stripe on 327 has one less 'V' than 1039. Just goes to show you how many variations you can get within a squadron in a fairly narrow time frame. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reddog Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I think that photo was taken during BRIGHT STAR 85 (85 Med Cruise) and I will look through my cruise book for it. I'm at the in-law currently so give me a few days. V/R Reddog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 That's interesting; another minor variation with sheet #48-1039 is the black anti-glare panel. The vagabond stripes also show subtle differences; the stripe on 327 has one less 'V' than 1039. Just goes to show you how many variations you can get within a squadron in a fairly narrow time frame. So, let me run these questions by....... From the pictures that I have seen (I'm also looking at a painting of a VF-84 AJ205 from 1986 in a two-tone grey TPS scheme on the back of Squadron's F-14 Tomcat in action book) it appears that the mid-80's TPS scheme "should" be a two-tone grey with gunship grey/ dark gull grey? markings. On the Superscale sheets, the TPS is FS 16440 with black markings & red intake markings. 1) Could the SS sheets be modeling a TPS scheme from 1985, or are they just wrong? 2) What are the two TPS greys FS #'s shown in the photographs and what is the FS #'s for the markings? 3) Is anyone else thinking about asking Fightertown for a Tomcat sheet with these two-tone TPS markings? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) quote/"A few pictures with the scheme that you are looking for are about midway down the page"/unquote// No, that's not it. That scheme on the website was introduced on the 87 Nimitz cruise, which I was on also(I did the 83, 87, and 89 cruises, but missed 85). Notice how in the pics on that website, the tail code is on the inside of the stabs, and the foward fuselage color demarcation is hard edged. I have not seen the D @ S book. Does anyone have it? The scheme I am looking for is the very first TPS Jolly Rogers Tomcat scheme. Here is a pic I took on work-ups in 82, or maybe early on cruise. In any case, this plane appeared fresh from the paint barn. The reason I didn't take a few more pics was because I thought pics would be plentiful (yes I am an idiot). The color variation you see around the edges is because this photo was framed and light did not get to the edges for years. This was a full TPS bird. Not an ounce of color anywhere. Ok, here is another pic, supposedly from 1984. I don't know where I got it. It is hard to tell if this plane is TPS or Gull Gray. It kinda looks like Gull Gray with black markings to me, but the quality of the photo is so bad. Looks like that might be a red warning stripe on the fuselage. Also, a big giveaway here is the obviously black and white tailhook, not that that was never seen on a TPS jet. But overall, my vote here goes for a gull gray plane in this pic. Now, IIRC, according to REDDOG, who was on the 85 cruise, no JR Tomcat was in Gull Gray, so this jet above was either TPS (doesn't look like it to me), or got painted TPS before the cruise. The microscale sheet mentioned calls out Gull Gray, but the scheme is not dated, and no references are given. If anyone has an 85 Nimitz cruisebook, that might be helpful. Now here is another shot, available elsewhere on the web, which shows the early TPS scheme. This pic looks like RR. Edited June 28, 2009 by DutyCat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) So, let me run these questions by.......From the pictures that I have seen (I'm also looking at a painting of a VF-84 AJ205 from 1986 in a two-tone grey TPS scheme on the back of Squadron's F-14 Tomcat in action book) it appears that the mid-80's TPS scheme "should" be a two-tone grey with gunship grey/ dark gull grey? markings. On the Superscale sheets, the TPS is FS 16440 with black markings & red intake markings. 1) Could the SS sheets be modeling a TPS scheme from 1985, or are they just wrong? 2) What are the two TPS greys FS #'s shown in the photographs and what is the FS #'s for the markings? 3) Is anyone else thinking about asking Fightertown for a Tomcat sheet with these two-tone TPS markings? 1. The SS sheet has always been a question mark because no one has produced a photo, except, it looks as though I might have above, except it is 201. Again, I do not know where I got it from. So maybe the SS sheet is legit after all? 2. The TPS colors are USUALLY going to be light ghost gray(36375) on the bottom, and either dark ghost gray(36320) or TPS "medium gray" (35237)on top. The medium gray is that blue gray they use on CF-18s and some USN jets. I personally think that during this time frame the top color would have been medium gray as dark and light ghost gray back then were almost identical colors, and once they had been out in the son for a few weeks, it all looked the same color. REDDOG and I had a discussion about what color A-7's were once, but that is another subject. There was also an early period where there was a TPS light gray (it was VERY light, almost white - 36495) used, but it was discarded pretty quickly. The markings may have been darker that gunship or light gull gray. If you look at my pic above, the markings appear almost black....but not quite. 3. Fightertown just does 1/48. I am a 1/72 guy, so it would help someone other than me if they produce it. I don't think there will be enough references to produce one anyway. I could maybe be a little creative with the SS sheet and pull it off. Edited June 28, 2009 by DutyCat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Filak Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 If you look at my pic above, the markings appear almost black....but not quite. I was thinking that when I looked at the photo. 36081 maybe? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Well, the SS sheets are about the closest produced so far anyway of Jolly Roger birds in that timeframe ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 Well, the SS sheets are about the closest produced so far anyway of Jolly Roger birds in that timeframe ... Gregg True. As I was saying, it is do-able. Just use the black decals and maybe spray a thin ghost gray wash over it. I was just hoping there were more pics around. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reddog Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Ok, here is another pic, supposedly from 1984. I don't know where I got it. It is hard to tell if this plane is TPS or Gull Gray. It kinda looks like Gull Gray with black markings to me, but the quality of the photo is so bad. Looks like that might be a red warning stripe on the fuselage. Also, a big giveaway here is the obviously black and white tailhook, not that that was never seen on a TPS jet. But overall, my vote here goes for a gull gray plane in this pic. Now, IIRC, according to REDDOG, who was on the 85 cruise, no JR Tomcat was in Gull Gray, so this jet above was either TPS (doesn't look like it to me), or got painted TPS before the cruise. That picture was taken by me on work ups in Jan 85. I will look at the 85 Med cruise book when I get back to the homestead tomorrow night. I don't recall any of 84's jets being in gull grey during the cruise but they did have a few (the one above is in G/G) during the Nov 84 and Jan 85 work ups. Reddog :wacko: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roym Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 FWIW, the Hasegawa old school F-14A Low vis boxing has 160393 from VF-84 with the AJ on the outer tails and the smaller skull marking with a quoted TPS of 35237, 36375 and 36320 (top to bottom in that order). It does not give a timeframe though. I'd be interested in knowing the actual colour too as all these are on my to-do list for my CVW-8 collection, as are the A-7Es mentioned earlier. I always thought that Superscale got it wrong with 16440 overall Gull Grey. Wouldn't be the first time. The Bu. No. given is 168419! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 FWIW, the Hasegawa old school F-14A Low vis boxing has 160393 from VF-84 with the AJ on the outer tails and the smaller skull marking with a quoted TPS of 35237, 36375 and 36320 (top to bottom in that order). It does not give a timeframe though. I'd be interested in knowing the actual colour too as all these are on my to-do list for my CVW-8 collection, as are the A-7Es mentioned earlier. I always thought that Superscale got it wrong with 16440 overall Gull Grey. Wouldn't be the first time. The Bu. No. given is 168419! I would be very interested to get ahold of the instructions and decals for that kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 Did a quick search and came up with Marko Trnski's ScaleAir Reference in which he lists: 48-357 F-14A Tomcat VF-84 first low visibility scheme USS Nimitz (?) link here: http://scaleair.com/Reference%20Pages/Mode...Mref1/Mref1.htm However, I did a search on the sheet number and 48-357 is an F-16 sheet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roym Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I would be very interested to get ahold of the instructions and decals for that kit. Look here; Andy's site p.s. PM inbound! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 Look here;Andy's site p.s. PM inbound! Awesome. THAT is what I was looking for. Now, to be able to find it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jollyrogerf14 Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 That picture was taken by me on work ups in Jan 85. I will look at the 85 Med cruise book when I get back to the homestead tomorrow night. I don't recall any of 84's jets being in gull grey during the cruise but they did have a few (the one above is in G/G) during the Nov 84 and Jan 85 work ups.Reddog THAT'S IT!! THAT'S THE PROOF I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR!!! <_< All-over Gull Gray with Black markings! Now the only question remaining is, did it have the black anti-glare panel forward of the windscreen? Vince Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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