A vehicle that flew - even without wings!

[janman]

My next project: a car of somekind. Can you guess the type?

Edited July 8, 2009 by janman

[richter111]

Ferrari engine, rear mount

F-40?

[janman]

Ferrari engine, rear mount

F-40?

Not a Ferrari engine and strictly speaking it's a mid-engine layout. Only four cylinders, by the way.

I did some test-fitting for the engine parts to see which ones need some extra detailing. A way to avoid pointless work on parts that will be hidden under other parts/structures.

[illithid00]

Is it the car from Darwin Awards that had the RATO bottle strapped to it?

[ChernayaAkula]

I was about to suggest the Mercedes CLR that took to the air at Le Mans 1999, but I think that one had more than four cylinders.

How about another hint? <_<

Edited July 7, 2009 by ChernayaAkula

[richter111]

4 banger, must be a Lotus Esprit

[Dave Williams]

The Lola T70 that was mocked up as a Ferrari for the big crash scene in Le Mans?

[mkimages]

Lotus Europa TC. Late '60's racing version with the 1.6L Cosworth engine.

[janman]

4 banger, must be a Lotus Esprit

Lotus Europa TC. Late '60's racing version with the 1.6L Cosworth engine.

Nothing British. Not the car, nor the engine. But the engine is supercharged.

As the header says, these cars truly did fly - occasionally.

[moeggo]

Its mid engine set-up... for sure... Japanese maybe???

I want to say AW10/AW11 Toyota MR2 with a 4A-GZE...

Edited July 8, 2009 by moeggo

[janman]

I was about to suggest the Mercedes CLR that took to the air at Le Mans 1999, but I think that one had more than four cylinders.

How about another hint?

Not a German car either, but it was driven very succesfully by a German.

Its mid engine set-up... for sure... Japanese maybe???

I want to say AW10/AW11 Toyota MR2 with a 4A-GZE...

Not Japanese either.

[Andy Mullen]

Something similar to this >> AVE Mizar << ?

[MoFo]

Right, let's narrow things down, to what it is, and what it isn't, then.

It's not a passenger or otherwise normal sports car. It IS some sort of racing vehicle - that's not a standard centre console.

It's probably a two-seat race car - if it were a LeMans vehicle or similar, it wouldn't have the second seat mounting tab.

"It really flew" etc., since from the hints it appears you're not just talking speed, that means it's most likely a rally car of some sort, since they're about the only racing cars that get airborne regularly. (darn, I know next to nothing about WRC stuff)

Not Japanese would rule out Subarus and Mitsubishis. Could be a Ford or Peugeot or something. Except most of those are front engined, not mid-engined. Not German would rule out Audis and BMWs.

The white plastic and general style rules out a Tamiya kit. Their mounting pins/tabs etc. would also be done differently. It looks more like a Hasegawa kit to me, though it could be Italeri, too. Having an engine would eliminate a lot of options, since most Hasegawa WRC kits are curbside. It also looks like an older kit, so it's probably a pre-2000 subject.

So.... Hasegawa WRC kits, with an engine, 4 cylinder (and supercharged)... Scanning through HLJ's list of Hasegawa racing car kits.... I'd guess it's a Lancia 037. (definately not a Stratos, might be a Delta? Googled the 037 - engine seems to fit, so I'll go with that)

[janman]

Right, let's narrow things down, to what it is, and what it isn't, then.

It's not a passenger or otherwise normal sports car. It IS some sort of racing vehicle - that's not a standard centre console.

It's probably a two-seat race car - if it were a LeMans vehicle or similar, it wouldn't have the second seat mounting tab.

"It really flew" etc., since from the hints it appears you're not just talking speed, that means it's most likely a rally car of some sort, since they're about the only racing cars that get airborne regularly. (darn, I know next to nothing about WRC stuff)

Not Japanese would rule out Subarus and Mitsubishis. Could be a Ford or Peugeot or something. Except most of those are front engined, not mid-engined. Not German would rule out Audis and BMWs.

The white plastic and general style rules out a Tamiya kit. Their mounting pins/tabs etc. would also be done differently. It looks more like a Hasegawa kit to me, though it could be Italeri, too. Having an engine would eliminate a lot of options, since most Hasegawa WRC kits are curbside. It also looks like an older kit, so it's probably a pre-2000 subject.

So.... Hasegawa WRC kits, with an engine, 4 cylinder (and supercharged)... Scanning through HLJ's list of Hasegawa racing car kits.... I'd guess it's a Lancia 037. (definately not a Stratos, might be a Delta? Googled the 037 - engine seems to fit, so I'll go with that)

Bingo! We have a winner. I have to say I like your way of reasoning!

It's a Lancia 037 Rally Evoluzione II. "Tour de Corse 1984" boxing, to be precise. Driven by Markku Alen, who won that particular rally - among many others.

[janman]

Some progress.

Most of the engine parts are now painted and after some detail painting and weathering are ready to be glued together. I'll add some ignition wire, cooling hoses etc. and even scratch-build some quite visible parts that are omitted from the kit.

The very bulky uprights were scaled down a bit and will be joined with the modified shock absorber/spring assembly (seen on the second photo with the kit original ones)

[geedubelyer]

Oh yeah,...neat progress so far Jan. That coil-over is a massive improvement over the stock part.

I'm not too familiar with the 037, will this be in Martini livery?

Keep us posted on your progress please.

Cheers,

[janman]

Oh yeah,...neat progress so far Jan. That coil-over is a massive improvement over the stock part.

I'm not too familiar with the 037, will this be in Martini livery?

Keep us posted on your progress please.

Cheers,

Thanks, Guy. I'll do the same for the front part eventhough it won't be that visible. I'll cut off the rear body so that it can be positioned open making the whole rear suspension visible.

And yes, it will be in Martini Racing livery.

Here's the exact car driven by Alen in 1984 Tour de Corse.

[geedubelyer]

And yes, it will be in Martini Racing livery.

Ah,..thanks Jan. It had to be really did n't it? Of course, you'll need to get a Stratos and Delta now to go with this one...

Let's see some more progress soon please.

[janman]

Ah,..thanks Jan. It had to be really did n't it? Of course, you'll need to get a Stratos and Delta now to go with this one... :blink:

Well, it really kinda had since those were the colours on the factory cars - and those were the cars Markku Alen drove. There were several private teams that also used 037s and one can even find some AM decals for them.

What comes to Delta and Stratos, I seem to have developed a plan of somekind in my head for building all Lancias Alen drove during his succesful career. Unfortunately no injection molded model is available in 1/24 for Delta S4, the meanest of them all, nor for Fulvia which was his first Lancia. So, as you said, I only need Stratos and Delta HF/Integrale to go with this one. :o

I'll try to post some photos soon.

[HOLMES]

IT is coming along nicely..

Questions....Is it easier to make car models than Jets.

and do you spend a much time with the detailing and exacting details as you would on a jet that you build....

This is just great ....

HOLMES

[janman]

Good question, Holmes.

But the answer is: I really can't say - yet. The biggest difference will probably be painting the bodywork since on a car the paint finish is pretty much flawless and shiny without the fluid stains and heavy weathering that can partly cover any flaws on a military aircraft.

As on a fighter jet kit, I'll try to add as many visible details as possible and correct all the obvious and easily correctable mistakes.

[MoFo]

Questions....Is it easier to make car models than Jets.

and do you spend a much time with the detailing and exacting details as you would on a jet that you build....

(hijack)Yes and no. A lot of people will say it is harder to build cars. *Personally*, I think it's just different. Each modelling genre is surprisingly unique, with its own challenges and techniques. If you're used to building one kind of model, that kind of model will be relatively easy. But going from one genre to another can seem 'hard'. Aircraft modellers often find car models 'hard'. But car modellers find aircraft 'hard'. Just like WWII and Jet modellers get scared off by the complexity of biplanes, and biplane modellers get scared off by all the ordnance and decals of modern jets.

Car models typically require very 'clean' building - you're doing a lot more pre-painting, so you've got to be very careful about glue smears and runs, since you can't just sand and smooth them out. Which also means minor fit problems can be more of a concern - you don't want to spend hours detail painting an engine, only to find nothing fits come assembly. As a result, seamwork seems to be an achilles heel for many car modellers, where most aircraft guys have that area down fairly well. Gloss paint jobs have a steep learning curve and are probably the hardest thing for new car modellers, but once you've figured it out, is a fairly basic thing - most 'experienced' car modellers don't seem to bat an eye over a reasonably good gloss finish. On the other hand, weathering on car models is seen as tricky, where it's basic for aircraft guys. Decals are also more of a concern for car modellers - cars generally don't have many, and when they do, they're usually fairly simple (large area, but mostly solid, so not a lot of silvering potential) - where aircraft guys are used to handling loads of little stencils. Just... different.

Detail wise, aircraft models generally have more "tiny" bits than cars (though I've got a 1/87 Mazda 787B on the bench, complete with a tiiiiny little PE steering wheel). A 1/24 or 1/20 PE fret will have a few fiddly little bits, but not a lot of carpet monster fodder; a 1/72 or 1/48 PE fret will have a few large parts, with plenty of carpet monster fodder. Resin details are generally scarcer for cars, but there's a lot more machined/turned aluminium - stuff like wheels, exhausts, switches, antenna bases - which is pretty much unheard of for aircraft modellers. (there was a product post here a week or so ago, for some Su-27? exhausts, which included machined aluminium plates... that's probably the first time I've seen it in an aircraft set, but it's quite common in car aftermarket) Similarly, "serious" aircraft modellers will add a lot of aftermarket stuff, and do a bit of scratchbuilding with styrene; I've noticed a lot of car modellers... how can I put this diplomatically... "often aren't entirely seperate the world of scale miniatures with building actual cars". You see an awful lot more car modellers talking as though they think they're building the real thing. "Serious" car modellers seem to be more likely to do their own milling, machining and metal lathing, producing one-off scratchbuild bits. Which, to the casual observer, seems to be a lot more complicated/involved than gluing a few styrene scraps together to make a cockpit.

Just... different.

THe interesting thing that I have noticed, is that the limited run, higher end, cottage industry car modeller seems to have things far better than his aircraft counterpart. There seems to be a lot more 'quality' to a 1/43 Tameo or Paddock car than a Classic Airframes or CMK kit. Metal vs. resin castings for the basic parts, but lots of tiny, perfectly formed machined metal parts, wiring and tubing, multiple PE frets in different materials and thicknesses to more accurately depict different components, cloisonne-ed PE for lights and badges (unheard of in the aircraft world - closest thing is Eduard's pre-painted PE), pre-formed PE parts for wheels and such, with bending dies, jigs and templates to form other parts... They just seem to be higher-tech, material-wise, and more jewel-like. Though granted, prices for limited run car stuff go an *awful* lot higher than their aviation counterparts - it's hard to find anything less than $50, and that'll be a curbside kit; more detailed stuff starts at around $100, and can easily top $1000.(/hijack)

[janman]

^ Good points, MoFo.

The finished chassis. As noted earlier, all four coil springs (progressive on the rear axle) were scratched from metal wire. I've seen pale blue front springs on some photos of actual Martini Lancia racers so I still might change the colour.

Same goes for the rear shock absorbers since they can be in black/very dark grey as well. I'm still not sure whether yellow was as common.

The brake disks are covered with PE pieces from Studio 27 set. They looked a bit too shiny as OOB, so I sanded some grooves on them to achieve a more realistic look.

The front end will be left as it is now since not much will be visible after the body is installed. I was tempted to detail the area under the bonnet but because it's quite empty on the kit (no tubular frame details nor spare tire), I will concentrate on the engine room.

[Rocat]

nice progress!

[Silverback]

Just a WAG

Phil

BTW: :lol: