Living Legend Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Are these basically the same plane as far as fuselage length and wing? Are there any notable differences besides the 323c being covertible? Thx for any help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GCA333 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 The only difference is, as you said, the C being convertable (and having a higher MTOW). Some were fitted with uprated engines, but I do not believe they are noticeable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
72linerlover Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Hi, Living Legend. I can't swear of, but: -no more ventral fin -new style nose gear door -one more section of leading edge flap (Krüger flap) inboard of the inboard engine. Note the 320C is not a developement of the 230B Adv; this came later. Regards Euge Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Living Legend Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 Note the 320C is not a developement of the 230B Adv; this came later. Now that you mention that I remeber something along those lines. I get mixed up on 707s(. Basically Im trying to determine if theres enough differences between the 2 to justify building both. When I look at photos of the 2 it seems that the 323c fuselage may be a bit longer. Thx for the help both of you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
72linerlover Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Hi You can't ever say when a difference is enough to put effort in multiple building. Probably, comparing –320C to –320B (not Adv) fuselages you get the impression that the first is longer because of the lack of the ventral fin. That's just my thought. The –320C and -320B Adv are closer each other than to a 320B. Only the engines used in some -320B Adv make the difference with larger additional intakes on the cowling. It's though true, on the other side, that those engines equipped also B variants, so… only the airline, the age, the location and, probably, the moon phase, make the difference. Since you speak about –323s, they should be AA ships, (or other that acquired second or third hand 707s) so they should be easier to search. Regards Euge Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Didn't David Hingtgen post an "Everything About the 707" either here or over at Airlinercafe a while back? Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
72linerlover Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Didn't David Hingtgen post an "Everything About the 707" either here or over at Airlinercafe a while back?Ben Got it! Fantastic article. Here it is Euge Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Hingtgen Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) Yes I did. And basically: You've gotta be specific. 99% of the time, if you see a photo that is captioned "707-320B"---it's not! It's probably a -320BAdv! The basic -320B model is fairly rare. You won't see many. Same for the "737-200"-----most are the Adv variant, even if the photo caption etc doesn't say so. The 707-320BAdv and -320C are usually identical asides from cargo/service doors---the first year of production of the -320BAdv has the earlier style of nosegear doors though---but the vast majority of -320BAdv have the same nosegear doors as the -320C. Don't forget the hat-rack service/exit door right behind the wing---that's a "C" feature. Now, -320B vs -320BAdv, the obvious difference is that the Adv has no ventral fin. The hard-to-see difference is that the -320BAdv has a bit more LE flap at the extreme inboard part of the wing---3 segments, instead of 2. Note that each flap segment of "3" is smaller than the "2" flap segments, so the overall flap area is only slightly increased. I have yet to find a consistent difference in the aux intakes (thin slits vs large squares) in the nacelles among the -320 family---they vary, but I can't find the link/reason as to what style will be on what plane. PS--I'm working on getting my DC-9 and DC-10 guides up at airlinercafe. ::edit:: I just noticed that the thread title is "-323"---AA's fleet is unique in many ways. Be sure to check the antenna and turbocompressor configuration---AA's fleet often differed from every other airline's. And AA's -320C fleet seemed to be composed of two variants---cargo-dedicated, and mixed/combi. Thinking, I don't recall ever coming across an AA 707-320B, I think they only had the -320BAdv. Edited July 21, 2009 by David Hingtgen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Living Legend Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 Didn't David Hingtgen post an "Everything About the 707" either here or over at Airlinercafe a while back?Ben That is a good article, but doesnt mention fuselage lengths(. And yes these are intended as AA birds. Im planning to do as many of their fleet as I can. The amount of planes I do from their fleet will be determined by my time and wallet. So far I have the following kits: 707 Polecat MINICRAFT 2 727 200 MINICRAFT 737-200 AIRFIX 737-300 DACO 737-800 REVELL 747-100 REVELL 777-200 MINICRAFT DC-10/10 ADVENT/REVELL DC-10/30 AIRFIX MD-80 MINICRAFT F-100 REVELL BAE 146 REVELL A300 all 3 kits AIRFIX, REVELL Beluga and REVELL A340 A good start but still along way to go, and lots of windows to fill. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Living Legend Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) Thx for the help David. And yes I should have stated that tey were AA. Edited July 22, 2009 by Living Legend Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Hingtgen Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Huh, I did forget 707-120 to -320 fuselage stretch dimensions. I think I got all the others though... Anyways---the entire -320/420 family have the same fuselage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Living Legend Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 Grr. I see that now. Sorry David. This is fustrating, the more I read the less I know. I feel like Im going backwards. So if as Im doing AA 707s would this kit line up work? 720 welsh 120 revell awacs 120b mincraft polecat/welsh 720 kit bash 320c minicraft polecat 320badv minicraft polecat with modified door decals Does this list make a good basic AA 707 fleet? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
72linerlover Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Don't' want to overtake David that is much more expert than me, but you're waiting for an answer. This is just my opinion: So if as Im doing AA 707s would this kit line up work? 720 welsh - OK 120 revell awacs – is a 1/139 scale, no lobe crease, probably wrong fuselage length, only two (inside) correct engine pylons. The -100 (and Braniff -200) series generally had 4 turbo compressor humps even if the external were empty 120b mincraft polecat/welsh 720 kit bash – OK, but you have to shorten the minicraft fuselage or stretch the welsh one. Check the vertical tailplane high. 320c minicraft polecat – OK Check out what kind of engines are included in the specific boxing you're going to buy (it has happened that minicraft miss mixed the sprues) 320badv minicraft polecat with modified door decals – as above My comment: it's a real shame that the welsh 720 is the only "short body" 707. We miss the 100/200 series at all in 1/144 and not only. It would be fine that someone post an article with drawings of the entire 707 family Regards Euge Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Living Legend Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 Thx Euge for the help. The 707 portion of my build is certainly the most taxing, the A300 will be also, but atleast its straight forward. One thing is for certain Ill come away from this with alot more knowledge about airliners. Anyway any help is welcome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Hingtgen Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) I honestly don't know the Welsh 720 kit--never had one. Same for the Revell "1/139" kit. Is the latter the kit that's really a Dash 80? Really, making a halfway-accurate basic -120 is pretty hard. A -120B is easy if you've got a 720 to start with. (really, a -120B is closer to a 720 than it is to a basic -120, and it's nigh-identical to a 720B, asides from fuselage length) Is the Welsh kit a 720 or 720B? For the 720B and -120B, don't forget the h.stab extensions. (many of Boeing's own drawings omit them on the -120B, but they're there) Edited July 23, 2009 by David Hingtgen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Living Legend Posted July 24, 2009 Author Share Posted July 24, 2009 All the Welsh kit says is 720/027 http://www.welshmodels.co.uk/SL61.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
72linerlover Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 The welsh is a 720 (not B. There is another listed as 720B but with no image.) That's OK for AA in the early period for aircraft delivered until end 1960. Beginning from July 1961 they were converted in 720 B Beginning from February 1961 all new delivered 720 were native B variant As regards using the welsh 720 for a 707-123B, you're on the right way, since one of the important feature is the wing glove. As regards the other features David mentions, you have enough plastic in the minicraft kit. I'd stand by for the 707-123; perhaps in the future someone will do something useful. (no rumors, just an hope) I've investigated the problem, but haven't come to a decent solution. Euge Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 The Revell kit isn't a Dash-80, it's a 707-120/120B. The fuselage length is fine, and overall it's actually a better 707 kit than either the Airfix or Minicraft (which isn't saying much). On American's 707-320B/Cs, note that they only had turbocompressor humps on the inboard pylons, unlike all other customers' 707-320B/Cs which had three of them. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.