AH-6C, MH-6 photos from AH6C-SIP-PICS ARE BACK!

[Loach Driver]

The "object" which appears to be sitting in the cabin looks like it might be the vertical tailfin or the horizontal tailplane on top. There are one or two other photos of the Muse ship in the street and it looks like it is an MH-6H that would have been very similar (if not identical) to the MH-6 lift birds flown in Mogadishu in 1993. It definitely looks like a C-30-engined MH-6 as it doesn't have Black Hole IR suppressors. It has the "Graduation Hat" antenna on the upper tailboom.

 

Unless Graham might have a contact who has the info regarding the serial, it might be difficult to nail it down. I posted up requests on Facebook and elsewhere with no success.

 

LD. 

[FM-Whip]

On 11/14/2016 at 8:24 AM, Loach Driver said:

The "object" which appears to be sitting in the cabin looks like it might be the vertical tailfin or the horizontal tailplane on top. There are one or two other photos of the Muse ship in the street and it looks like it is an MH-6H that would have been very similar (if not identical) to the MH-6 lift birds flown in Mogadishu in 1993. It definitely looks like a C-30-engined MH-6 as it doesn't have Black Hole IR suppressors. It has the "Graduation Hat" antenna on the upper tailboom.

 

Unless Graham might have a contact who has the info regarding the serial, it might be difficult to nail it down. I posted up requests on Facebook and elsewhere with no success.

 

LD. 

 

I've seen three other photos of this aircraft.  They show the tail feathers broken off right before where the vertical stabilizer is mounted.  I believe the photo above shows the vertical stabilizer set horizontally in the right door, with the top of the stabilizer to the left.  The other photos seem to show the mangled remains of the horizontal stabilizer hanging off the back of the vertical stab,  hidden behind the rounded mass to the top of the stab, at extreme left above.

 

When I first saw the photo above many, many years ago I thought that what I was seeing was some sort of wing with a winch attached.

 

Edit: photos from the net added.  Not my copyright, fair use only.  Copyright retained by respective owners:

 

 

 

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

 

 

Edited November 16, 2016 by FM-Whip

[Floyd S. Werner, Jr.]

I can't make out any tail number or other markings.  An AH-6H.  Hmmm.  Not familiar with that version and the differences with a J.  Little Birds are really confusing and always evolving. 

Floyd

[11bee]

On 11/14/2016 at 9:34 PM, FM-Whip said:

 

 

 

 

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

 

 

Nice pic John, thanks for sharing.  Looks like the grunts just shoved everything into the back to make it "tow worthy" by the M113 in the foreground.  Would make for a nice diorama.  I really like the flame job on the car off to the right. 

 

Looks like some sort of non-standard fitting alongside the pilot's "greenhouse" window.  Also looks like there is some sort of green marking on the tailboom under the satnav antenna.  If you stare at it hard enough, it almost looks like a series of numbers. 

[Floyd S. Werner, Jr.]

4 hours ago, 11bee said:

Nice pic John, thanks for sharing.  Looks like the grunts just shoved everything into the back to make it "tow worthy" by the M113 in the foreground.  Would make for a nice diorama.  I really like the flame job on the car off to the right. 

 

Looks like some sort of non-standard fitting alongside the pilot's "greenhouse" window.  Also looks like there is some sort of green marking on the tailboom under the satnav antenna.  If you stare at it hard enough, it almost looks like a series of numbers. 

That 'green marking' is actually an antenna.  You are looking at a terrible picture but it is highlighted with the sun from above.  not sure about the item above the cockpit it looks like the framing for the overhead greenhouse has just pulled up. 

Floyd

Edited November 16, 2016 by Floyd S. Werner, Jr.
wrong words

[Loach Driver]

On 11/16/2016 at 1:34 PM, Floyd S. Werner, Jr. said:

I can't make out any tail number or other markings.  An AH-6H.  Hmmm.  Not familiar with that version and the differences with a J.  Little Birds are really confusing and always evolving. 

Floyd

Floyd, the MH-6H is very similar to the MH-6J which was in use from about 1994 until the introduction of the A/MH-6M Mission-Enhanced Little Bird in the mid-2000's. The MH-6H was an upgrade of the MH-6E which features extensively in GT's various sets of photos. The main portion of the upgrade from "E" to "H" was the introduction of the Hughes/MD530F main rotor blades, tail rotor blades and gearbox combined with the Allison 250 C-30 engine. The "H" versions in service between 1988/89 and 1994/95 featured different radios and various other systems with no standardization across the fleet. The decision was then made to standardize radios, other avionics, RWRs etc across the fleet and the new standard across the fleet was designated MH-6J and AH-6J respectively. 

 

This is my understanding of the "H" and "J" versions of the Little Bird based on the various books and documents available on the history of the LB. I could, of course, be completely incorrect too! Nothing with the Little Birds is ever straight forward.

 

Thanks for that new photo, John.

 

LD.    

[FM-Whip]

8 hours ago, Loach Driver said:

Floyd, the MH-6H is very similar to the MH-6J which was in use from about 1994 until the introduction of the A/MH-6M Mission-Enhanced Little Bird in the mid-2000's. The MH-6H was an upgrade of the MH-6E which features extensively in GT's various sets of photos. The main portion of the upgrade from "E" to "H" was the introduction of the Hughes/MD530F main rotor blades, tail rotor blades and gearbox combined with the Allison 250 C-30 engine. The "H" versions in service between 1988/89 and 1994/95 featured different radios and various other systems with no standardization across the fleet. The decision was then made to standardize radios, other avionics, RWRs etc across the fleet and the new standard across the fleet was designated MH-6J and AH-6J respectively. 

 

This is my understanding of the "H" and "J" versions of the Little Bird based on the various books and documents available on the history of the LB. I could, of course, be completely incorrect too! Nothing with the Little Birds is ever straight forward.

 

Thanks for that new photo, John.

 

LD.    

 

Circa 1996 I talked to the then-Little Bird project officer at the Andrews AFB airshow and he basically told me exactly what you write above - prior to the J models, there was little commonality, with many pre-J airframes having mods not found on other airframes, many being mission-specific.  He said the J was the first version to  have common wiring, for example.

 

As far as the photos above that I put in my post, they do not belong to me - I found them on the net and included them under the "fair use" copyright doctrine.  The larger color one is credited to a well-known special ops operator who was on the Acid Gambit mission.

 

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

[AH6C-SIP]

Checking with some who were there for additional info.  GT

 

[AH6C-SIP]

All, below is what a friend of mine, who was on this mission, passed on to me.  

 

GT - that looks like the A Company bird that crashed in the street after taking off from the Modelo Prison with hostage Kurt Muse on board.

If you go to this website, scroll down a little more than halfway where it describes "The Rescue". I think Don Fox was flying it.

 

http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=48563

[Floyd S. Werner, Jr.]

Don't see where it mentions the type of Little Bird.  Nice write up though.  I have read Muse's book and he doesn't mention what type of LB it is.

Floyd

[Loach Driver]

No, sadly no mention of either exact type or serial number. Looking at the available photos of the Muse LB, she appears to be an MH-6H and is pretty much identical to the lift birds from Mogadishu/1993. The serial number of the Muse LB is probably recorded in a still-classified after-action Army Report. If anyone has a current contact at the 160th, it might be possible to see if they could get access to the report for this little bit of info. Maybe the 160th Press Officer could help, if they have one attached to the unit.

 

LD.

[11bee]

1 hour ago, Loach Driver said:

No, sadly no mention of either exact type or serial number. Looking at the available photos of the Muse LB, she appears to be an MH-6H and is pretty much identical to the lift birds from Mogadishu/1993. The serial number of the Muse LB is probably recorded in a still-classified after-action Army Report. If anyone has a current contact at the 160th, it might be possible to see if they could get access to the report for this little bit of info. Maybe the 160th Press Officer could help, if they have one attached to the unit.

 

LD.

If you really want this info, I'd suggest filing a FOIA request.  It's online, easy to do and best of all (in my world at least), it's free.   I sent one in asking for cockpit pics for my AH-6C build.   Within about a month, I had a couple of nice shots sent to me.  I'm actually thinking about submitting another one, asking for cockpit shots of early FLIR-equipped LB's.  Need this info for an upcoming build.  Still don't have any detail pics on how the FLIR display(s) were mounted to the instrument panel and what the display itself actually looked like.   LB's have been using FLIR's since the 80's, gotta believe that this info is no longer classified.   Good luck.

 

http://www.soc.mil/FOIA/FOIA.html

 

 

[11bee]

Found this while surfing FB.  Assuming it's an MH-6M, sporting some nice nose art.   Wish I could make out what is written below 631.

 

Edited November 25, 2016 by 11bee

[Sarathi S.]

Saw that picture a while back on London Bridge Trading's Facebook, but it disappeared.  Glad to see it again.

[Floyd S. Werner, Jr.]

It says No Fear.  And it is available on the Night Stalkers-Late Additions.

Floyd

[Floyd S. Werner, Jr.]

On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 8:53 AM, Loach Driver said:

No, sadly no mention of either exact type or serial number. Looking at the available photos of the Muse LB, she appears to be an MH-6H and is pretty much identical to the lift birds from Mogadishu/1993. The serial number of the Muse LB is probably recorded in a still-classified after-action Army Report. If anyone has a current contact at the 160th, it might be possible to see if they could get access to the report for this little bit of info. Maybe the 160th Press Officer could help, if they have one attached to the unit.

 

LD.

If I could get the PAO to contact me about the CD I sent back in August and haven't heard anything about it since I'd be happy.  I'm sure getting this information would be a pain like the approval.  I keep the hope that they are putting together some historical photos for me to use in the book.  But I'm not holding my breath.  Anybody have the direct phone line?  I couldn't find it on the Campbell phone directory.  We were dealing with SSG Lowers.

Floyd

[rotorwash]

 

Here's a little bit bigger photo of the one posted earlier.

   Ray

 

[rotorwash]

This is supposed to be from Just Cause and shows the black hole exhaust.  Sorry but I have no idea who to credit for the photo as it was on another forum.

   Ray

 

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by rotorwash

[rotorwash]

This one is supposed to be Granada but it also has the black hole exhaust.  Once again no idea who to credit it to.

   Ray

 

 

[rotorwash]

This is from Pinterest but it sure looks like the Muse bird to me.

  Ray

 

 

[Loach Driver]

Nice find with that last photo, Ray. Thanks for posting it.

 

LD.

[AH6C-SIP]

The picture above with the two dudes, one with an AK looks like Grenada.  Shape of the people pods, scoops, etc.  Almost sure its an A Co aircraft circa Oct 83.  I was there flying my AH-6C.  Almost got shot down, but it hung together to get back to where we were staging.  

 

BTW, whats up with the photo file upload restrictions.

[rotorwash]

GT,

  There are no restrictions as long as you link to a file from Photobucket or some other image sharing site.  Only if you upload directly from your computer.  I have to say though that a >1mb limit is pretty darn puny.

    Ray

[AH6C-SIP]

http://s1172.photobucket.com/user/stevensgt33/media/sep8112_zpsa94257ba.jpg.html?o=107Thanks Ray, I'll use Photobucket links going forward.

Edited December 5, 2016 by AH6C-SIP

[rotorwash]

8 hours ago, AH6C-SIP said:

http://s1172.photobucket.com/user/stevensgt33/media/sep8112_zpsa94257ba.jpg.html?o=107Thanks Ray, I'll use Photobucket links going forward.

GT,

  Just copy the "Direct" link to the left of the photo and paste it in your reply to see the image. Like this.

    Ray