AH-6C, MH-6 photos from AH6C-SIP-PICS ARE BACK!

[Mr. Ed]

I am looking for anything on MH-6C 69-16054. I know it came from the 160th, and was one of their original AH-6's. I have located a few pictures of it and a report detailing WSPS testing that it did on the 80's. It belongs to a Sheriff's Office in Arizona now, and will be used for drug interdiction, search and rescues, etc. I take care of this aircraft currently. Thanks.

[Loach Driver]

I am looking for anything on MH-6C 69-16054. I know it came from the 160th, and was one of their original AH-6's. I have located a few pictures of it and a report detailing WSPS testing that it did on the 80's. It belongs to a Sheriff's Office in Arizona now, and will be used for drug interdiction, search and rescues, etc. I take care of this aircraft currently. Thanks.

Any chance you could take some photos of it and post them up? We'd love to see how she looks today. I think 16054 was used as a test-ship for any new modifications they were making to the AH-6C. I think there are photos of it in this thread (or maybe in the Army Test Board thread) where it is fitted with an air data boom. Thanks.

LD.

[Mr. Ed]

I tried to post a picture last night, but I am not a forum familiar person. The "insert image" icon asks for a web address, so I'm guessing I need to put it out on the web and link to it?

I did see the pics of it with the test boom and instrumentation in the back, I like the 80's hair and clothes!

We are leaving it black, by the way.

[11bee]

I tried to post a picture last night, but I am not a forum familiar person. The "insert image" icon asks for a web address, so I'm guessing I need to put it out on the web and link to it?

I did see the pics of it with the test boom and instrumentation in the back, I like the 80's hair and clothes!

We are leaving it black, by the way.

The easiest way is to upload your pics to a photobucket account (or similar site). Then just click on the picture's "IMG" tag and paste into your forum post. I'd love to see some picks of that ship as well.

Regards,

John

Edited July 4, 2012 by 11bee

[Mr. Ed]

OK, try these:

The one on the truck is when it left Kansas City PD, and the other is yesterday. It looks like the tail rotor blade is broken, but I took the picture with my phone, and it is running.

[JackMurphyRGR]

Gents, this picture was recently forwarded to me having come from someone's fan page on Facebook. What in the world is this?!?! A day-time little bird? I recall from my aircraft familiarization and from working around these aircraft that the black box in the back of the helicopter is for linked ammunition for the mini-gun. What do you guys think?

[11bee]

That is a very cool picture. Never seen any Army helo in that scheme except for a few Nat'l Guard AH-64's from a few years ago. Any idea what the time frame is? I wonder if it is a one-off scheme or they are transitioning to something new but either way it looks like it is based on the current USMC scheme.

FWIW, way back in the 80's, the 160th painted a few MH-60's in something similar when they deployed to the Persian Gulf. They wanted their helo's to blend in with the Navy SH-60's.

I'm not an expert, can't tell if it is a J or an M model but it looks to be set up as an MH with the planks. I think that item in the rear cabin is a fuel cell, not ammo related.

Thanks for posting!

Edited August 22, 2012 by 11bee

[doupnik]

Thanks for posting that pic! If only we could find a few more like it.

That is a very cool picture. Never seen any Army helo in that scheme except for a few Nat'l Guard AH-64's from a few years ago. Any idea what the time frame is? I wonder if it is a one-off scheme or they are transitioning to something new but either way it looks like it is based on the current USMC scheme.

FWIW, way back in the 80's, the 160th painted a few MH-60's in something similar when they deployed to the Persian Gulf. They wanted their helo's to blend in with the Navy SH-60's.

I'm not an expert, can't tell if it is a J or an M model but it looks to be set up as an MH with the planks. I think that item in the rear cabin is a fuel cell, not ammo related.

Thanks for posting!

It looks like a M, the beefier vert stab is a clue. The 160th had, or has, a MH-60K and a MH-47 in a similar paint scheme.

mason

[FM-Whip]

Gents, this picture was recently forwarded to me having come from someone's fan page on Facebook. What in the world is this?!?! A day-time little bird? I recall from my aircraft familiarization and from working around these aircraft that the black box in the back of the helicopter is for linked ammunition for the mini-gun. What do you guys think?

AH/MH-6M 25377. Check out what's hanging on the plank.

Here's a photo of it in black:

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

[11bee]

AH/MH-6M 25377. Check out what's hanging on the plank.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

I give up, what is hanging on the plank? Can't tell from either picture.

As Mason mentioned, a while back, a single MH-47 and MH-60 where both painted in the USMC grey scheme. It seems like it might have been some sort of trial.

I wonder if they did the same with a single Littlebird and this is first time a picture of it made it's way onto the net?

[Par429]

I give up, what is hanging on the plank? Can't tell from either picture.

Hey-

In the black photo, it looks like an M279 Hellfire launcher, not sure if I see anything in the gray photo. Also in the black photo it looks like it has some orange gear onboard. In the Navy/Marines, this means test instrumentation, not sure if it means the same in the Army. Was this bird on a test flt of some kind?

Regards,

Phil

[FM-Whip]

Hey-

In the black photo, it looks like an M279 Hellfire launcher, not sure if I see anything in the gray photo. Also in the black photo it looks like it has some orange gear onboard. In the Navy/Marines, this means test instrumentation, not sure if it means the same in the Army. Was this bird on a test flt of some kind?

Regards,

Phil

In the black photo, the rack is an M279. In the gray photo, the gear hanging off the (thin) plank appears to be the lightweight seat system manufactured by CFD that has rarely been seen. The seat front end folds back, the seat rear end folds forward, and the entire contraption then folds vertically/sideways into the back compartment. There are several sets of things that have been hung off the various planks or rear compartment cross-members that have yet to be seen by the public, including at least two motorcycle carrier systems that I know of.

Orange-colored gear signifies test equipment/instrumentation/wiring in the Army also.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

[JackMurphyRGR]

Mind blown...

[Loach Driver]

Could it be that this MELB might have been involved in some kind of maritime-based operation, maybe an anti-piracy mission off the Horn of Africa or perhaps some work against those drug-running submersibles from South America? It might also just be an experimental paint scheme. Who knows? Hopefully the full story will come out in the end. (I think I still prefer it in the all-black scheme, though!)

LD.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Loach Driver

[FM-Whip]

Could it be that this MELB might have been involved in some kind of maritime-based operation, maybe an anti-piracy mission off the Horn of Africa or perhaps some work against those drug-running submersibles from South America? It might also just be an experimental paint scheme. Who knows? Hopefully the full story will come out in the end. (I think I still prefer in the all-black scheme, though!)

LD.

I think the photo is somewhat dated. I bet that when the 160th painted the MH-60 and MH-47 in gray for test purposes they also did this MH-6. Also, other photos I've seen tend to make me think this particular airframe is or has been used as a test platform.

I've been looking at Little Bird photos for a long time, and I've come to the (maybe unwarranted) conclusion that certain airframes (especially the ones exhibited at airshows) are reserved for mostly training purposes and are somewhat stripped down in relation to their more operational cousins out in the field.

Thus there exists or has existed several things about these aircraft that still have not been seen publicly - we have not seen all the plank/tank designs, nor have we seen all the weapons that have been fitted/tested. The "sugar-scoop" IR exhaust has not been seen close-up. Multiple generations of FLIRs (and their mountings) have come and gone. There are also some mysterious antenna configurations. In the last 3 years I've seen 3 different external fuel tank designs being used. Photos of the gray AH/MH-6s used in the Gulf have also not been made public. Nor have the ones of Little Birds fitted with inflatable floats. Early FRIES gear, caving ladders, etc - there is all sorts of hardware I'd like to see.

Also I believe that the 160th Little Birds and the Ft. Eustis spook aircraft (and probably yet another unit) share a common technology base (along with black funding) and that there is a central office that controls the design of both the overt and the covert special ops aviation items across multiple agencies. For example there are other "plank" designs in use by non-160th operators that probably came out of the same design shop.

As Steve Emerson wrote in "Secret Warriors: Inside the Covert Military Operations of the Reagan Era", the 160th is the most publicly viewable of the special ops aviation community and gets the most attention, but they aren't the only ones who use Little Birds.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

[11bee]

I think the photo is somewhat dated. I bet that when the 160th painted the MH-60 and MH-47 in gray for test purposes they also did this MH-6. Also, other photos I've seen tend to make me think this particular airframe is or has been used as a test platform.

I've been looking at Little Bird photos for a long time, and I've come to the (maybe unwarranted) conclusion that certain airframes (especially the ones exhibited at airshows) are reserved for mostly training purposes and are somewhat stripped down in relation to their more operational cousins out in the field.

Thus there exists or has existed several things about these aircraft that still have not been seen publicly - we have not seen all the plank/tank designs, nor have we seen all the weapons that have been fitted/tested. The "sugar-scoop" IR exhaust has not been seen close-up. Multiple generations of FLIRs (and their mountings) have come and gone. There are also some mysterious antenna configurations. In the last 3 years I've seen 3 different external fuel tank designs being used. Photos of the gray AH/MH-6s used in the Gulf have also not been made public. Nor have the ones of Little Birds fitted with inflatable floats. Early FRIES gear, caving ladders, etc - there is all sorts of hardware I'd like to see.

Also I believe that the 160th Little Birds and the Ft. Eustis spook aircraft (and probably yet another unit) share a common technology base (along with black funding) and that there is a central office that controls the design of both the overt and the covert special ops aviation items across multiple agencies. For example there are other "plank" designs in use by non-160th operators that probably came out of the same design shop.

As Steve Emerson wrote in "Secret Warriors: Inside the Covert Military Operations of the Reagan Era", the 160th is the most publicly viewable of the special ops aviation community and gets the most attention, but they aren't the only ones who use Little Birds.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

Still find it somewhat surprising that with all the non-160th folks who appear to be have flown or still are flying Littlebirds, only one picture (posted here a while back) of a "black" LB has surfaced and that picture was nearly 25 years old.

Interesting comment about gray AH/MH-6's flying in the gulf, I don't suppose you would be at liberty to say whether these are recent developments or go back a ways?

[thatguy96]

Interesting comment about gray AH/MH-6's flying in the gulf, I don't suppose you would be at liberty to say whether these are recent developments or go back a ways?

I think he was talking about the gray painted aircraft operated by Task Force 160 in the Gulf during US operations in response to the Tanker War (Operation Preying Mantis, etc).

[FM-Whip]

I think he was talking about the gray painted aircraft operated by Task Force 160 in the Gulf during US operations in response to the Tanker War (Operation Preying Mantis, etc).

Correct - I meant the Tanker War.

As far as the "other" Little Birds, the two I've seen were painted in civilian colors (metallic blue/silver). So there might be photos of them out there, but you wouldn't necessarily know who they belonged to. Also, they change their colors, and their registration numbers. They get moved overseas, hung with operational gear, do their stuff, then come back. Few opportunities for photography by snoopy civilians....

I tracked down the address of the company that "owns" the 530 that was talked about earlier - it's a post office box mail drop, and the company is not a registered business in the state.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

[FM-Whip]

Some new Little Bird photos on Flickr:

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

[rotorwash]

Thanks John.

Ray

[Loach Driver]

Hi John. Thanks for posting these up. Do these two ships feature on the usual list of MELBs that are photographed regularly or are they new to "go public"?

LD.

[FM-Whip]

Hi John. Thanks for posting these up. Do these two ships feature on the usual list of MELBs that are photographed regularly or are they new to "go public"?

LD.

I don't know. My only observation is that we in the public tend to see the same airframes over and over. I think that's because certain airframes probably stay overseas more for operational reasons, and the few that stay in CONUS for training, refit/rehab, testing, etc get farmed out to airshows and for other PR purposes (such as NASCAR races) when they are available. One of the SOAR pilots I talked to told me they get tasked for airshows by the Pentagon, at a high level, and they have to do it unless there's an over-riding operational need. The regiment itself I think would probably like to be doing other things.

John Hairell (tpn18@yaqhoo.com)

[11bee]

I don't know. My only observation is that we in the public tend to see the same airframes over and over. I think that's because certain airframes probably stay overseas more for operational reasons, and the few that stay in CONUS for training, refit/rehab, testing, etc get farmed out to airshows and for other PR purposes (such as NASCAR races) when they are available. One of the SOAR pilots I talked to told me they get tasked for airshows by the Pentagon, at a high level, and they have to do it unless there's an over-riding operational need. The regiment itself I think would probably like to be doing other things.

John Hairell (tpn18@yaqhoo.com)

At some point when I get some down time, I'll have to check and see if the pictures out there of -6's doing PR type events (air shows, demos, etc) are of the same few aircraft or not.

Any thoughts on whether the 160th plays the "velcro serial number game" where serial numbers are changed often for OPSEC purposes?

[FM-Whip]

At some point when I get some down time, I'll have to check and see if the pictures out there of -6's doing PR type events (air shows, demos, etc) are of the same few aircraft or not.

Any thoughts on whether the 160th plays the "velcro serial number game" where serial numbers are changed often for OPSEC purposes?

I don't know one way or the other whether they do that or not. I've heard it discussed and read it online, and there are those of a conspiratorial bent who seem to think it's true. Since the 160th has come out more in the open (certainly since the BHD film) the rumors have died down. I've not seen any proof of it.

The 160th is well aware of people watching serial numbers though. I talked to a couple of pilots about it and they verified they know people are looking at their aircraft serials. The aircraft actually all used to be listed on the monthly "Gold Book" paper listing that the Army keeps of the central aircraft serial database, but interestingly the Little Bird aircraft were eventually removed from the listing when the Army discovered that the listings were being leaked. They were never actually classified. So the Little Birds got dropped off the Gold Book, but the rest of the SOA aircraft remained. Simultaneously with this if you looked at the Army budget for each fiscal year, you could look at SOA line items, but for the most part Little Bird funding was not shown. But funding was shown for MH-47s and MH-60s. To me this is just more proof that Little Birds are funded and handled separately, and that the budgeting is either hidden within other line items, or it's "black" and is either shared or handled by "other agencies". I'm talking specifically about airframe purchases here, not updates/upgrades.

On the two AH-6Js that I've looked at up close and in detail, on neither one of them could I find a constructor's plate, at least not in the usual places.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

[11bee]

I To me this is just more proof that Little Birds are funded and handled separately, and that the budgeting is either hidden within other line items, or it's "black" and is either shared or handled by "other agencies". I'm talking specifically about airframe purchases here, not updates/upgrades.

On the two AH-6Js that I've looked at up close and in detail, on neither one of them could I find a constructor's plate, at least not in the usual places.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

Interesting... kind of supports the theory that there are other, more camera-shy users of Littlebirds and those groups and the 160th are possibly all under the same management program.

I think we are overdue to a definitive book on this subject. Probably can't go into much detail regarding recent operations but I'd be curious if some of the 80's uses by other agencies would not be available via FOIA. I would also think that the early combat history of the 160th A/MH-6's in Grenada, Panama and Gulf War 1 should be declassified by now. Will certainly make for a fascinating read. Even if they can't go too far into the operational side, even a detailed history of all the airframe / avionics / weapons developments of the Littlebird series would make for interesting reading (at least for a helo nerd like myself).

On a completely unrelated note, are Littlebirds deployed in Afghanistan? I've seen plenty of pictures of 160th Blackhawks and Chinooks over there, not sure I've seen any pics of Littlebirds. I know that they are typically more camera shy than the other 160th helo but I saw plenty of pictures of these helos in Iraq.