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AH-6C, MH-6 photos from AH6C-SIP-PICS ARE BACK!


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Interesting... kind of supports the theory that there are other, more camera-shy users of Littlebirds and those groups and the 160th are possibly all under the same management program.

I think we are overdue to a definitive book on this subject. Probably can't go into much detail regarding recent operations but I'd be curious if some of the 80's uses by other agencies would not be available via FOIA. I would also think that the early combat history of the 160th A/MH-6's in Grenada, Panama and Gulf War 1 should be declassified by now. Will certainly make for a fascinating read. Even if they can't go too far into the operational side, even a detailed history of all the airframe / avionics / weapons developments of the Littlebird series would make for interesting reading (at least for a helo nerd like myself).

On a completely unrelated note, are Littlebirds deployed in Afghanistan? I've seen plenty of pictures of 160th Blackhawks and Chinooks over there, not sure I've seen any pics of Littlebirds. I know that they are typically more camera shy than the other 160th helo but I saw plenty of pictures of these helos in Iraq.

A history of the 160th was written by the Federal Research Division of the Library of Congress and is available on-line from multiple venues. It covers all the well known actions from the formation of the Task Force onwards to about 2001 but does not cover any of the more deeply covert operations. 160th is a Tier 1 unit so not only responds to Army/special ops requirements but also to the National Command Authority. Most of the on-line versions have the graphics redacted. Not that you are missing much of anything. If you go to http://www.governmentattic.org/ and do a search on "Histories of the US Army 160th Special Operations" or "160th SOAR" you will find the historical document and several additional annual historical reports which bring the info up to circa 2004 but which pretty much have been sanitized. Interestingly these guys at governmentattic.org did an FOIA request for all the other FOIA requests to SOCOM and one of my requests shows up.

As far as Afghanistan, yes, Little Birds do operate (and have been photographed) there.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

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Hi All, Looks like you all are on quite a quest here. Keep up the good detective work. I've taken on new role, so please note my new email addy for your Contacts. gstevens@iomax.net

Best regards to all, GT

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Just found these AH-6i pictures and figured this might be a good place for them. Apparently the Army's Non-Standard Rotary Wing Aircraft Project Management Office is helping with the FMS transfer of these helicopters to Saudi Arabia. This entity also helped in the FMS transfer of the MD 530Fs to Afghanistan and armed Bell 407s to Iraq. Click on the pics for hi-res.

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Edited by thatguy96
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Like this site, I do have some comments, 1. the photo with the G and F flying together is one of three photos taken from that gun run, the first showed one rocket out, the second showed 2 rockets out, the 3rd is the photo you see here with 3 rockets out, this was our first G model in the unit, if you look close you can see how much shorter the instrument panel is than on other models, this was only on the F and G (both gun only models), gun guys liked this lower instrument panel because of the greater cross panel view/lift guys did not like this instrument panel because it was a little wider and they felt it somewhat blocked their forward/down view for landing in tight areas, no other models have this lower instrument panel, I'm the guy firing the rockets in the photo and the photo mentioned with 3 little birds in formation behind a similar looking boat is from this same trip/boat, I'm the lead aircraft in that photo. 2. The G was the only model used by us in the "Tanker War", Panama, and the first Gulf War, 1 mini/1 7 shot rocket pod for the tanker war, 1 mini/1 19 shot pod for Panama, plank with 2 x mini/2 x 7 shot pods and/or 1 x mini/1 x 2 shot hellfire rail for the 1st Gulf War, I flew them as described. 3. We did not use grey 6's in the "Tanker War". Hope this helps keep the historical record straight. Thanks and well done for a great site for those who love this aircraft.

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Like this site, I do have some comments, 1. the photo with the G and F flying together is one of three photos taken from that gun run, the first showed one rocket out, the second showed 2 rockets out, the 3rd is the photo you see here with 3 rockets out, this was our first G model in the unit, if you look close you can see how much shorter the instrument panel is than on other models, this was only on the F and G (both gun only models), gun guys liked this lower instrument panel because of the greater cross panel view/lift guys did not like this instrument panel because it was a little wider and they felt it somewhat blocked their forward/down view for landing in tight areas, no other models have this lower instrument panel, I'm the guy firing the rockets in the photo and the photo mentioned with 3 little birds in formation behind a similar looking boat is from this same trip/boat, I'm the lead aircraft in that photo. 2. The G was the only model used by us in the "Tanker War", Panama, and the first Gulf War, 1 mini/1 7 shot rocket pod for the tanker war, 1 mini/1 19 shot pod for Panama, plank with 2 x mini/2 x 7 shot pods and/or 1 x mini/1 x 2 shot hellfire rail for the 1st Gulf War, I flew them as described. 3. We did not use grey 6's in the "Tanker War". Hope this helps keep the historical record straight. Thanks and well done for a great site for those who love this aircraft.

I talked to the Little Bird project officer circa 1999-2000 and he was telling me of the tug of war between the lift and guns pilots as far as the types of panels ("T" versus "I") they preferred. Interesting stuff...he was also talking about how prior to the J model there were no two aircraft that were exactly the same.

As far as grey 6s I've seen photos of them in the Gulf, operating off the Hercules.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

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Like this site, I do have some comments, 1. the photo with the G and F flying together is one of three photos taken from that gun run, the first showed one rocket out, the second showed 2 rockets out, the 3rd is the photo you see here with 3 rockets out, this was our first G model in the unit, if you look close you can see how much shorter the instrument panel is than on other models, this was only on the F and G (both gun only models), gun guys liked this lower instrument panel because of the greater cross panel view/lift guys did not like this instrument panel because it was a little wider and they felt it somewhat blocked their forward/down view for landing in tight areas, no other models have this lower instrument panel, I'm the guy firing the rockets in the photo and the photo mentioned with 3 little birds in formation behind a similar looking boat is from this same trip/boat, I'm the lead aircraft in that photo. 2. The G was the only model used by us in the "Tanker War", Panama, and the first Gulf War, 1 mini/1 7 shot rocket pod for the tanker war, 1 mini/1 19 shot pod for Panama, plank with 2 x mini/2 x 7 shot pods and/or 1 x mini/1 x 2 shot hellfire rail for the 1st Gulf War, I flew them as described. 3. We did not use grey 6's in the "Tanker War". Hope this helps keep the historical record straight. Thanks and well done for a great site for those who love this aircraft.

This thread is probably the best resource out there for early Littlebirds. I haven't seen anything else in print or online that comes close. Thanks for adding to it. If you have any pictures or additional info, please feel free to post. If I ever get my workbench cleared, I plan on building a G model "Tanker War" AH-6 (or that "Seaspray" helo that was posted a while back if I can ever get more details on it). Definitely an interesting period in 160th history. Too bad about Grey AH-6's not being used, that would have made for a pretty unique model. I'd love to see some pictures of AH-6G's with Hellfires. Don't think I've ever seen any pics of G's in this configuration.

Thank you for your service.

John

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This thread is probably the best resource out there for early Littlebirds. I haven't seen anything else in print or online that comes close. Thanks for adding to it. If you have any pictures or additional info, please feel free to post. If I ever get my workbench cleared, I plan on building a G model "Tanker War" AH-6 (or that "Seaspray" helo that was posted a while back if I can ever get more details on it). Definitely an interesting period in 160th history. Too bad about Grey AH-6's not being used, that would have made for a pretty unique model. I'd love to see some pictures of AH-6G's with Hellfires. Don't think I've ever seen any pics of G's in this configuration.

Thank you for your service.

John

Good choice on the G model build from the tanker war time period, it was and still is my favorite model, really good solid/stable/reliable gun bird, if you build it, here's a note on "making it real", because we were only using 1 x mini (left side) and 1 x 7 shot rocket pod, we early in the event carried 7 more rockets in the back to allow us to land anywhere that we could and reload our rockets without going back to our launching point which may be quite some distance away. Reload was very minimal amount of time.

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I talked to the Little Bird project officer circa 1999-2000 and he was telling me of the tug of war between the lift and guns pilots as far as the types of panels ("T" versus "I") they preferred. Interesting stuff...he was also talking about how prior to the J model there were no two aircraft that were exactly the same.

As far as grey 6s I've seen photos of them in the Gulf, operating off the Hercules.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

Sorry, you will not be able to show any photos of grey 6s on the Hercules that were "ours", they did not exist, I am 100% correct on that, any photos you may see are not from that event and/or are photoshoped. By the way, there may be more but I know of only 3 photos from that event showing 6s and none are gray. You will be able to show photos of grey 60s, a 6 and a 60 are not the same aircraft, go back and check your photos, the grey 6 shown on this site is a M model which did not exist during the tanker war.

To clarify my posting a little more, I would like to say that the statement "The G was the only model used by us in the "Tanker War", Panama, and the first Gulf War" referred only to the gun aircraft, the lift aircraft used along side the G would have been E or H models, these models/aircraft were phased in at different times and could be seen together at different times (example is the photo on this site of G and F flying together). The way it works is you have AH-6C, MH-6C and EH-6C aircraft (sister aircraft), (I saw a EH-6C but never flew one, nothing special, like a MH-6C with extra antenaes, one antenae was cigar shaped about 1 1/2 foot long and on the bottom of the aircraft about where the cargo hook was located, I have no positive proof of what it did, I never saw or heard of a EH-6E or EH-6H model), then you have MH-6E (not electronic version just model number) and AH-6F which are basicly the same aircraft (sister ships) except for instrument panel type (T on AH or I on MH), the E model had mounts for devices that were for the MH lift mission and the F model had specific mounts/wiring for the AH attack mission, then you have MH-6H and the AH-6G which are basicly the same aircraft (sister ships) except for instrument panel type (T on AH or I on MH), the H model had mounts for devices that were for the MH lift mission and the G model had specific mounts/wiring for the AH attack mission, then we got smarter and you have the J model which had both mounts for devices that were for the MH lift mission and mounts/wiring for the AH attack mission, so a J model could be either a AH or MH based on what you needed it to do, the J instrument panel was the I type (MH pilot was project officer so we got a MH I panel its that simple), if you have never flown a T panel then I doubt you would be bothered by a I panel in the gun role. Mini guns were hung on E models for the tanker war using the F model Mini gun mount and 1 x mini and 1 by 7 shot rocket pod were mounted on H models during the 1st Gulf War using F model mounts (since wiring was not built into airframe, the required cabling was visible), I flew one of those in the war a couple of times. We did not arm MH's in Panama and I'm not sure which model was used but I would guess with a high proability that it was a H model. There was never "Velcro" numbers on these aircraft no matter how many theorys are out there on that, why bother. Sometimes the simple answer is the correct/best answer. Hopefully this helps clear out a lot of questions on these early models.

Edited by Killing Stone
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If anybody is interested :) , there are 2 different models pictured in the image of the birds firing rockets. The lead is an AH-6F and the wing is an AH-6G. Note the different exhausts.

For general info, the tail rotor gear box is also extended on the G and can be seen in this photo

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AH-6F%20landing%20EGABRAG.JPG

I was just looking through Wayne Mutza's book "Loach" and on page 85 there is a photo of three AH-6s hovering behind the landing pad of a ship. The pad is white with red markings. Given the similar layout of the landing pad in that photo (in the book) and the photo above, maybe they are of the same vessel?

Graham, Doug and Ray; Thanks for all the great images and information in this thread. If there are more photos and stories in the vault, please keep 'em coming!

LD.

Same ship/pic from same trip

Edited by Killing Stone
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The ongoing discussion on the mythical EH-6B prompted me to do yet another Google search on it in hopes of finding something. Nothing useful found but I did come across a reference to another version that I never heard of, the EH-6E. See below:

EH-6E: Special Forces radio relay and C3I variant of MD369D with T-tail and 420 SHP Allison 250 C20R engine. Three built, based on 500D/500MD but with four-bladed main rotor?. Shrouded, side-mounted engine exhausts?

The info stated that after service, they were converted to standard MH-6 configuration.

Just wondering if anyone has info on this version?

John

Edit - the above referenced google search also led me to another picture I've never seen before:

This pic is a MH-6E model, not used in Grenada invasion, most likely a training event with simulated injuries.

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/9994/dfsn8410848tt3.jpg

I believe that this was during the Grenada invasion and shows an MH-6(?) offloading wounded on a USN helo carrier.

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Good choice on the G model build from the tanker war time period, it was and still is my favorite model, really good solid/stable/reliable gun bird, if you build it, here's a note on "making it real", because we were only using 1 x mini (left side) and 1 x 7 shot rocket pod, we early in the event carried 7 more rockets in the back to allow us to land anywhere that we could and reload our rockets without going back to our launching point which may be quite some distance away. Reload was very minimal amount of time.

Great info. GT (the original poster who started this tread) mentioned that on occasion, they would strap a couple of 5 gal fuel cans in the back of their AH-6C's so they could land, top off and get a bit of extra range. A self-deploying FARP.

Not very familiar with the G, sounds like it had the same armament as the AH-6C that I built. Do you happen to know if the weapons were attached in the same way as the C model or if they had some sort of plank to mount them?

Any special equipment added to the G's for the Tanker operation? Not sure if they had FLIR mounts at that time.

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Great info. GT (the original poster who started this tread) mentioned that on occasion, they would strap a couple of 5 gal fuel cans in the back of their AH-6C's so they could land, top off and get a bit of extra range. A self-deploying FARP.

Not very familiar with the G, sounds like it had the same armament as the AH-6C that I built. Do you happen to know if the weapons were attached in the same way as the C model or if they had some sort of plank to mount them?

Any special equipment added to the G's for the Tanker operation? Not sure if they had FLIR mounts at that time.

Gt is right, we would put extra gas cans in the back of all models when we needed the range, and not just a couple, but as many as we needed 5 or 6 could be normal.

G model had same mounts as C and F models at first, later it had a "first generation" plank when looks simular but is different from later model planks, as I stated above, 1 x mini and 1 x 7 shot rocket pod for tanker war (7 additional rockets secured laterally between gun mag and aux fuel tank), 1 x mini and 1 x 19 shot rocket pod for Panama (made quick right banks but a slow left bank due to weight), and plank with 2 x mini and 2 x 7 shot rocket pods for 1st Gulf War and/or 1 x mini left side and 1 x 2 rail Hellfire on right side.

Nothing different for tanker war, as always we brought what we had and operated as we had trained, MHs carried the FLIR, G Model did not get FLIR until just before 1st Gulf War and was used in that war. A caving ladder and overwater kit would be correct for a G model during the tanker war, they would be mounted just outside on the forward right side cargo compartment door area

Edited by Killing Stone
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Gt is right, we would put extra gas cans in the back of all models when we needed the range, and not just a couple, but as many as we needed 5 or 6 could be normal.

G model had same mounts as C and F models at first, later it had a "first generation" plank when looks simular but is different from later model planks, as I stated above, 1 x mini and 1 x 7 shot rocket pod for tanker war (7 additional rockets secured laterally between gun mag and aux fuel tank), 1 x mini and 1 x 19 shot rocket pod for Panama (made quick right banks but a slow left bank due to weight), and plamk with 2 x mini and 2 x 7 shot rocket pods for 1st Gulf War and/or 1 x mini left side and 1 x 2 rail Hellfire on right side.

Nothing different for tanker war, as always we brought what we had and operated as we had trained, MHs carried the FLIR, G Model did not get FLIR until just before 1st Gulf War and was used in that war

So any weapons on a G prior to GW-1 would be mounted like this:

DSCN0221.jpg

I'm lazy by nature and scratch-building the mount for the rocket pod was a pain. I do like the thought of adding all those fuel cans / rockets in the back, definitely makes for a unique look.

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So any weapons on a G prior to GW-1 would be mounted like this:

DSCN0221.jpg

I'm lazy by nature and scratch-building the mount for the rocket pod was a pain. I do like the thought of adding all those fuel cans / rockets in the back, definitely makes for a unique look.

That would be close, looks like you even got the T tank for the aux fuel on this C model, very cool

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Sorry, you will not be able to show any photos of grey 6s on the Hercules, they did not exist, I am 100% correct on that, any photos you may see are not from that event and/or are photoshoped. By the way, there may be more but I know of only 3 photos from that event showing 6s and none are gray. You will be able to show photos of grey 60s, a 6 and a 60 are not the same aircraft, go back and check your photos, the grey 6 shown on this site is a M model which did not exist during the tanker war.

OK, let me be more specific - I have seen photos of 160th AH/MH-6s (not M models - I saw these photos before the M model even existed) operating in the Gulf in gray paint. Whatever these operations were may have been after the tanker war. I was told they were operating off of "the barge", i.e. Hercules, but it may have been an another barge. The source of the photos is unimpeachable - a person who was there.

And I do know the difference between a Little Bird and a Black Hawk....

I don't own the photos and can't post them.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

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OK, let me be more specific - I have seen photos of 160th AH/MH-6s (not M models - I saw these photos before the M model even existed) operating in the Gulf in gray paint. Whatever these operations were may have been after the tanker war. I was told they were operating off of "the barge", i.e. Hercules, but it may have been an another barge. The source of the photos is unimpeachable - a person who was there.

And I do know the difference between a Little Bird and a Black Hawk....

I don't own the photos and can't post them.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

No issues here, I'm not trying to start a debate, I was there (a lot) and I can tell you for a fact (100%) that "we" did not have gray 6s on the Hercules or the Windbrown (the other barge) or Naval ships during the tanker war and any model replicating the tanker war era 6s will only be correct in the standard color we all have come to love, pics you saw with grey 6s would not have been "us" or anybody I know during the tanker war that is my point, and I do have the photos of our 6s not in grey paint on the barges (some parked near gray 60)and ships during the tanker war, maybe some day I will post them, I'm still a newbee and I'm not ready for that. My orginal statement was "We did not use grey 6's in the "Tanker War" is true. I am not doubting that you have seen gray 6s if you say you saw pics of gray 6s then as far as I am concerned you saw pics with gray 6s and I will give you that any pics you saw may have been after the tanker war. Based on your above comment "I was told they were operating off of "the barge" I assume right or wrong you tell me the photo(s) you saw did/did not show a gray 6 landing or setting on a barge???, I wish you did have access to the pics, I could then help all of us determine what/where they are. I never saw a operational gray 6 that belonged to us or any gray 6 until the one posted here on this site of a M Model and lets just say I had many many years to look at all of them up to and including J models. It is very likely that tests were done on single aircraft in non combat conditions including over water near different type platforms with all types of paint setups including gray. We can agree to disagree and still be Friends???

Edited by Killing Stone
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No issues here, I'm not trying to start a debate, I was there (a lot) and I can tell you for a fact that "we" did not have gray 6s on the Hercules or the Windbrown (the other barge) or Navel ships during the tanker war and any model replicating the tanker war era 6s will only be correct in the standard color we all have come to love, any pics you saw with grey 6s would not have been "us" or anybody I know during the tanker war that is my point, and I do have the photos of our 6s not in grey paint on the barges (some parked next to gray 60)and ships during the tanker war, maybe some day I will post them. I am not doubting that you have seen gray 6s and I will give you that any pics you have seen may have been after the tanker war, I wish you did have access to the pics, I could then help all of us determine what/where they are. Friends???

No argument on my side either....:-)

The gray ones are definitely from the 160th and I guess must be post-tanker war. They were shown to me as a refutation of a statement I had made online that no Little Birds had ever been in other than black paint. I will try to re-connect with the source and get more info as to a date. Meanwhile for the Little Bird fans here's a photo of a plank not often seen in public:

mh-6m_81-23649.jpg

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

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No argument on my side either....:-)

The gray ones are definitely from the 160th and I guess must be post-tanker war. They were shown to me as a refutation of a statement I had made online that no Little Birds had ever been in other than black paint. I will try to re-connect with the source and get more info as to a date. Meanwhile for the Little Bird fans here's a photo of a plank not often seen in public:

mh-6m_81-23649.jpg

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

This pic is either a MH-6H or J and I believe it is a MH-6H (just a little harder to be 100% for me on this one). I believe you are correct in stating that "no Little Birds had ever been in other than black paint" if you add the word "operational" in front of the words "Little Birds" at least up to J models and you are only talking about "our" aircraft (of course anything is possible, I to would need to see it to believe it, we can be very prickly on specifics). Test aircraft can be anything, I added more comments to my earlier post so please reread when you get a chance. I did once see a single test aircraft in chalk white, very different than Navy Gray, it was a long time ago and I'm not sure of the year or model. I hope you can get back to your source and they supply us with at least one photo so we can sort it out.

I went back and looked at my old photos and every pic I had of a J model has the "X" antenna on top of the tail boom, every pic I have of a G or H model does not have the "X" antenna on top of the tail boom, there's not a lot to show the difference between a H and a J without close up pics but based on the antenna on the tail boom, I'm going to revise my statement and now say I believe this to be a J model :)

Edited by Killing Stone
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They may not have been "yours" but there were a least a few Littlebirds out there in something besides basic black :)

1279777214.jpg

Yea, I saw that somewhere in the post and read the write ups on it, I respectfully really have no comments in this area and as much as we would like to we can't own them all.

Edited by Killing Stone
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This pic is either a MH-6H or J and I believe it is a MH-6H (just a little harder to be 100% for me on this one). I believe you are correct in stating that "no Little Birds had ever been in other than black paint" if you add the word "operational" in front of the words "Little Birds" at least up to J models and you are only talking about "our" aircraft (of course anything is possible, I to would need to see it to believe it, we can be very prickly on specifics). Test aircraft can be anything, I added more comments to my earlier post so please reread when you get a chance. I did once see a single test aircraft in chalk white, very different than Navy Gray, it was a long time ago and I'm not sure of the year or model. I hope you can get back to your source and they supply us with at least one photo so we can sort it out.

I think the gray ones will turn out to be Js.

Killing Stone, do you have any comment on the rack in the photo?

Here's another interesting photo:

AH6littlebirdinC130tn.jpg

Specific items of interest - the winter cowling, what I'm assuming is an early FLIR mount under the spotlight, and generally the lightness of the overall color - the skids are noticeably light in color, and the winter cowl and the one more visible rocket pod look like they are gray or some sort of OD green. Compare to the color of the folded back blades, for example, or the crew member boots. The other rocket pod is mostly hidden behind the man on the left.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

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I think the gray ones will turn out to be Js.

Killing Stone, do you have any comment on the rack in the photo?

Here's another interesting photo:

AH6littlebirdinC130tn.jpg

Specific items of interest - the winter cowling, what I'm assuming is an early FLIR mount under the spotlight, and generally the lightness of the overall color - the skids are noticeably light in color, and the winter cowl and the one more visible rocket pod look like they are gray or some sort of OD green. Compare to the color of the folded back blades, for example, or the crew member boots. The other rocket pod is mostly hidden behind the man on the left.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

I took this up to 400%, it appears at first glance to be a AH-6G because 1. It has a Plank, 2. It looks like it has a T instrument panel but the panel looks somewhat like a C model panel also, hard to tell from the front, never saw a C model with a plank or FLIR, doesn't mean it didn't happen after I left and retired (I can only cover up to the J model time frame). I think the over head lights from the C130??? and maybe a flash from the camera is reflecting off the paint to make it look like it does, the top shoulder air force crew member flight suits are doing the same thing, so is the airforce aircraft's floor to a lesser degree, we have all seen the effect bright lights can have on objects (especially if you have used a flash for photos to put on ebay), I have a F model pic with a simular effect on it, lots of light reflecting off the windscreen. I say this because if you look carefully at the color of the airframe from the air vent down to the landing light which rolls/slopes down away from the camera and overhead lights you can see it is actually a darker color, I believe the entire aircraft would be this color, also the inside of the struts (again pointing down away from overhead lights and camera) on the right side of the aircraft (on left side of pic as you look at it), they are also darker as does appear the bottom inside rocket pod above them (you have to use the zoom to see the pod good). The winter cowling would have a slight slope up towards the lights and the top of the rocket pod would face up to the lights, the FLIR mount would be sort of flat vertical as to facing the camera (this is 1st gen FLIR mount for this airframe if it is a G), as would be the front of pod. Flir mount means post 1st Gulf War if this is a G model. Also I believe the paint may be somewhat fairly worn or is some sort of OD green, a good example of how the paint looks after some use is in the pics on a link here somewhere of the birds at Yakama Wa, if you take a good look at those pics you will see they are splotchy??? in color due to wear and some area's are lighter in color and some area's have dust impregnated in the paint(looks like light rust which appears mostly on undersides but can be on sides and pods, I saw that a lot in the old days), especially after work in sandy area's. There are some unusual things in this pic, 1. I don't see all the antenna I would expect to see or anywhere near what I would expect to see 2. The landing light isn't one of "our" usual covert lights, it looks overt 3. The air vent looks a little different 4. I don't see a temp gauge where I would expect to see one 5. The front struts don't have the step pointing forward as a G model had. 6. the whole airframe (from what we can see) looks a little "different to me" 7. I'm not sure who the pilot standing there is in the tan flight suit, he looks sort of like someone I know but somewhat different, patch on his right pocket is not known to me, could be a test guy from somewhere, he's pointing to where he wants the skids to stop as they winch the helo in 8. the somewhat C model looking instrument panel 9. I don't see normal crew around helo when onloading these aircraft 10. I don't see the "china" hat on top of the rotor blades, it would not be removed for a C130 loadout, and these are the issues I have from just a front view. I told you we were prickly on specifics. I had not seen this photo before, thanks for showing it to me, I love this stuff and let me know what you think about my observations.

More review of "Pilot" in "tan" suit with unknown patch leads me to beleive he is airforce not army and suit looks "tan" because of flash from lights and/or camera effect as I believe is happining with the aircraft. I know other crew flight suits did not do this but flash and cameras do strange things sometimes, his position would be closer and angle to camera flash would be different if that is what is happining here, slightly at loss on that. Never saw one of these loaded without the helo flight crew being involved

Edited by Killing Stone
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