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AH-6C, MH-6 photos from AH6C-SIP-PICS ARE BACK!


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On 1/6/2020 at 3:44 PM, Loach Driver said:

I found this photo on a Google search but can't link it to open. I can't access it as a European web user but it shows an MH-6E in Grenada in 1983. It has that mysterious white cross marking on the fuselage behind the rear door. Hopefully someone can link and attach the photo. I saved it to my PC but the image is too large to attach directly to this post.

 

https://timegoggles.com/news/archives/collection_f5fdc7bc-f4e8-11e9-97ce-7ffe267f2666.html

 

LD.

 

The "mysterious white cross" if I remember correctly is for airforce transport, they (the airforce) required an aircraft CG marking for upload and transport, so this pic most likely shows them ready for transport just prior to leaving the island, it could be a white chalk mark or white tape (this kind of looked like white tape to me), I would say this not placed where the aircraft CG was but was simply a mark place on the airframe to meet the airforce requirement, no one ever checked that mark for accuracy :)

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On 1/6/2020 at 4:52 PM, HeavyArty said:

Nice pic.

5daf2f455f48b.image.jpg?resize=750,464

 

5daf2f4a3aec6.image.jpg?resize=750,463

 

Another question though.  What is the four-blade tail rotor in this pic from the same page?

Only the MH's got this 4 blade tail rotor, the AH's did not get this version of the 4 blade tail rotor and I don't believe AH's had any 4 blade tail rotor until after the J models

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On 2/20/2018 at 2:51 PM, AH6C-SIP said:

RE:  Switching out gear John, I don't know for sure, but MH's, I don't think, are wired for the Plank system or the Armament Control Panel (or whatever they call them now).  Regards to all, GT

True, prior to J Models MH's were not wired for weapons, prior to J models when we armed MH's (E's/H's) for AH work we used the F model mini gun mount and rocket pod mount (one gun and one rocket pod) no plank, the wiring was external as in just run in the open in the cargo and cockpit area, when a MH E/H was armed for MH pilots only to use as in Prime Chance they only got the mini gun no rocket pod, wiring for mini gun as stated above 

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7 hours ago, Killing Stone said:

True, prior to J Models MH's were not wired for weapons, prior to J models when we armed MH's (E's/H's) for AH work we used the F model mini gun mount and rocket pod mount (one gun and one rocket pod) no plank, the wiring was external as in just run in the open in the cargo and cockpit area, when a MH E/H was armed for MH pilots only to use as in Prime Chance they only got the mini gun no rocket pod, wiring for mini gun as stated above 

On that Prime Chance MH that was armed, did it have the mini gun on one side and a plank on the other or just the mini?

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15 hours ago, Killing Stone said:

The instrument panel in the pic is an MH panel not a AH panel, it would be hard to describe an AH panel without a picture but the AMS would be in the lower left 1/4 of the instrument panel and a gun switch panel would be located on the left side of the lower console (anywhere) in an early J model AH, in a later J model the gun switch panel would be in the lower left of the instrument panel and a CDU with weapon pages would be located on the lower console usually under forward pilot's collective but could be anywhere on the lower console (rare but it happens), you need pics of an AH instrument panel (early or late) to get it close.

Ah well that makes things more difficult. I found cockpit photos of 4 different J models but they must all be MH and not AH.  I'm focused on an early J model, and after looking at walkaround pics of an AH-6J I saw the photo below.  The red object looks like its a toggle switch cover and must be that AMS panel you're talking about. It looks like its in the place of the TACAN panel as shown below.  Did the AH version not have the TACAN?  What about the Argus 7000? It's a blurry pic but kinda looks more like a standard HSI in the spot of the Argus 7000.

cockpit comparison.png

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10 hours ago, 11bee said:

On that Prime Chance MH that was armed, did it have the mini gun on one side and a plank on the other or just the mini?

Just the mini, there is a pic of one of those birds in the back pages, a lot of folks called it an F Model but it is an armed E Model pic taken in prime chance

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On 1/15/2020 at 12:57 PM, LBModeler said:

Ah well that makes things more difficult. I found cockpit photos of 4 different J models but they must all be MH and not AH.  I'm focused on an early J model, and after looking at walkaround pics of an AH-6J I saw the photo below.  The red object looks like its a toggle switch cover and must be that AMS panel you're talking about. It looks like its in the place of the TACAN panel as shown below.  Did the AH version not have the TACAN?  What about the Argus 7000? It's a blurry pic but kinda looks more like a standard HSI in the spot of the Argus 7000.

cockpit comparison.png

Trimble 3100 GPS/Loran and TACAN (not the Argus) was moved to top left lower console I can't remember which one was forward of the other but I think it was the Trimble with the TACAN closer to the pilot

 

Yep thats the AMS from an early AH6J setup, the AMS panel goes from switches up to clock.

 

 

Edited by Killing Stone
incorrect data
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11 minutes ago, Killing Stone said:

Just the mini, there is a pic of one of those birds in the back pages, a lot of folks called it an F Model but it is an armed E Model pic taken in prime chance

 

I think I know the photo you are referring to (folded rotors under netting). Does that mean that Bob Fladry's FLIR bird was also fitted with a minigun and no rockets? I'd always assumed his FlLIR bird was unarmed. Thanks.

 

LD. 

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24 minutes ago, Loach Driver said:

 

I think I know the photo you are referring to (folded rotors under netting). Does that mean that Bob Fladry's FLIR bird was also fitted with a minigun and no rockets? I'd always assumed his FlLIR bird was unarmed. Thanks.

 

LD. 

Mh's didn't have mini for Ajar event but single mini added on left side only soon after that, Bob's bird had a mini, the photo of the armed E model was not Bob's, he did use his mini on his bird as I understand/remember with the small boats (middle shoals???) but only he can answer that for sure, it was a long time ago

Edited by Killing Stone
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/15/2020 at 5:46 PM, Killing Stone said:

Argus and TACAN was moved to top left lower console I can't remember which one was forward of the other but I think it was the Argus with the TACAN closer to the pilot

 

Yep thats the AMS from an early AH6J setup, the AMS panel goes from switches up to clock.

So what was in the place of the Argus?  And did the AH still have the GPS control panel(CUGR/Trimble 2100)? Thanks for the info.

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On 1/24/2020 at 6:18 PM, LBModeler said:

So what was in the place of the Argus?  And did the AH still have the GPS control panel(CUGR/Trimble 2100)? Thanks for the info.

Trimble 3100 GPS/Loran and TACAN (not the Argus) was moved I had to go back and relook at my quote (I also corrected that quote), I just repeated what was said when answering the question "Did the AH version not have the TACAN?  What about the Argus 7000? " my mistake, the Argus did not move.

 

In addition and there always are exceptions in the LB world, I was not qualified on shooting Hellfires (G or J model) so I didn't fly them, only a couple of pilots were when I was flying G/J models, the J model Hellfire birds (i don't remember more than 2 set up this way at the time, could have been more) had the Trimble 3100 GPS/Loran and TACAN on instrument panel like the MH birds with a CDU on lower console right side and a Hellfire armament power control panel on the left side of the lower console almost opposite of CDU in position, good luck finding a pic of that set up, one G model Hellfire bird was set up and used in Desert Storm (I don't think the G Model had a CDU but it's own Hellfire panel with wires run open air inside the cockpit, I never looked at the G model hellfire panel up close so I have no idea what it actually looked like), and I know there was certain pilot's (2 maybe 4) trained on firing Hell fires on G models prior to Desert Storm, don't remember how many pilot's trained on Hellfire bird after Desert Storm but I wasn't one of them G or J model.

 

This was 30 + years ago, it's hard to remember everything at first and some info comes to mind after thinking about it a day or two later.

 

The red covered switch in the walk around pic of an AH above is the rocket pod Jettison switch, only pods not mini-guns were jettison-able  (emergency use only, never heard of it every being used on any bird and/or emergency)

Edited by Killing Stone
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2 hours ago, Killing Stone said:

Trimble 3100 GPS/Loran and TACAN (not the Argus) was moved I had to go back and relook at my quote (I also corrected that quote), I just repeated what was said when answering the question "Did the AH version not have the TACAN?  What about the Argus 7000? " my mistake, the Argus did not move.

 

In addition and there always are exceptions in the LB world, I was not qualified on shooting Hellfires so I didn't fly them, only a couple of pilots were when I was flying J models, the Hellfire birds (i don't remember more than 2 set up this way at the time, could have been more) had the Trimble 3100 GPS/Loran and TACAN on instrument panel like the MH birds with a CDU on lower console right side and a Hellfire armament power control panel on the left side of the lower console almost opposite of CDU in position, good luck finding a pic of that set up, one was set up and used in Desert Storm, and I know there was certain pilot's (2 maybe 4) trained on firing Hellfires prior to Desert Storm, don't remember how many pilot's trained on Hellfire bird after Desert Storm but I wasn't one of them.

 

The red covered switch in the walk around pic of an AH above is the rocket pod Jettison switch, only pods not mini-guns were jettison-able  (emergency use only, never heard of it every being used on any bird and/or emergency)

KS, thanks for all the good info.   I'm intrigued about the Hellfire birds.   Did they use the standard FLIR to designate the targets or something else?   

 

I have to ask - if you have any LB related pics that haven't made it to this site, I hope you'll consider sharing them with us.  You and GT are goldmines of info on this previously very neglected subject. Thanks again for all your contributions.

 

John

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11 hours ago, 11bee said:

KS, thanks for all the good info.   I'm intrigued about the Hellfire birds.   Did they use the standard FLIR to designate the targets or something else?   

 

I have to ask - if you have any LB related pics that haven't made it to this site, I hope you'll consider sharing them with us.  You and GT are goldmines of info on this previously very neglected subject. Thanks again for all your contributions.

 

John

I updated my comment above please reread, some data comes to mind after a day or two of thought.

 

G model had no designator that I know of and needed a buddy to lase for it, I believe J models could self designate but again I wasn't qualified on the Hellfire birds.

 

Yes several and no

 

GT definitely  knows the early C models way better than me, I flew them but I wasn't there at the very beginning.

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KS, I second what John has said. Thanks for this fascinating information on the Hellfire-equipped Little Birds. I have a few questions on two more topics that you might be in a position to answer.

 

Firstly, can you recall the 160th test-firing the Stinger ATAS missile from a Little Bird in the 1984-85 period (or indeed any time after that)? I saw it mentioned in an issue of Army Aviation Digest (if I recall correctly) that the Army was due to test-fire this missile from an "MD500" as they called it.

 

I asked a contact at Hughes/MDHC to see if they ever test-fired a Stinger from one of their test-ships and he can't recall that the Stinger was ever fired in their testing.  Hughes had a mock-up Stinger Pod fitted to their Defender II Scout helicopter in 1980 and the Stinger was also an armament option on the Hughes/MDHC 530MG Defender (1984 onwards) but no test-firing took place during the development of either version of the Defender.  

 

Secondly, can you recall any details of the MH-6N NOTAR conversion that was tested in the early nineties that was ultimately rejected? Very little detail has come into the public domain in relation to this version of the MH-6 and the flight-test report has, so far, not been released to the public on the DTIC website even though a test-report is listed in their bibliography of all test reports. 

 

Thanks for any information you can offer.

 

LD.  

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4 hours ago, Loach Driver said:

KS, I second what John has said. Thanks for this fascinating information on the Hellfire-equipped Little Birds. I have a few questions on two more topics that you might be in a position to answer.

 

Firstly, can you recall the 160th test-firing the Stinger ATAS missile from a Little Bird in the 1984-85 period (or indeed any time after that)? I saw it mentioned in an issue of Army Aviation Digest (if I recall correctly) that the Army was due to test-fire this missile from an "MD500" as they called it.

 

I asked a contact at Hughes/MDHC to see if they ever test-fired a Stinger from one of their test-ships and he can't recall that the Stinger was ever fired in their testing.  Hughes had a mock-up Stinger Pod fitted to their Defender II Scout helicopter in 1980 and the Stinger was also an armament option on the Hughes/MDHC 530MG Defender (1984 onwards) but no test-firing took place during the development of either version of the Defender.  

 

Secondly, can you recall any details of the MH-6N NOTAR conversion that was tested in the early nineties that was ultimately rejected? Very little detail has come into the public domain in relation to this version of the MH-6 and the flight-test report has, so far, not been released to the public on the DTIC website even though a test-report is listed in their bibliography of all test reports. 

 

Thanks for any information you can offer.

 

LD.  

I know no one who fired a stinger doesn't mean it didn't happen I know a lot of pilots wanted to fire one me included but I would say most likely we didn't fire one, the G model had provisions to fire a stinger (could carry two on a side) never even saw one mounted (stinger rails and/or stinger), the J model did not have provisions to fire a stinger (most likely cause we didn't need/use them), don't know what provisions are now. 

 

I flew the NOTAR I only remember a AH-6N I don't remember a MH-6N maybe same bird configured each way at different times to test each mission type, just because we were there didn't mean we got a chance to see everything going on we were all busy doing various things, pedals felt like the brakes on a car with air in the brake lines kind of mushy to me. I could see it as a good bird for police operations (lighter mission weights) but for various reasons just didn't work for us enough said.

Edited by Killing Stone
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Thanks for that info. 

 

I have an old Hughes brochure (1984) for the Stinger option fitted to an OH-6 and it seemed to incorporate a pilot sighting system for the Stinger, mounted on the roof glazing above the pilot's seat. I always thought that the Stinger was a "fire-and-forget" type missile but apparently it needed to be fired using a target sighting system, perhaps to at least acquire the target in the launch phase. 

 

As for the H-6N, I think the same test ship was flown in both MH-6 and AH-6 configuration. The photos I've seen of the armed H-6N shows it fitted with dual loaded Hellfire missile rails . The other armed configuration had it carrying two seven-shot rocket pods on the outside stations with no miniguns fitted. I've also seen it fitted with people planks, clean with just the range-extender tank in the rear cabin and with the FLIR mount fitted under the nose but no FLIR actually fitted. I'm not sure if one or two aircraft were converted to H-6N configuration for testing. Thanks.

 

LD.

Edited by Loach Driver
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On 1/25/2020 at 8:03 AM, Killing Stone said:

Trimble 3100 GPS/Loran and TACAN (not the Argus) was moved I had to go back and relook at my quote (I also corrected that quote), I just repeated what was said when answering the question "Did the AH version not have the TACAN?  What about the Argus 7000? " my mistake, the Argus did not move.

 

In addition and there always are exceptions in the LB world, I was not qualified on shooting Hellfires (G or J model) so I didn't fly them, only a couple of pilots were when I was flying G/J models, the J model Hellfire birds (i don't remember more than 2 set up this way at the time, could have been more) had the Trimble 3100 GPS/Loran and TACAN on instrument panel like the MH birds with a CDU on lower console right side and a Hellfire armament power control panel on the left side of the lower console almost opposite of CDU in position, good luck finding a pic of that set up, one G model Hellfire bird was set up and used in Desert Storm (I don't think the G Model had a CDU but it's own Hellfire panel with wires run open air inside the cockpit, I never looked at the G model hellfire panel up close so I have no idea what it actually looked like), and I know there was certain pilot's (2 maybe 4) trained on firing Hell fires on G models prior to Desert Storm, don't remember how many pilot's trained on Hellfire bird after Desert Storm but I wasn't one of them G or J model.

 

This was 30 + years ago, it's hard to remember everything at first and some info comes to mind after thinking about it a day or two later.

 

The red covered switch in the walk around pic of an AH above is the rocket pod Jettison switch, only pods not mini-guns were jettison-able  (emergency use only, never heard of it every being used on any bird and/or emergency)

What where those 6-7 dials on the lower right side for? Audio? Internal lights?

Edited by LBModeler
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  • 1 month later...

Hey guys, I have a quick question regarding the 160th SOAR that I am sure you all can answer.

 

I was looking over a very nice build of a Kitty Hawk MH-60L, and the builder left the doors off. Is this something the pilots would do? I know the Little Bird often has no doors, but the Blackhawk, I have doubts. Also, would they remove the rear sliding doors as well? I only ask, because there is so much great detail inside, it would actually be nice to leave them off, but I want to be accurate as well. And since I plan to show my kits in flight, the pilots doors would have to be closed, unless they are removed.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Anthony

 

PS. Has anyone built the Kitty Hawk A/MH-6 kits yet? I just ordered two of them, the 50002 & 50004, the two that contain figures, which I will mix and match with other figure of the MH-60L's I will be building in the future.

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Yes, MH-60Ls fly w/out the pilots doors pretty routinely, esp. in hot climates.  The side cargo/troop doors are usually pinned back in the full open position as well.

Link (remove spaces): htt ps://www.helis.com/h/mh-60l.jp g

mh-60-black-hawk-fast-rope.jpg

 

Edited by HeavyArty
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7 hours ago, HeavyArty said:

Yes, MH-60Ls fly w/out the pilots doors pretty routinely, esp. in hot climates.  The side cargo/troop doors are usually pinned back in the full open position as well.

I knew that this was the place to get the quickest answer. Thanks!

 

Anthony

 

PS. Haven't built the kits I bought from you yet, life got in the way, but I gave life the boot, so hopefully soon, I will be on the bench with one of the big kits.

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Hey guys, I stumbled upon a website dedicated to SF, including but not limited too SOAR. They have a few very nice photos that I can't remember seeing on this thread. I will post some, in the hopes they are new to the thread, they certainly are interesting.

 

Anyway, if they turn out to be duplicates, just let me know, and I will delete the post in the name of space.

 

Enjoy 😊

ah-6-carrier.jpg

 

mh-6-nascar.jpg

 

rangers-mh-6.jpg

 

ah-6m.jpg

 

little-bird-rangers.jpg

 

There are a few more pictures of the Little Birds, plus a bunch of Blackhawks and Chinook as well. Seems like a very nice site for reference photos of helicopters from the SPECOPS community as a whole.
Cheers,

 

Anthony D'Agostino

 

 

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21 hours ago, HeavyArty said:

Yes, MH-60Ls fly w/out the pilots doors pretty routinely, esp. in hot climates.  The side cargo/troop doors are usually pinned back in the full open position as well.

Link (remove spaces): htt ps://www.helis.com/h/mh-60l.jp g

mh-60-black-hawk-fast-rope.jpg

 

Actually the cargo doors are locked back by the latch when you slide them full back.  Pinning was done with the Hueys. Not being nitpicky, just my UH-60 OCD kicking in! Lol 😁

 

Tim

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