fulcrum Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 (edited) Alright, I will build a Baby Jumbo under comission for a friend starting with a 1/444 Revell 747-400 kit, of course I already have the famous and mythic building article from FSM '94 issue. I would like to scratchbuild those tiny details behind slats and spoilers and get better shots of the flaps featuring those underside slight bulges (something missed on FSM article ^_^ ). Braz models' resin JT9D engines are not available anymore so any reference on real thing will be very useful. I need in-detail shots before extreme surgery so any help is welcome, it's my first airliners and I dn't want to ruin it... so HELP ME PLEASE!! Thanks in advance. Cheers. Edited September 2, 2009 by fulcrum Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 First of all, save yourself a LOT of work and get the Welsh Models SP kit. It's very accurate. As for the details, you're in for a lot of work on that, but keep in mind that the SP has single slotted flaps instead of the triple slotted flaps of normal 747s. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dhtrident2e Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Why dont you better start with the Airfix 747-200 kit?. It'll save you a lot of trouble, specially with the engines and wing/body fairing. If your friend allows, there's also the Heller 1/125, wich will be a very interesting coversion indeed. Saludos, Trident Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trojan Thunder Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Why dont you better start with the Airfix 747-200 kit?.It'll save you a lot of trouble, specially with the engines and wing/body fairing. If your friend allows, there's also the Heller 1/125, wich will be a very interesting coversion indeed. Saludos, Trident ...because he will be up for a lot more work! The Airfix kit is missing a lot of detail (including no wing body fairing) and the engine pylons are incorrect for an SP. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GCA333 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 And pretty much everything else on the Airfix kit is wrong as well. From what I have seen, it can't even stand! The Revell 747-200 would be the best of the injection kits, but the Welsh would be the easiest option of all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldHooker Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) Hi Fulcrum, All the best on your mod! As was suggested, the Revell -200 would be a much better starting point on your project, but certainly doable with the -400, given some accessory JT9D's and the FSM article. I'm an old Jumbo "scratcher" myself and sounds like it will be a fun project! Here are some refs I have found: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/fly...CS/IMG_4093.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/fly...CS/IMG_4100.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/fly...CS/IMG_4089.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/fly...CS/IMG_4091.jpg http://floatingmid.com/747SPflaps.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6...47SP_N747FU.jpg Take care and post updates, Frank Edited September 3, 2009 by oldHooker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Hingtgen Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) Oooh, neat flaps pics. The SP's flaps are notable for their first bit of movement---they really move DOWN. Like an elevator. Then they start pivoting down and moving back like normal flaps, as more flap is called for. The third pic shows it the best---the whole flap is below the wing, not merely slid back and angled down. Edited September 3, 2009 by David Hingtgen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MiG31 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 I would assume that Fulcrum's on a limited budget, so that might explain why he chose the somewhat easy to find 747-400 kit. As for converting it, the hardest part (aside from the engines) is going to be shortening the upper deck. Shortening the fuselage won't be that difficult, though I cannot say the same for the empennage with certainty, as I understand it's different from the standard 747. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldHooker Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) I would assume that Fulcrum's on a limited budget, so that might explain why he chose the somewhat easy to find 747-400 kit. As for converting it, the hardest part (aside from the engines) is going to be shortening the upper deck. Affirmative.... Here are some basic schematics on shortening the upper deck on the -400, fulcrum: Putty can then be used to add the bulge behind the hump. Take care, Frank Edited September 3, 2009 by oldHooker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) First of all, save yourself a LOT of work and get the Welsh Models SP kit. ... and forget all that fun ripping the Revell -400 kit? No way!! I have already cut apart the front fuselage section to get a right SP look, so it became one way ticket you know, no chance for Welsh kit this time. Hi Fulcrum, All the best on your mod! As was suggested, the Revell -200 would be a much better starting point on your project, but certainly doable with the -400, given some accessory JT9D's and the FSM article. I'm an old Jumbo "scratcher" myself and sounds like it will be a fun project! Here are some refs I have found: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/fly...CS/IMG_4093.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/fly...CS/IMG_4100.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/fly...CS/IMG_4089.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/fly...CS/IMG_4091.jpg http://floatingmid.com/747SPflaps.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6...47SP_N747FU.jpg Take care and post updates, Frank Frank, thanks for the shots, they are very useful indeed!! u know, I am new to civies! I would assume that Fulcrum's on a limited budget, so that might explain why he chose the somewhat easy to find 747-400 kit. U got it! Affirmative.... Here are some basic schematics on shortening the upper deck on the -400, fulcrum: Putty can then be used to add the bulge behind the hump. Take care, Frank Thanks guys. I am suspecting that starting with -400 kit is not so bad idea, after comparing the -400 kit with real SP shots I discovered that the upper deck hump ends exactly where the SP's shorter deck does, the problem is not where it ends but how it ends. The Revell kit failed to represent the correct look of the area where upper deck meets main fuselage section, check this shot for a better reference: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran-Air/Bo...P-86/1569484/L/ Also I was checking this useful article about converting Revell 747-400 to other versions, I simply started laughing after reading the SP part wich sounds very very fun :lol: http://amd.zveza-zgpms.si/mods/mod747.HTM If you have more closeups, tips or ideas please share. Cheers. Edited September 4, 2009 by fulcrum Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldHooker Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Looks like you're "going for it" ...so here's another couple of mods that will make the front and wing attachment look more 747ish.... (adjusting the wing pitch actually improves engine angle) Always enjoy in-progress reports & photos! Take care, Frank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum Posted September 5, 2009 Author Share Posted September 5, 2009 Looks like you're "going for it" ...so here's another couple of modsthat will make the front and wing attachment look more 747ish.... (adjusting the wing pitch actually improves engine angle) Always enjoy in-progress reports & photos! Take care, Frank Those shots look very interesting Frank any thread where to appreciate the wing root profile rework better? I had noticed the kit's nose rare proportions, now this confirms what I suspected. Thanks! In progress shots of Baby Jumbo very soon. Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldHooker Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 any thread where to appreciate the wing root profile rework better?I had noticed the kit's nose rare proportions, now this confirms what I suspected. Thanks! Cheers. Thanks Fulcrum, Here's a breakdown of the steps in repositioning the wing.... The mods go fairly quick, just takes a lot of boresighting for shape on the nose, but they're both well worth it in the end. I also have schematics on extending the oleo struts and determining gear pitch if it's going to be displayed in-flight. Good luck and take care, Frank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Great build instructions, Frank ! Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldHooker Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) Gregg: The illustrations are part of a scrapbook I've done to pass along to my Grandchildren if/when they get into the hobby. :P David: There's a YouTube video that someone took out the left side on an SP while on approach, and watching the Flap process of that aircraft always fascinated me. Fulcrum: Here's another SP photo you might be interested in seeing. Take care, Frank Edited September 6, 2009 by oldHooker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum Posted September 7, 2009 Author Share Posted September 7, 2009 (edited) Frank, is good to count your help, those shots are very didactic indeed! I've found another interesting video with SP's flaps and spoilers in action: Do any of you think it's starting to look like a Baby Jumbo? :D Cheers! :lol: Edited September 7, 2009 by fulcrum Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GCA333 Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Looks like it to me! :lol: SP conversions using decal windows are much easier, the 747SP configuration is very different from the other 747's, so it can create a problem. Looking forward to seeing more pictures! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldHooker Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) Thanks Fulcrum! Great video! The initial incisions you have made certainly have SP written all over them! This is going to be a great project; keeping my eyes peeled! ;) Take care, Frank Edited September 10, 2009 by oldHooker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dhtrident2e Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Frank, is good to count your help, those shots are very didactic indeed!I've found another interesting video with SP's flaps and spoilers in action: Do any of you think it's starting to look like a Baby Jumbo? :D Cheers! Fulcrum: Great looking pics!!!!!. I myself like cabin windows, and I think that doing the conversion and maintaining the window count really shows how good you are!!!!!!. Sorry for suggesting the Airfix kit. I didnt know it was so bad. By the way, How are you doing the tapering rear fuselage???????please post pics ASAP. Saludos, Trident Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bugs3144 Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Don't forget you have to extend the vertical stabilizer as the sp was taller and more pointed. Frank ATL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldHooker Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hi Fulcrum, I located more photos that should be of some assistance... Take care, Frank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 Fulcrum: Great looking pics!!!!!. I myself like cabin windows, and I think that doing the conversion and maintaining the window count really shows how good you are!!!!!!. Sorry for suggesting the Airfix kit. I didnt know it was so bad. By the way, How are you doing the tapering rear fuselage???????please post pics ASAP. Saludos, Trident Hi Trident sorry for delaying, progress going slowly here. Don't worry, I don't know a thing about civies... I am using some styrene formers for starboard and port sides to glue them later and shape the right volume and proportions. Don't forget you have to extend the vertical stabilizer as the sp was taller and more pointed.Frank ATL Yes u are right, I really wanted to start to modify the tips on wings and tail but decided to go with the rear fuselage modification first... Hi Fulcrum, I located more photos that should be of some assistance... Take care, Frank Frank thanks, that's very useful. So Kruger flaps surface is hinged to wing while variable camber's isn't right? Cheers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Hingtgen Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) Krüger flaps and variable-camber flaps are very similar (which is why 90% of places don't even mention that 747s have two different types on the LE), with the difference being that the variable-camber ones are actually flexible (thus the name). They are all "flat" when retracted, but the variable ones actually are bent into a curve by the linkages when they're extended. Only the flaps inboard of the inboard engines are Krüger flaps like on many other airliners. All others are the "variable camber" ones, which are unique to the 747 AFAIK. The 747's v-c flaps open up a slot, but I'm not sure if that's unique to v-c flaps, or merely that a *747's* Krüger ones don't. Can't think of any other Krügers that do though---I wonder if the fact that the 747's v-c ones make a slot is why they're so often called slats. Edited September 15, 2009 by David Hingtgen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldHooker Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Old habits die hard, and that goes for calling v-c flaps, Slats, I guess. You're right, David, it's force of habit when I see light through the cracks. :blink: Fulcrum, Here's a profile of the Krüger flap mechanism.... (note the flap is not fully opened) ...... Also, here's a good shot of the actuator spacing on the v-c flaps.... Take care, Frank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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