A-7E with LGB in Vietnam

[Taylor Durbon]

Argonauts had LGBˋs too.

 

https://www.facebook.com/Tailhook.Association/photos/a.805279509509998/3746193312085255/?type=3

[AD-4N]

Had no idea LGBs were used this late in the war on A-4s and what not.  Next you'll show me an A-1J with an LGB.  

[Collin]

A-7’s were buddy dropping for A-6’s, and -146 had some A-4F’s wired for them as well. They were buddy dropping with some FASTFACS I believe at the end of the war. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Collin

[mrvark]

The Navy explored at least three types of LGB-delivery methods for carrier-based aircraft: the A-6C Trails and Roads Interdiction, Multi-sensor (TRIM), the A-6A fitted with a modified version of the USAF’s PAVE Knife pod designated AN/AVQ-10A, and the Navy-developed system called the Light Weight Laser (LWL).  So far as is known, the LWL never received an official designation. A handheld device, it was a portable, battery-powered laser beam generator that could be carried by a ground forward air control party or installed in an aircraft. The hand held laser unit was an eight-pound rectangular box, measuring 4.5 x 4.5 x 10 inches. The operator aimed it like a box camera, using its three-powered telescope with a 15° FOV.

 

During January 1971, Marine A-4Es and A-6As carrying LGB s began flying Steel Tiger missions in southern Laos in cooperation with the USAF’s PAVE Light equipped F-4Ds of the 433rd TFS, 8th TFW (FG). When the tests ended on 31 January 1971, the 1st MAW recommended that the LWL be made an "integral part" of the A-4 weapons system and LGBs "be incorporated into the Marine Corps' inventory of weapons". The after action report of these tests never stated that the LWL was used in an aircraft, only that it was used by Marines on the ground to designate for aircraft fitted with laser detectors. Apparently, USAF F-4Ds performed the only airborne designations.

 

Six LWLs were used in SEA during the last half of 1972. It appears they were deployed in pairs with CVW-21 TA-4Fs, and CVW-11 and CVW-3 F-4Js. When CVW-21 departed Vietnam, they probably passed their illuminators to CVW-14.

 

During three cruises on CVA/CV-19, the USS Hancock, CVW-21 conducted LGB operations. During these cruises, the VA-164 ‘Ghost Riders’ deployed with two-seat TA-4Fs (ideal for employing the LWL) in addition to their normal compliment of single-seat A-4Fs. 

 

During its 17 February to 28 November 1972 cruise on CVA-63, the USS Kitty Hawk, CVW-11 conducted LGB operations. The VF-213 ‘Black Lions’ and VF-114 ‘Aardvarks’, flying F-4Js, at first illuminated targets for A-7Es from VA-192 ‘Golden Dragons’ and VA-195 ‘Dam Busters’. As other wings would find, matching the disparate performance of the F-4 and A-7 presented challenges. In the end, CVW-11 came to prefer a section of F-4Js, with the bomber configured with two Mk 82 LGBs, while the illuminator carried four Mk 82 LDGP bombs. The wing dropped 89 Mk 82 LGBs, 27 Mk 83 LGBs, and 46 Mk 84 LGBs during this cruise.

 

During its 11 April 1972 to 13 February 1973 cruise on CVA-60, the USS Saratoga, CVW-3 began conducting LGB operations following their first line period. During a late-June in-port period at Cubic Bay, Philippines, experienced crews from CVW-21’s VA-164 trained a single crew from each F-4J squadron (VF-31 ‘Tomcatters’ and VF-103 ‘Sluggers’) on the single available LWL. Midway through the next line period, a second LDTS became available. The F-4Js acted ‘strictly as illuminators’ with the LGBs being delivered by A-7As from the VA-37 ‘Bulls’ and VA-105 ‘Gunslingers’. In all, CVW-3 delivered 26 Mk 82LGBs, 34 Mk 83 LGBs, and 32 Mk 84 LGBs.

 

During its 5 June 1972 to 24 March 1973 cruise on the CVA-66, the USS America, CVW-8 conducted LGB operations. Three A-6Cs were assigned to the VA-35 ‘Black Panthers’. Equipped with TRIM, which included a laser designation capability, the A-6C was apparently used only as a illuminator aircraft and was first successfully employed on 5 November 1972. The squadron’s end-of-cruise report concluded, “The maintenance, technical, and supply effort required to…maintain [this] capability is not proportional to the increase in weapons capabilities.” This lack of enthusiasm can better be understood when it is realized that during the entire cruise, VA-35 only dropped 13 Mk 82 LGBs, and reported successes only 5 and 9 November.

 

During its 12 September 1972 to 12 June 1973 cruise on the CVAN-65, the USS Enterprise, CVW-14 conducted LGB operations. LWL is known to have been used by A-6As of the VA-196 ‘Main Battery’, which would seem to make this the only Intruder unit to have used this system. It is not known what part the wing’s other squadrons played in LGB operations.

 

During its 16 November 1972 to 22 June 1973 cruise on the CVA-61, the USS Ranger, CVW-2 conducted LGB operations. Three A-6As from the VA-145 ‘Swordsmen’ were fitted with centerline-mounted AN/AVQ-10A PAVE Knife pods. This cruise included participation during Linebacker II, with its notoriously bad weather—not conducive to LGB operations. As a result, only 33 Mk 83 and 21 Mk 84 LGBs were delivered against targets in southern North Vietnam by the A-6As along with A-7Es of the VA-113 ‘Stingers’ and VA-25 ‘Fist of the Fleet’.

 

 

 

[ElectroSoldier]

What colour were the Pave knife pods used by the A-6A "VA-145"?

 

I only ask because the navy seems to like painting things white.

Like the British army does when they put you on jankers. 

[mrvark]

11 minutes ago, ElectroSoldier said:

What colour were the Pave knife pods used by the A-6A "VA-145"?

 

I only ask because the navy seems to like painting things white.

Like the British army does when they put you on jankers. 

 

[ElectroSoldier]

1 minute ago, mrvark said:

 

I knew it! LOL

[Finn]

Here is a A-6C getting a LGB:

 

 

Jari

[Hajo L.]

Concerning the LWL mentioned above...: Do I understand it correctly, they were using this sort of "hand held device" from a cockpit of a flying aircraft over a combat zone?? I could imagine this thing shaking all over the place and not "painting" a target constantly.... Or am I wrong?

 

 

HAJO

[Gary F]

Yes, hand held by the B/N. 

[Collin]

1 minute ago, Gary F said:

Yes, hand held by the B/N. 

Or the back seat of a TA-4F. 
 

Collin

[Gary F]

I can only speak firsthand on the A-6 (VA-196 on the 72-73 cruise).  It’s been a long time but I recall our crews saying when they buddy lasted for the F-4’s there were always issues … ie the F-4’s didn’t really want to do that mission.  When they worked with the A-7’s they had pretty good outcomes.   
When they flew the hand held device the AE’s would do the job. We would pull a panel from the BN’s right console, find the correct plug down there, connect it to the laser panel and fasten that panel in place.  Then the device would just be plugged into the panel and it was ready to go.  I don’t know how many times it got used but I was involved with 3 installations. If it flew a mission it was usually removed afterwards and the right console would be returned to normal. 

[ikar]

I could be wrong about the 111s.  It was a long time ago and I eventually had to sell a lot of photos I took from the war because I needed money badly.  I wasn't making all that much at the time.  I have some good shots of them with the wings out and getting full loads of various  bombs, including clusters and other things.  

 

I didn't know the B-57s were there.  What year was that?  

 

[mrvark]

9 minutes ago, ikar said:

I didn't know the B-57s were there.  What year was that?  

 

B-57s were in the fight for pretty much the whole war, but the B-57Gs were the only ones dropping Mk 82 LGBs, aka BOLT 82s (they were called GBU-12s until after the war was over). The B-57Gs were assigned to the 13 BS, 8 TFW based at Ubon between 28 Sep 70 and 7 Apr 72.

 

[Thadeus]

These are some very nice photos. Thanks for posting them. Very interesting loadouts, mixing GBU's with slicks and throwing in a Shrike. Wow. Almost like a gaming loadout 😉

[ElectroSoldier]

11 hours ago, Thadeus said:

These are some very nice photos. Thanks for posting them. Very interesting loadouts, mixing GBU's with slicks and throwing in a Shrike. Wow. Almost like a gaming loadout 😉

I also like the US Navy weapons loads, their thinking seems more inline with the way read life really works.

 

Ideally you want to use an LGB but it you cant use an LGB then you can still deal with it because you can use the slicks oh and they might be toting air defences so you got that too.