172flogger Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Some photos from Eduard Eday presentation: http://modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37797 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Kewwwwel!!! Can't wait for those babies!! J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) Wow, thanks for the pictures. But, if the translator is correct, you say that the wings and fuselage are the same. But i thought that the wings were different in terms of panellines on Bis and MF. Translated page Edited September 23, 2009 by Berkut Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matt Roberts Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 First I have heard that they ARE thinking of first generation Fishbeds. I thought at the Nats Eduard had specifically told me that they had no plans to do early (1st Generation) Mig-21s on the bet that someone in the Far East would beat them to it...... Matt Now to see what else comes out Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Looks nice but where are those F-4's that they were supposed to be releasing? John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
172flogger Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 I'm just a visitor. Basic info from Eduard: - date: Eday 2010 (september 2010?) - versions: first Czech MF/MFN. And Bis, SMT. Probably MA and R, because they talk about R-11 exhaust and Czech Air Force versions. - all standard weapons and RATO rockets - special lighted limited editions - If they sell well in the future will follow the second generation (PF/PFM/FL), and only after her departure could be the first generation F-13. It will take another few years. - 1/72 MIG-15 is still not completely dead project, it wants to eventually return and finish it. I think wings and fuselage are same for all versions. They inspected several machines and found no differences in the shape of the intake. Are their words. Still is some time for bombing Eduard with emails about different MF/Bis intake and panel lines.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) I think wings and fuselage are same for all versions. They inspected several machines and found no differences in the shape of the intake. Are their words.Still is some time for bombing Eduard with emails about different MF/Bis intake and panel lines.... MF: oval wing panel Bis: no oval wing panel and not here either or in page 14 of the Lock-On book Making common wings for MF and bis versions because it would be too costly to tool different wings and admitting it is very understandable. Saying there's no difference at all is a proof of negligence or a lie. The 1/32 Bf-109 strikes back. For the nose, I'm not 100% sure if there's a really noticeable difference. I wouldn't have done a poll if I was sure. Edited September 23, 2009 by Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fuji Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Well that looks promising! Looks like I'll finally be able to do my Cuban FAR MiG-21R. I've always loved the MiG-21 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedStar Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) Looks REALLY, REALLY good! Very complete in terms of their offerings, and creative in their breakdown of the parts. I particularly like the one piece lower wing that should do well to properly set the wings at their slight anhedral angles. The engineering on the speed brakes is well thought through as well. The weapons look to be spectacular for a kit, and just to see the MF/SMT and bis options properly represented is just the cincher for me. As for the wing panel differences, I could frankly care LESS - it's a simple fill-job to remove the panel if necessary. I've seen that requirement on countless kits, so that's a nit. And as Laurent has noted, the debate over the shape of the intakes between the 3rd and 4th gen MiGs is inconclusive at best. There is a perception that something is different, but I'm going to trust that with Eduard's access to all variants within a short distance of their location in the Czech republic (since the Czechs never operated the bis that I'm aware of), they were able to conclusively determine that there wasn't a difference. In the end, I don't even care if there was, as at most it would be about a 1mm difference in the diameter of the intake, and I can live with that variance, should it be there, as the real differences - the spines, and similar, appear to be captured properly for the first time in modern tooled kits. I'm buying about a case of each, to do my part to get the 2nd gen MiG-21s... Can't freakin' wait. Vlad told me they should be around at Nats next summer, I sure hope that he's right! Paul Edited September 23, 2009 by pcotcher Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedStar Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 First I have heard that they ARE thinking of first generation Fishbeds. I thought at the Nats Eduard had specifically told me that they had no plans to do early (1st Generation) Mig-21s on the bet that someone in the Far East would beat them to it...... Indeed - in talking through the project with Vlad, it was clear that the 2nd generation MiG-21s were going to happen well in advance of any thought to the first. So we're talking about a PF/PFM with all the associated "half spine" sub-variants (and there are a lot of them). The first-gen MiG-21s are far more likely to come from Hobby Boss in any amount of time before Eduard gets 'round to it. And frankly that would be fine with me, as the 1/32 Trumpeter MiG-21F-13 is a nice kit, scaled down it would be just fine! And make no mistake, there's all kinds of cool stuff that you can do with their first kits right off the bat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 ...it's a simple fill-job to remove the panel if necessary. I've seen that requirement on countless kits, so that's a nit.Paul I agree, it is indeed no problem at all to correct it if needed. About the intake, if it looks like Zvezda Bis one, i am happy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) As for the wing panel differences, I could frankly care LESS - it's a simple fill-job to remove the panel if necessary. As I've already said, I'm not a panel line guy. The panel lines of the wing are different. There are photographic evidences that shows this. If the guys in charge of the project maintain their words (if they have really said them) that the panel lines are the same, there's a problem of relationship between the guys and their customers. That's the only thing that bother me. I agree that the panel line issue is minor and that it's very easily fixable. There is something but it doesn't really matter. In the end, I don't even care if there was, as at most it would be about a 1mm difference in the diameter of the intake, and I can live with that variance, should it be there, as the real differences - the spines, and similar, appear to be captured properly for the first time in modern tooled kits. It isn't the millimeter of the intake itself that matters to me but the impact of this millimeter over the whole nose. I'll be buying at least one kit and perhaps others especially if they do a 2nd gen MiG (sleeker looking and I like the various curves of the spine). I have to confess that I'm not impatient as there are plenty of non-Fishbed and even non-Soviet airplane models kits to care about. Edited September 23, 2009 by Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaydar Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 EXCUSE ME, but did anybody notice the wiring and the LED ligting?????? That is so cool. I am definitely in for a late gen bis. joe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
172flogger Posted September 24, 2009 Author Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) And as Laurent has noted, the debate over the shape of the intakes between the 3rd and 4th gen MiGs is inconclusive at best. There is a perception that something is different, but I'm going to trust that with Eduard's access to all variants within a short distance of their location in the Czech republic (since the Czechs never operated the bis that I'm aware of), they were able to conclusively determine that there wasn't a difference.Paul Czechoslovak Air Force operated 3 different MF variants + MFN: -+ MIG-21MFN was some MF with avionics upgraded for NATO NATINADS MF: - early MIG-21MA upgraded to MF standards (MIG-21MA was officialy "MIG-21M variant A") - standard MIG-21MF from Moscow plant - late MIG-21MF, 1975, from Gorky plant. These twenty planes was MF/Bis hybrid with some Bis panels and avionics. Differences between the original and late/1975 versions are described in the journal Novinky MPM no. 47-2009 http://www.periodik.cz/predplatne/casopis....v&titul=120 MF/MFN from Prague Kbely museum are basic for Eduard drawing and the new kit. Czechs realy never operated the Bis. Eduards but inspected real Bis and SMT in foreign museums. I forgot the location and country, maybe somewhere in the Baltics. Edited September 24, 2009 by 172flogger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) Differences between the original and late/1975 versions are described in the journal Novinky MPM no. 47-2009 http://www.periodik.cz/predplatne/casopis....v&titul=120 In case you have this issue, would you please explain us the differences ? This magazine is difficult to find out of Czech Republic and I wouldn't buy a magazine written in a language I cannot understand. Is the plane at Prague Kbely one of the twenty MF-bis hybrids ? Edited September 24, 2009 by Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Petarvu Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Some photos from Eduard Eday presentation: http://modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37797 I am getting each and one of them, I might even go Royal Class here :) ! GREAT NEWS! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
musangpulut Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Wow! I also cant wait for this release! It's doesnt matter if there is a few panel lines errors or nose cone shape thingy.No body will ever notice it except a MiG pilot & a few experts. I can live with that as long as it's look like MiG-21 and surpassed the OEZ & Academy kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DonSS3 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Looks really nice, but I really wish they'd gone for the 1st Generation aircraft first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedStar Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 MF/MFN from Prague Kbely museum are basic for Eduard drawing and the new kit.Czechs realy never operated the Bis. Eduards but inspected real Bis and SMT in foreign museums. I forgot the location and country, maybe somewhere in the Baltics. That last sentence is exactly what I was saying - while the Czechs never operated the bis or SMT variants, they would have been able to travel relatively short distances - over to Serbia for the bis, and to any number of Russian museums for the SMT - I know their research practices are good, Bf109E-4 canopy aside (which I believe was an honest mistake), so I will trust that they've carefully measured the differences between the 3rd and 4th gen MiG-21s. As myself and others have stated, the panel lines don't bother me, as I can fix those easily. The nose shape, so long as it's accurate, is the biggest concern. And from what I see, it looks superb. Obviously we won't really know until the kit comes out some time mid-next year, but even until that point, what I've seen in the link above gives me great reason to be excited. The kit is CLEARLY going to be an improvement over the Academy and old OEZ kits! And yes, I did notice the LED wiring, and similar features. Frankly that's cool, but I hope it's an option for a separate line of kits, as frankly I'd rather not pay for the extra in all the kits that I would plan to do. Obviously it would be cool to do in one, but not in ALL the MiG-21s that I plan to build - and I have to believe something like that will add, not inconsiderably, to the expense of the kit. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hoops Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 The LED rig was being previewed for the Royal Class boxing as far as I can tell. Hoops Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JasonB Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Ok, excuse my ignorance here, or perhaps I am missing something,but is all this speculation and hoohah based on only the CAD drawings and parts map? If so, I think we have reached an all time stretch for judging the (possible) pluses and minuses of a (potential but not yet in existence) kit. I thought it was bad when commentary began based on fuzzy photographs of test shots. This is like getting engaged to be married and setting your wedding date for several years in the future-who knows what will happen between now and then, so why bother? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Ok, excuse my ignorance here, or perhaps I am missing something,but is all this speculation and hoohah based on only the CAD drawings and parts map? If so, I think we have reached an all time stretch for judging the (possible) pluses and minuses of a (potential but not yet in existence) kit. I thought it was bad when commentary began based on fuzzy photographs of test shots. This is like getting engaged to be married and setting your wedding date for several years in the future-who knows what will happen between now and then, so why bother? My question to you is: Why not? Seriously, this is happening each time and getting old. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JasonB Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Because there's really nothing there. Its a drawing for cryin' out loud. Besides, regardless of what is actually released, someone is going to find something wrong with it that makes it unacceptable, and rail about how they screwed it up again. I would say its just a model, but in this case its not even that. Ok, how about "its only a drawing." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Because there's really nothing there. Its a drawing for cryin' out loud. Besides, regardless of what is actually released, someone is going to find something wrong with it that makes it unacceptable, and rail about how they screwed it up again. I would say its just a model, but in this case its not even that. Ok, how about "its only a drawing." Live and let live. Again, we have been through this. And bad discussions always start like this... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vrsa Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 As I've already said, I'm not a panel line guy. The panel lines of the wing are different. There are photographic evidences that shows this. If the guys in charge of the project maintain their words (if they have really said them) that the panel lines are the same, there's a problem of relationship between the guys and their customers. That's the only thing that bother me. I agree that the panel line issue is minor and that it's very easily fixable. There is something but it doesn't really matter.It isn't the millimeter of the intake itself that matters to me but the impact of this millimeter over the whole nose. I'll be buying at least one kit and perhaps others especially if they do a 2nd gen MiG (sleeker looking and I like the various curves of the spine). I have to confess that I'm not impatient as there are plenty of non-Fishbed and even non-Soviet airplane models kits to care about. I agree with Laurent on this one. Also I would like to add that this is not a atempt to attack Eduard. I very much love their products. We are just pointing out a potential small errors. Why cant we strive to a better product. I'm still gona buy them, but if it can be better, why not try to point out the potential parts that can be made better. When is a better time to do this if not now. The CAD drawings can be changed, but the molds, very hard. Saying that their is no difference is not true, but saying that the difference is negligible or very expecive & hard to produce, would make more sence to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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