1/48 Eduard MIG-21 MF Bis SMT

[bungynik]

Are you 100% sure ? 'Red 45' and 'blue 22' same aircrafts?

Yep! It was not unusual practice. Former monument, the plane of Altenburg, Ser. No. 50022121, restored in 2003, when the paint washed off, his first number "60" appeared under.

I'm researching "22" aircraft for some time and I'm not saying that I know his full story, so any new information is very welcome.

But, the basic reason for introduction of new designation 50bis, is the new engine R25-300 and accompanying changes in fuselage. The dorsal fuel tank doesn't have anything with changing of izdelye number from 50 to 50bis.

Complete misunderstanding of my post.

All modifications were - like the bigger inlet, R-25 engine, airframes's structural reinforcments etc. - because of low level dogfight.

I am sure, you know the original Russian definition of the MiG-21bis.

Ah, OK! You were talking about introduction of R25-300 and fuselage changes in general and not about that particular aircraft. Misunderstanding.

Was an older story...there were the standard SMT airframes with smaller 'bis-spintank'. Straight from factory.

When I said switching from big to small dorsal tank, I have meant switching in production. Yes, small tank SMTs were all newly built aircraft.

Edited August 5, 2011 by bungynik

[11bee]

NO.

It was operational aircraft, previously served in 16.VA in GDR.

She had structural damages in the airframe - too many G's in ACM - our pilots used for cockpit training only.

46 of the late production SMT's had the bigger intake and the R-25 engine, plus many of the structural reinforcements of the -21bis. These 'birds were tuned for low-level dogfight...

Also, there were many SMT's with the smaller 'bis-spintank', but this is public already.

I thought the SMT was a "pig" as far as handling went because it had the extra fuel and was optimized for the nuclear strike role (kind of like a Soviet version of the F-101A).

I still think the SMT is most intriguing version out of the entire series and I look forward to building this one.

John

[Booga]

So bort 22 is a SMT-based bis prototype after all?

[Laurent]

Months ago I gave links to a Polish forum thread and there were photos of aircrafts under maintenance. The spine was removed and it appeared that the fuselage was entirely skinned (including where the spine was attached to) . It suggests two things:

- the spine isn't a 100% reliable indication of the type number

- the tubular R-25 nose would be: the nose contributes to the structural integrity of the fuslage

I rather like the idea of izd 50bis being found in two kinds: "bis-spinned" (so they would have been almost undistinguishable from izd 75 planes) or "SMT-spinned" (for units expected to deliver "special ordnance" and who required range increase but no dogfighting capabilities).

All these are just educated guesses.

Is the serial number of Red 45 photographed by Alexander Danilin known ?

Edited August 6, 2011 by Laurent

[RobertS]

Judging by the fact that the aircraft has an old emergency pitot TA-156, after a series of tests he was no longer flying. On all operational MiG-21s old PA-7 and TP-156 were replaced in the early 70's.

On all operational MiG-21s old PA-7 and TP-156 were replaced in the early 70's.

I think this statement was not based on your own research, it sounds like a quote from one of the 'fine' MiG-21books.

In the VVS there were a lot of operational '21s with the older pitot, even in the '80s, even in Afghanistan.

Just a quick selection, public photos, all from the Russian Net >

I'm researching "22" aircraft for some time and I'm not saying that I know his full story, so any new information is very welcome.

I can give you many more data later...summertime. I am on holiday, documents at home...

Some scanned oldies are here on my notebook:

One of my old friends flew in Kuschevskoye in the mid '70s. Here is a slide from him >

In 1974(75?) fortysome MiG-21SMTs arrived to there from two different frontline units(Merseburg and ?). Few of these flew there to mid summer. He told me, 'blue 22' was one of these SMTs. They were used for nuke-training for WP-pilots. Also same course at Byeroza on SMTs.

In the mid-late '70s it was common practice, frontline units sent their planes to Kuschevskoye. Many 16.VA MiG-21bis flew in 'Kuso' also etc...

Edited August 6, 2011 by RobertS

[RobertS]

But, the basic reason for introduction of new designation 50bis, is the new engine R25-300 and accompanying changes in fuselage. The dorsal fuel tank doesn't have anything with changing of izdelye number from 50 to 50bis.

As I know, many of the late production SMTs with smaller spintank had the bis-wing and some other structural reinforcements. 515.iap. planes for example.

[Pieter]

Hats off for you guys...wish I knew that much of this beautiful plane.

I hope that one day you together can give us, who have less knowledge, the final "picture" how we can build an allmost perfect Mig-21 and I hope you will do it for all the versions

It's a pleasure to read these Mig-21 tropics

Thanks,

Pieter

[RobertS]

I thought the SMT was a "pig" as far as handling

I have doubts.

Some pilots told yes, some no

Even a well respected Russian test-pilot...

I did serious research with old pilots for a book about the very intensive Soviet ACT program, the '500s'.

Most of the pilots, who flew these exercises in the period 1970-76, flew these with -21PFM -21SM -21SMT -21bis, later many of them went to MiG-23M in mid-late '70s. There were a lot of low level 'playings' SMT vs bis, SMT vs PFM-SM, SMT vs -23M. I think the truth is at these pilots.

The book will 'kill' some urban-legends about the '21 :)

Edited August 6, 2011 by RobertS

[Laurent]

The book will 'kill' some urban-legends about the '21 :)

You are one of the guys who want to strangle Yefim Gordon ? :)

How will the book be distributed (I'm talking about the English version).

[RobertS]

You are one of the guys who want to strangle Yefim Gordon ? :)

:) :) :)

He is publishing a lot of 'books'.

I am working on only two.

(with a Russian co-author)

How will the book be distributed (I'm talking about the English version).

Two years ago, I thought - the book ready to print. Now, I hope in next year...

[ijozic]

I did serious research with old pilots for a book about the very intensive Soviet ACT program, the '500s' for a book.

Most of the pilots, who flew these exercises in the period 1970-76, flew these with -21PFM -21SM -21SMT -21bis, many of them went to MiG-23M in mid-late '70s. There were a lot of low level 'playings' SMT vs bis, SMT vs PFM-SM, SMT vs -23M. I think the truth is at these pilots.

The book will 'kill' some urban-legends about the '21 :)

A very interesting topic for a book, I'd say (though you never know with old pilots and their memories). Will the book focus on the earlier Cold War period, or it will cover similar training programs from the 80s, as well? Please say yes :)

[RobertS]

Very tipical in this topic >

We are in 2011, and we(you and the Russians too) are guessing about the details of a subvariant - izd.50bis - of the 'well known' MiG-21 :)

Something, like IF:

Heey guys! Did you know ? There were the F-4DG subtype, fortysome produced, all served in Hahn and Spangdahlem in the mid '70s. Looks like F-4D? Or looks like F-4G? :)

Please, thinking about this for 2 minutes...this is the quality of the current public data about the '21. In 2011!

There are some foggy details even of the production variants.

And what was going on on the Soviet airbases in GDR ? In the 'Soviet Top-Gun' in the '70s ? My favorite topic.

And sorry, my English is really basic.

Edited August 6, 2011 by RobertS

[RobertS]

A very interesting topic for a book, I'd say (though you never know with old pilots and their memories). Will the book focus on the earlier Cold War period, or it will cover similar training programs from the 80s, as well? Please say yes :)

'MiG-21 in service' - Book will very strong with data from the early-mid '70s. Original ACT documents, plus data from pilot- and aircraft logbooks, hundreds of never before published photos straight from pilots and techs only, mainly nice colour-slides, even from 'Russian Top-Gun', Nam, Mid-East, WP exercises, live-firings etc....

or it will cover similar training programs from the 80s, as well? Please say yes :)

If you can meet with many older pilots and techs, you can collect a lot of data, photos about the WP. There are some plans for the future....

But I must to say - if something is 'newer' than the MiG-23, that is boring for me :)

Edited August 6, 2011 by RobertS

[bungynik]

Is the serial number of Red 45 photographed by Alexander Danilin known ?

Of course:

As u can see, it is 500АЧ22

Edited August 6, 2011 by bungynik

[Dingo]

Hi Robert!

I really can't wait for your books to be published-count me in forall of them!

Cheers!

Edited August 6, 2011 by Dingo

[Jennings]

I will be looking forward to seeing your book! Please keep us informed on your progress on it.

J

[bungynik]

I think this statement was not based on your own research, it sounds like a quote from one of the 'fine' MiG-21books.

In the VVS there were a lot of operational '21s with the older pitot, even in the '80s, even in Afghanistan.

Ahh, misunderstanding. We were talking about SMT, so I have refereed to SMT(and SM). when I speak about old pitot ТП-156. My mistake, I was not precise enough. According to information I have collected, MiG-21SM and SMT already were issued with pitot (ПВД) 18-5М и PVD(ПВД)-7.

[11bee]

'MiG-21 in service' - Book will very strong with data from the early-mid '70s. Original ACT documents, plus data from pilot- and aircraft logbooks, hundreds of never before published photos straight from pilots and techs only, mainly nice colour-slides, even from 'Russian Top-Gun', Nam, Mid-East, WP exercises, live-firings etc....

I'd be very interested in knowing more about the Soviet Aggressor program that flew out of Mary AB in Kazakhstan in the 80's. I've only seen a couple of pictures of the aircraft based there and it was difficult to see if they had any "special" paint schemes. This book sounds fascinating.

[11bee]

Unfortunately yes :(

Few from my archives are here:

My link

Sorry about the quality, I scanned these from old 'home-made' paperprints.

You have some awesome looking SMT paint schemes in your archives. I like the vodka-induced variations :) . Hopefully we'll get some aftermarket decals for the SMT in the future.

[RobertS]

Ahh, misunderstanding. We were talking about SMT, so I have refereed to SMT(and SM). when I speak about old pitot ТП-156. My mistake, I was not precise enough. According to information I have collected, MiG-21SM and SMT already were issued with pitot (ПВД) 18-5М и PVD(ПВД)-7.

On the photos in my archives - SM with old pitot

SMT - both, unfortunately I have many left-side shots

[ijozic]

If you can meet with many older pilots and techs, you can collect a lot of data, photos about the WP. There are some plans for the future....

But I must to say - if something is 'newer' than the MiG-23, that is boring for me :)

Well, 80s brought MiG-29 and Su-27 and their tech is really more advanced than latest MiG-23 versions. Only the MiG-31 had a much more advanced radar. It would be great to get some first hand experience on how effective the systems on these aircraft were compared to their predecessors as the books on such topics are rather obscure.

[bungynik]

On the photos in my archives - SM with old pitot

SMT - both, unfortunately I have many left-side shots

I would like to see these photos. I have only with new pitot.

But you are right for one thing, much more port side photos of SMT! :)

[F4DPhantomII]

Just got my Eduard Mig-21MF and Mig-21SMT today they are nice kits!

[jester292]

Dang right they're nice kits! I wish I had time to build several of each!

Aaron

[Booga]

I'd be very interested in knowing more about the Soviet Aggressor program that flew out of Mary AB in Kazakhstan in the 80's. I've only seen a couple of pictures of the aircraft based there and it was difficult to see if they had any "special" paint schemes. This book sounds fascinating.

AFAIK they didn't have special schemes such as their US counterparts do. Some aircraft had art (sharkmouth, badges) but the paint schemes were standard for the type (MiG-23/29), the only difference was that they had a white or yellow ID stripe on the fuselage or tail.