ya-gabor Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Hi Laurent, I believe modell making is about building a scale replica of the original. I have this view not only as a modeller but also as a modell producer, designer, researcher. An injection moulded plastic, resin, vac-form modell should be a scale replica of the real aircraft and not just "something that looks like, similar to the particular aircraft" with lots of mistakes that the modellers will have to correct for himself. It is very unfortunate when the modeller has to correct all the things on the kit based on photos, polls, wrong drawings, a "feeling of the aircraft" (whether it is correct or not). . . Correcting mistakes and adding detail are two very different things. The first is the job of the modell producer the second is for the modell maker/builder. Concerning photos I see what I can do. Concerning posting them is another thing which I dont realy like but will see . . . I have an idea of the type of photo I want to make to show the comparison but I have to work out the details on that. As to my archive I have found yesterday some photos from way back when the MiG-21 was still active, there could be some better ones but . . . (it takes some time to go over tens of thousands of negatives from the past 35 years). Made some blow-ups of the particular detail interesting for us. Eduard in the INFO (back in March) commented on the Berlin MiG-21 bis that it has a different intake, so they know about it, they have measured it independently from any outside input. What the result of this all we will see. Lets see what will be in the Eduard box in December. One note about the cover of the box: the name of the aircraft should be MiG-21 bis (as the Russians have named their aircraft) and not BIS. But it is a minor point, the plastic is more important. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Hi Gabor. I believe modell making is about building a scale replica of the original. I have this view not only as a modeller but also as a modell producer, designer, researcher. An injection moulded plastic, resin, vac-form modell should be a scale replica of the real aircraft and not just "something that looks like, similar to the particular aircraft" with lots of mistakes that the modellers will have to correct for himself. It is very unfortunate when the modeller has to correct all the things on the kit based on photos, polls, wrong drawings, a "feeling of the aircraft" (whether it is correct or not). . . Correcting mistakes and adding detail are two very different things. The first is the job of the modell producer the second is for the modell maker/builder. I propose that we stop exchanging opinions but concentrate on information. Concerning photos I see what I can do. Concerning posting them is another thing which I dont realy like but will see . . .I have an idea of the type of photo I want to make to show the comparison but I have to work out the details on that. As to my archive I have found yesterday some photos from way back when the MiG-21 was still active, there could be some better ones but . . . (it takes some time to go over tens of thousands of negatives from the past 35 years). Made some blow-ups of the particular detail interesting for us. Please the photos. Plplplplplease Lets see what will be in the Eduard box in December. One note about the cover of the box: the name of the aircraft should be MiG-21 bis (as the Russians have named their aircraft) and not BIS. But it is a minor point, the plastic is more important. You're right it isn't important. Same situation with the Dassault Mirage. Many write Mirage V when it should be Mirage 5. Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Libor H Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Mig-21bis final sprue testing http://www.eduard.com/blog/mig-21bis-final-sprue-testing/ I was just about to post it here, so thanks!:) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Libor H Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 as it is written in Eduard's blog : "These are the main parts which make MiG-21BIS different from other MiG-21 versions. " ... my hopes to see new fuselage parts vanishing slowly... i'm pretty sure that if they'd done it, they'll show us by now... where is Libor to give us a clue... I'm right here! :) By phrasing of that sentence, I didn't want to take your hopes away. So here's the clue: The intake ring is quite different from the other versions and we DID accommodate kit according to this fact. We will publish more information about our MiG-21 BIS during next two weeks - articles, photos and images will be posted on Eduard Blog and in December's Info Eduard Editorial. We will also post information (at least links) on our Facebook, as well as here on ARC forums. Planned articles on MiG-21 BIS topic are: MiG-21 BIS - changes on tooling and what had to be done MiG-21 BIS - standalone article on fuselage and intake dimensions (+ information in December's Info Eduard Editorial) MiG-21 BIS - article about Brassin sets for this kit MiG-21 BIS - article about separate photo-etched detail set that will be released in the beginning of 2012 MiG-21 BIS - markings we've picked for the first ProfiPACK release of this kit From what I can read in this thread, those articles will enlighten most of the questions posted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Libor H Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 1) perhaps he's got something else to do 2) perhaps ARC forums is a less important communication media than Facebook or a blog for Eduard 3) perhaps he doesn't post because he'd have to say something that would disappoint a number of people Reminder: "do the MFand bis noses look different ?" poll. 58% voters said yes. Actually I'm trying to do my best to stick with all modelers communities all over the www. During the launch of our new websites, I didn't have much time for paying any attention to modeling forums and stuff, which is still true by the time of writing this. I'm sorry for this guys, as your opinions and thoughts are as important to us, as those on our blog or Facebook. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Excellent Libor. Look forward to read all those blogs. Btw, i remember MiG-15 had release date around September. We are way past September, but i don't remember reading any new date, or why it wasn't released on September. Could you shed any light on this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Libor H Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Excellent Libor. Look forward to read all those blogs. Btw, i remember MiG-15 had release date around September. We are way past September, but i don't remember reading any new date, or why it wasn't released on September. Could you shed any light on this? The MiG-15 project has been postponed and we won't revive it anytime soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) Hi Laurent, Isnt this forum and ARC about exchanging opinions? The way we see the hobby, the kits? I am sad to see that no photo, measurement or information would change whats inside the box! So there is little point in publishing anything. This is my opinion. Best regards Gabor Edited November 13, 2011 by ya-gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 He's aliiiiiive ! Thank you for the update Libor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 The MiG-15 project has been postponed and we won't revive it anytime soon. That is a shame. Airfix one is terrible, Hobby Boss one is ok, but not as detailed as Eduard would have made it. Thank you for information though. Look forward to getting those R-27's and MiG-29 exhaust. And bis kit of course! :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 He's aliiiiiive ! Thank you for the update Libor +1 here! We really appreciate! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) Hi Gabor. Isnt this forum and ARC about exchanging opinions? The way we see the hobby, the kits? "Opinions are like a**holes. Everybody's got one" (Dirty Harry). When a discussion is about accuracy, opinions are useless. It's facts that are needed, photographs... I am sad to see that no photo, measurement or information would change whats inside the box! So there is little point in publishing anything. This is my opinion. ... that you refuse to provide. Because of that I'm sad too. Best regards. Laurent Edited November 13, 2011 by Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 What is the point of this philosophical blabber Laurent? There is plenty of pictures of bis, and there is plenty of pictures of MF. Aaaaand there is plenty of information about the nose difference. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) Aaaaand there is plenty of information about the nose difference. There are photographs showing the fact that the bis intake is slightly shorter (Supertom's demo, the "Hungarian photograph") and there are measurements to prove this quantitatively. AFAIK there's nothing that shows that the whole nose is different and what's exactly the difference. Edited November 13, 2011 by Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pollie Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 So...since Libor checked in again; what is next on Eduard's agenda: the PFM or the R??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 They haven't said, and I doubt you're going to hear it here first :) My bet would be the R or perhaps an S/M boxing (no parts required, just leaving things off and new decals). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) My bet would be the R or perhaps an S/M boxing (no parts required, just leaving things off and new decals). I believe that some panel lines are different between the MF and the S/R but I'm not sure that a lot of people would care about that. The R would require an additional sprue with reconnaissance pods, wingtip RWR antennas and 2nd generation main instrument panel. Edited November 14, 2011 by Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pollie Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I believe that some panel lines are different between the MF and the S/R but I'm not sure that a lot of people would care about that. The R would require an additional sprue with reconnaissance pods, wingtip RWR antennas and 2nd generation main instrument panel. Yes, but the PFM would also require a new sprue with the spine and gunpack. So for either version, plastic needs to be molded. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pollie Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I went back and read the April newsletter of Eduard: OK...on to the bottom line. ItĂąâŹâąs a differentdamned animal. Behind the stainless intake ring, there is a diameter difference of 22mm, with the ĂąâŹËBISĂąâŹâą being bigger. No big wup, in scale, that amounts to about 0.4mm. WhatĂąâŹâąs worse, though, is that an approximately 15cm section of the nose has a different shape, the transformation from a circular section to an elliptical takes on a different form, period. So, we are conducting the relevant changes. Hopefully, weĂąâŹâąll get it done by Christmas. And, while weĂąâŹâąre at it, weĂąâŹâąll tackle the other versions as well; PF, PFM, and probably the F as well. So if they stick to their own word it will be just a matter of patience Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Libor H Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I went back and read the April newsletter of Eduard: So if they stick to their own word it will be just a matter of patience Thanks for posting this piece of information here. Yes, we did stick to our promise. Yes, you "just" need to be really patient;) Our new baby's coming out soon, and she's gonna have a brand new nose. BIS nose. Today we've settled on that we will release complete information regarding this topic next week. We just need to prepare the post for you guys. Thanks to all of you for keeping this topic alive! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Dear Sir, Dear Libor H, If you substrackt 870 mm from 905 mm what do you get??? Is it 22mm? Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pollie Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Dear Sir, Dear Libor H, If you substrackt 870 mm from 905 mm what do you get??? Is it 22mm? Best regards Gabor I sincerely hope that is a rhetorical question, Gabor! If the difference is really 35mm, and Eduard has it as 22mm, than that is a difference of 13mm, which amounts to roughly 0,25mm difference in the 1/48 model. I can live with that! Hopefully we will see an announcement for the R or PFM early in the new year. Or am I going too fast? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Thanks for posting this piece of information here. Yes, we did stick to our promise. Yes, you "just" need to be really patient;) Our new baby's coming out soon, and she's gonna have a brand new nose. BIS nose. Today we've settled on that we will release complete information regarding this topic next week. We just need to prepare the post for you guys. Thanks to all of you for keeping this topic alive! Thank you so much, Libor, for keeping in touch with us! now i know that i'm gonna have one for me under the Christmas tree! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Libor H Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Dear Sir, Dear Libor H, If you substrackt 870 mm from 905 mm what do you get??? Is it 22mm? Best regards Gabor Sorry Gabor, but I can't see the point of your question. Please give us some time to prepare the article about this and let's continue discussing this afterwards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
-Neu- Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I know several people have already asked; but after the amazing job you guys did on the F6F Hellcat, I would love to see a 1/72 version of this kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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