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1/48 Eduard MIG-21 MF Bis SMT


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Hi Laurent,

I believe modell making is about building a scale replica of the original. I have this view not only as a modeller but also as a modell producer, designer, researcher. An injection moulded plastic, resin, vac-form modell should be a scale replica of the real aircraft and not just "something that looks like, similar to the particular aircraft" with lots of mistakes that the modellers will have to correct for himself. It is very unfortunate when the modeller has to correct all the things on the kit based on photos, polls, wrong drawings, a "feeling of the aircraft" (whether it is correct or not). . . Correcting mistakes and adding detail are two very different things. The first is the job of the modell producer the second is for the modell maker/builder.

Concerning photos I see what I can do. Concerning posting them is another thing which I dont realy like but will see . . .

I have an idea of the type of photo I want to make to show the comparison but I have to work out the details on that. As to my archive I have found yesterday some photos from way back when the MiG-21 was still active, there could be some better ones but . . . (it takes some time to go over tens of thousands of negatives from the past 35 years). Made some blow-ups of the particular detail interesting for us.

Eduard in the INFO (back in March) commented on the Berlin MiG-21 bis that it has a different intake, so they know about it, they have measured it independently from any outside input. What the result of this all we will see.

Lets see what will be in the Eduard box in December. One note about the cover of the box: the name of the aircraft should be MiG-21 bis (as the Russians have named their aircraft) and not BIS. But it is a minor point, the plastic is more important.

Best regards

Gabor

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Hi Gabor.

I believe modell making is about building a scale replica of the original. I have this view not only as a modeller but also as a modell producer, designer, researcher. An injection moulded plastic, resin, vac-form modell should be a scale replica of the real aircraft and not just "something that looks like, similar to the particular aircraft" with lots of mistakes that the modellers will have to correct for himself. It is very unfortunate when the modeller has to correct all the things on the kit based on photos, polls, wrong drawings, a "feeling of the aircraft" (whether it is correct or not). . . Correcting mistakes and adding detail are two very different things. The first is the job of the modell producer the second is for the modell maker/builder.

I propose that we stop exchanging opinions but concentrate on information.

Concerning photos I see what I can do. Concerning posting them is another thing which I dont realy like but will see . . .

I have an idea of the type of photo I want to make to show the comparison but I have to work out the details on that. As to my archive I have found yesterday some photos from way back when the MiG-21 was still active, there could be some better ones but . . . (it takes some time to go over tens of thousands of negatives from the past 35 years). Made some blow-ups of the particular detail interesting for us.

Please the photos. Plplplplplease pray.gif

Lets see what will be in the Eduard box in December. One note about the cover of the box: the name of the aircraft should be MiG-21 bis (as the Russians have named their aircraft) and not BIS. But it is a minor point, the plastic is more important.

You're right it isn't important. Same situation with the Dassault Mirage. Many write Mirage V when it should be Mirage 5.

Laurent

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as it is written in Eduard's blog : "These are the main parts which make MiG-21BIS different from other MiG-21 versions. " ... my hopes to see new fuselage parts vanishing slowly...

i'm pretty sure that if they'd done it, they'll show us by now...

where is Libor to give us a clue...

I'm right here! :)

By phrasing of that sentence, I didn't want to take your hopes away. So here's the clue:

The intake ring is quite different from the other versions and we DID accommodate kit according to this fact.

We will publish more information about our MiG-21 BIS during next two weeks - articles, photos and images will be posted on Eduard Blog and in December's Info Eduard Editorial.

We will also post information (at least links) on our Facebook, as well as here on ARC forums.

Planned articles on MiG-21 BIS topic are:

  • MiG-21 BIS - changes on tooling and what had to be done
  • MiG-21 BIS - standalone article on fuselage and intake dimensions (+ information in December's Info Eduard Editorial)
  • MiG-21 BIS - article about Brassin sets for this kit
  • MiG-21 BIS - article about separate photo-etched detail set that will be released in the beginning of 2012
  • MiG-21 BIS - markings we've picked for the first ProfiPACK release of this kit

From what I can read in this thread, those articles will enlighten most of the questions posted.

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1) perhaps he's got something else to do

2) perhaps ARC forums is a less important communication media than Facebook or a blog for Eduard

3) perhaps he doesn't post because he'd have to say something that would disappoint a number of people

Reminder: "do the MFand bis noses look different ?" poll. 58% voters said yes.

Actually I'm trying to do my best to stick with all modelers communities all over the www.

During the launch of our new websites, I didn't have much time for paying any attention to modeling forums and stuff, which is still true by the time of writing this.

I'm sorry for this guys, as your opinions and thoughts are as important to us, as those on our blog or Facebook.

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Excellent Libor. Look forward to read all those blogs. :thumbsup:

Btw, i remember MiG-15 had release date around September. We are way past September, but i don't remember reading any new date, or why it wasn't released on September. Could you shed any light on this?

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Excellent Libor. Look forward to read all those blogs. :thumbsup:

Btw, i remember MiG-15 had release date around September. We are way past September, but i don't remember reading any new date, or why it wasn't released on September. Could you shed any light on this?

The MiG-15 project has been postponed and we won't revive it anytime soon.

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Hi Laurent,

Isnt this forum and ARC about exchanging opinions? The way we see the hobby, the kits?

I am sad to see that no photo, measurement or information would change whats inside the box! So there is little point in publishing anything. This is my opinion.

Best regards

Gabor

Edited by ya-gabor
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The MiG-15 project has been postponed and we won't revive it anytime soon.

That is a shame. Airfix one is terrible, Hobby Boss one is ok, but not as detailed as Eduard would have made it. Thank you for information though. Look forward to getting those R-27's and MiG-29 exhaust. And bis kit of course! :)

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Hi Gabor.

Isnt this forum and ARC about exchanging opinions? The way we see the hobby, the kits?

"Opinions are like a**holes. Everybody's got one" (Dirty Harry). When a discussion is about accuracy, opinions are useless. It's facts that are needed, photographs...

I am sad to see that no photo, measurement or information would change whats inside the box! So there is little point in publishing anything. This is my opinion.

... that you refuse to provide. Because of that I'm sad too.

Best regards.

Laurent

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What is the point of this philosophical blabber Laurent? There is plenty of pictures of bis, and there is plenty of pictures of MF. Aaaaand there is plenty of information about the nose difference.

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Aaaaand there is plenty of information about the nose difference.

There are photographs showing the fact that the bis intake is slightly shorter (Supertom's demo, the "Hungarian photograph") and there are measurements to prove this quantitatively. AFAIK there's nothing that shows that the whole nose is different and what's exactly the difference.

Edited by Laurent
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My bet would be the R or perhaps an S/M boxing (no parts required, just leaving things off and new decals).

I believe that some panel lines are different between the MF and the S/R but I'm not sure that a lot of people would care about that.

The R would require an additional sprue with reconnaissance pods, wingtip RWR antennas and 2nd generation main instrument panel.

Edited by Laurent
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I believe that some panel lines are different between the MF and the S/R but I'm not sure that a lot of people would care about that.

The R would require an additional sprue with reconnaissance pods, wingtip RWR antennas and 2nd generation main instrument panel.

Yes, but the PFM would also require a new sprue with the spine and gunpack. So for either version, plastic needs to be molded.

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I went back and read the April newsletter of Eduard:

OK...on to the bottom line. Itñ€ℱs a different

damned animal. Behind the stainless intake ring,

there is a diameter difference of 22mm, with

the ñ€˜BISñ€ℱ being bigger. No big wup, in scale, that

amounts to about 0.4mm. Whatñ€ℱs worse, though,

is that an approximately 15cm section of the

nose has a different shape, the transformation

from a circular section to an elliptical takes on

a different form, period. So, we are conducting

the relevant changes. Hopefully, weñ€ℱll get it

done by Christmas. And, while weñ€ℱre at it,

weñ€ℱll tackle the other versions as well; PF, PFM,

and probably the F as well.

So if they stick to their own word it will be just a matter of patience :woot.gif:

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I went back and read the April newsletter of Eduard:

So if they stick to their own word it will be just a matter of patience :woot.gif:

Thanks for posting this piece of information here.

Yes, we did stick to our promise.

Yes, you "just" need to be really patient;)

Our new baby's coming out soon, and she's gonna have a brand new nose. BIS nose.

Today we've settled on that we will release complete information regarding this topic next week. We just need to prepare the post for you guys.

Thanks to all of you for keeping this topic alive!

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Dear Sir, Dear Libor H,

If you substrackt 870 mm from 905 mm what do you get??? Is it 22mm?

Best regards

Gabor

I sincerely hope that is a rhetorical question, Gabor!

If the difference is really 35mm, and Eduard has it as 22mm, than that is a difference of 13mm, which amounts to roughly 0,25mm difference in the 1/48 model. I can live with that!

Hopefully we will see an announcement for the R or PFM early in the new year. Or am I going too fast? :woot.gif:

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Thanks for posting this piece of information here.

Yes, we did stick to our promise.

Yes, you "just" need to be really patient;)

Our new baby's coming out soon, and she's gonna have a brand new nose. BIS nose. :banana::nanner::banana:

Today we've settled on that we will release complete information regarding this topic next week. We just need to prepare the post for you guys.

Thanks to all of you for keeping this topic alive!

Thank you so much, Libor, for keeping in touch with us! :thumbsup:

now i know that i'm gonna have one for me under the Christmas tree!

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Dear Sir, Dear Libor H,

If you substrackt 870 mm from 905 mm what do you get??? Is it 22mm?

Best regards

Gabor

Sorry Gabor, but I can't see the point of your question. Please give us some time to prepare the article about this and let's continue discussing this afterwards.

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