Italeri 1:72 SU-33 (aka SU-27D & SU-27K)

[Oroka]

So after a long break from aircraft modeling and a few false starts, I finally got back into the swing of it all.

I went to the nearest hobbyshop (30 mins away ) to see what they had to offer in 1:72 (I chose 1:72 because it is more forgiving with details). They didn't have much, but they had s SU-33 kit for a slightly inflated price, and considering I developed a bit of a Soviet interest in the last 10 years, I went for it.

Fast forward a few weeks and here I am. (Click images for larger resolution)

The kit is nearly done assembily, I just have to put the landing gear together and a few small parts. I plan on painting the gear seperatly and gluing it in after the main body is painted. I am basing my color scheem on the following pictures.

I realize that they pic on the right is a SU-35, but I am not really going for 100% accuracy, just to look good. I can go for perfect accuracy when I get more skills at modeling :)

I am using Delta Ceramcoat acrylic paints as I can get them without driving to the next town, and because there are just so many darn colors! I have a Badger 155 airbrush and I can generally get a nice even coat, but I am certainly not a pro at it.

I am just looking for some critiques, tips, advice, suggestions on my little project here. I fully intend on building more kits once I am done this one (I already bought a Italeri F-4S and a Hobbycraft MiG-29 (yeah, I know HC is crap), and am actively looking for a F-15E kit to convert into a F-15SE.

I will post more specific questions shortly.

Edited October 5, 2009 by Oroka

[TimEarls]

Hey, that's pretty slick! Love what you done with the cockpit.

[sv51macross]

I know you're not going for 100% accuracy, but you aren't fixing the wing area issue or the canards?

And as for the F-15E in 1:72...best idea would get an Airfix and Haegawa kits and bash the two together, then scratchbuild all the details. (not alot of hope in 1:72 for that plane :) )

[Berkut]

Not the most accurate model of that aircraft, but hey, at same time, there isn't any availiable at all.

Great job so far on the kit. Just one constructive criticism: The famous green color is not present on Su-33 (or MiG-29 and Su-27 and other modern russian aircrafts. MiG-31 is exception).

Welcome back to the hobby, enjoy it. :)

[Oroka]

I know you're not going for 100% accuracy, but you aren't fixing the wing area issue or the canards?

While the answer will probably be 'no', I'm almost scared to ask. I am assuming it is a kit deficiency, not something I screwed up :D If so, I really don't want to jump too deep into repairing problems with the kit design. That is a bit too advanced for me yet. One step at a time :)

And as for the F-15E in 1:72...best idea would get an Airfix and Haegawa kits and bash the two together, then scratchbuild all the details. (not alot of hope in 1:72 for that plane :( )

Again, too advanced. I just want to learn to fill gaps and paint cleanly before I start counting rivets. I wont be entering these in any conventions! (BTW, I am doing a 'Silent Eagle' not a 'Strike Eagle').

The famous green color is not present on Su-33 (or MiG-29 and Su-27 and other modern russian aircrafts. MiG-31 is exception).

Are you sure, HERE is a pic of a SU-33 cockpit, and a HERE is a SU-27 with the teal cockpit. (Honestly, I thought they might be the same Sukhoi, as both pics were from MAKS 2005, but both are the same photographer, and there is a black cable in the left leg well that is loose in SU-33.

The MiG-29 has a grey cockpit.

Really, the kit manual says to paint the cockpit on the SU-33 (SU-27D as the kit is labled) the same grey as the MiG-29, but while looking for reference pics, every SU-27 cockpit I seen was teal, and the only SU-33 pic I found was also Teal, so, I went with teal.

Hey, that's pretty slick! Love what you done with the cockpit.

Thanks! Back in the day, most of the models I made were Hobbycraft... and IIRC, most kits had no detail in the cockpit, just decals. I felt I could do better with something that actually had some details!

So, I figured that I should post the supplies I am using at the moment.

[sv51macross]

While the answer will probably be 'no', I'm almost scared to ask. I am assuming it is a kit deficiency, not something I screwed up :( If so, I really don't want to jump too deep into repairing problems with the kit design. That is a bit too advanced for me yet. One step at a time :D

It is a kit deficiency. Italeri gave you canards to stick right on the leading-edge chines, the real thing has beefy 'shoulders' built-up to handle them. As for wing area, again Italeri used the normal Su-27 wing, whereas the Su-33 has a wing with greater chord and 'fowler flaps' (like the Hornet)

Again, too advanced. I just want to learn to fill gaps and paint cleanly before I start counting rivets. I wont be entering these in any conventions! (BTW, I am doing a 'Silent Eagle' not a 'Strike Eagle').

Well, then go with the Hasegawa. The thing is, Hasegawa's is really a F-15B with CFTs, and not even all the appropriate pylons. The Airfix has all eight pylons plus other details, but raised panel lines. You're building a Silent Eagle though, so the Hasegawa will be fine, just remember the Strike Eagle details like the RWRs on the tail booms. Those will be the greatest things to fix for what you want. (SE huh? Open weps bays? :) )

[Berkut]

Are you sure, HERE is a pic of a SU-33 cockpit, and a HERE is a SU-27 with the teal cockpit. (Honestly, I thought they might be the same Sukhoi, as both pics were from MAKS 2005, but both are the same photographer, and there is a black cable in the left leg well that is loose in SU-33.

Yes, i am sure, and your pictures just proved my point. :)

Compare:

Su-33:

MiG-21UM:

Your cockpit color is much closer to the MiG-21. The color is blue, without green with it. MiG-21 cockpit have obviously lots of green. But it doesn't matter now anyway. :D

[Oroka]

lol. Honestly, they are just different shades of teal to me, but I was basing it off the images I posted. I used Delta Ceramcoat 'Colonial Blue' as it was the closest, but didnt bother altering the color to match exactly because I thought that once the canopy was on, it would help bring out the color a bit more.

Still, I stand corrected! I never knew there was a brighter teal in some Russian fighters! I promise that I will not paint the cockpit of my MiG-29 any shade of blue or green :)

(Did I mention that darn MiG-29 kit I have is just 'MiG-29'... no actual model, so I am assuming that it is a MiG-29B as it comes with Iraqi decals in addition to the Russian ones.)

SE huh? Open weps bays?

Maybe my first custom mod job :D The vert stabs seem easy enough... just cut and canted out. The doors and the bay would be more of a challenge, but hey, gotta start somewhere.

Edited September 29, 2009 by Oroka

[ranakoshgelam]

Where is Flankerman when you need him?

[Oroka]

Okay, I'm back. Been a busy week, and I am not rushing this model, so progress is slow going.

I got the turbine painted before I glued the exhaust nozzles on, and I have the landing gear (except the wheels) assembled and painted.

So, that pretty much completes 99% of the assembly.

Here are my questions.

First, what is the best way to paint wheels? I just can't get a clean line around the rim. I have read of people using round stencils as masks for airbrushing, but is there any other techniques?

Second, should I glue the canopy on and mask off the windows before I paint, or should I mask off the cockpit and paint the canopy seperate and install it after the aircraft is painted?

Third. Should I pre-shade the panel lines? They dont seem to stand out in my reference photos...

Fourth. Any other tips or advice for me at this stage?

Fifth. Thanks!

[Flankerman]

From :- ranakoshgelam

Where is Flankerman when you need him?

I've been away at my daughter's 30th birthday party......

Oroka.......

I know you are not going for 100% accuracy - and I am not criticising in any way - but your Flanker isn't even 50% like a Su-33.

You're doing a grea job with the Italeri 'Flanker D' - but it looks about as much like a Su-33 as I look like Robert Redford

The Su-33 (and all 'canarded' Flankers) have a big 'shoulder' extending forward from the wing roots - on which the canard is mounted, not just tacked onto the existing LERX like Italeri's kit.

It also has a bigger wing - with triple-slotted flaps as well as the wing fold.

The tail boom is shortened - and flattened underneath where the tailhook is mounted.

The IRST on the windscreen is offset to stbd - to make way for an IFR probe to port.

The front gear has twin wheels, the main legs are beefed up, the tailplanes fold - etc etc....

But, like you say - if you are happy with what you are doing, then that's what modelling is for - enjoyment.

Good luck with the model.....

Ken

PS - If you want to make a 'real' model Su-33 - then check out my build over on Linden Hill's site.

[Oroka]

Yeah, once sv51macross pointed out that it was woefully deficient, I started comparing pics and I started noticing the differences.

Maybe I should just pop the canards off... I would do it, and send a dis-satisfied e-mail to Italeri.

Is there a non-canard SU-27 variant that has double wheeled nose gear? I dont think I want to invest in after market parts at this point in the project, or maybe the nose gear is a better omision than big inaccurate canards.

I will probably revisit this kit at some point in the future, when my skills are more up to the challenge.

Anyone have any comments on my other questions, or even just links to good instructionals?

[DutyCat]

I remember buying this kit in the UK when visiting back in 1990 or so. This was before it reached hobby shops in the US. I built it up all nice and pretty and took 2nd at a regional show. Later, when some good photos came out in Koku-Fan, I saw how inaccurate it was. The addition of a tailhook, butt glued canards, a modified windscreen, and Navy decals does not a Sea Flanker make. It is a hugely different aircraft.

The thing is, it begs to be kitted properly. It has a LOT of action with the folding surfaces, canards, triple section flaps, and beautiful paint schemes. Even though we have a few acceptable Flanker kits out there, there is no Sea Flanker. Shame the ball has been dropped on this.

Edited October 4, 2009 by DutyCat

[Oroka]

So, no matter what I do, this kit will not be a accurate representation of any real SU-27 huh. Kinda depressing, but at least I can still use it to hone my modeling skills.

Well, I guess I will have to go research the best way to paint a fighter aircraft model.

[Sauragnmon]

Don't bin it for the inaccuracies, finish it up, she's a beautiful piece. Yeah, she's not perfectly accurate, but that's the unfortunate downside - in general, finished, it's a beautiful kit, just has as much accuracy as a pistol on a sniper range. I've got three of the Italeri Su-34's, just because I love the bird, and while it isn't a perfectly accurate copy for a lot of the same deficiencies, there isn't a single other option.

I could only wish some modeling company would get their head out of their sphincter and design the kit with the architecture similar to Ken's proposed kit layout. But that would make too much sense.

As to the doubled nose wheel, maybe some other late-model flankers might have them. I know the 34 does, but the nose gear bay is Entirely different, not to mention the nose etc.

EDIT - whif it a little? Chinese J-11C conversion or testbed aircraft might make it a passable attempt, a domestic development of the J-11B to convert it to Carrier operation? Just a thought off the top of my head.

Edited October 5, 2009 by Sauragnmon

[Oroka]

By the looks of the J-11C, structurally it is pretty close to the SU-27K, so that is out. The double wheel nose gear kills this thing from being anything accurate.

I kinda had my heart set on a blue camo Sukhoi, which kills anything PLAF.

I have a OLD set of F-15 decals that I am half tempted to slap on this monstrosity and call it a F/A-27K. I did read that TacAir bought a few SU-27s from the Ukraine, but looks like they are up for sale again, but in the US this time. The USAF has aggressor aircraft painted like Russian gear, why not paint up my Franken-Sukhoi as a Russian aggressor painted like a F-15C.

I also have one of those Testors custom decal kits, and I am quite good with photoshop. Maybe I could come up with something unique to draw attention from the crappy kit!

Anyone try one of those Testors decal creation kits?

[Raymond]

howdy oroka!

I agree just finish this one up warts n all

build a su-35 if its what your buzzed about...can always do an accurate kit later.. and think of this one as a concept build!

[Oroka]

howdy oroka!

I agree just finish this one up warts n all

I just might. It is still a good looking kit, and most avation enthusists wouldnt even know there is a difference between the SU-27 and SU-33.

But now I got myself thinking about just going off in a different direction... doing what I am dubbing 'Eagle 1' (akin to how the USAF calls its blue aggressor F-15C 'Flanker 1').

But yeah, I might just finish it the best I can, make it look good, and learn from the experience.

So, anyone, wheels?

[Laurent]

So, anyone, wheels?

Paint the wheel hub

Put Tamiya masking tape on the wheel

Make sure that the tape is perfectly applied on all corners by pressing it with a toothpick so that the hub-tire delimitation is clearly visible

Cut of the tape with a brand new scalpel blade; regular cutter blade will be too blunt and you'll tear off the masking tape; take your time to follow the hub-tire delimitation

Remove the tire half of the tape

Paint the tire

Remove the hub half of the tape

Edited October 5, 2009 by Laurent

[Sauragnmon]

I dunno, if you think about it, the PLANAF would be the ones operating the J-11C, and if they give it a camo job, it might well look like the camo on their Amphib APCs the Marines use, which in itself is a pretty damn wicked colour scheme. It could even wind up being a Digital pattern in theory, which would look pretty sexy as well.

Don't be afraid to go a little above and beyond with regards to the plan, since without work, the kit's a write off for accuracy - relax, enjoy the build, the plan, the scheme. Unless they're full out microscope types, you could quite likely slide through scrutiny anyways.

[Oroka]

Put Tamiya masking tape on the wheel

Is there anything special about this tape? Could I use painters tape instead? I'm pretty sure it will take some time and effort to get the Tamiya tape, I'm pretty sure I haven't seen it at any of the hobby shops within a few hour drive (I like to browse extensively in case I need something in the future).

Soooo... I have been thinking about my Russian Air Force Aggressor idea. How close could they legally paint up a plane to look like a USAF F-15?

I am pretty sure i have seen USAF aggressors wearing a red star on the tail, but I think it was a older aggressor, maybe from the 80s or 90s.

Might be time to fire up photoshop.

[Raymond]

tamiya tape is well worth the hassle

u could use masking tape and reduce the tackyness by sticking to something non lint, removing, then placing on the model

[Oroka]

I have painters tape, the green stuff. It is low tack and designed to not pull up your paint. Sounds like the same as the Tamiya stuff.

[Sauragnmon]

I should imagine they could get pretty damn close to the scheme without any major problem - I can recall seeing red stars on a number of USAF aggressor birds, notably BadCats and Eagles if I recall.

[Oroka]

Yup, I think I am going to go with a imaginary aggressor Flanker.

So, I think I need to find a generic F-15 decal set and figure out that testors decal kit thing.

(BTW 'RF' is Russian Federation, '177th FR' is the the 177th Fighter Regiment, and 'VVS 617734' is Voyenno-vozdushnye sily, 6th Army, 177th Fighter Regiment, bird 34. Im sure I am off in there somewhere, but meh. If you care to clarify my logic, please do.)

Edited October 5, 2009 by Oroka