Kostucha Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) Hello all! Here's the kit I'll be working on for this group build (note: those are indeed the instructions that came with the kit... one of these things is not like the others...): Kit: Airfix 1/24 Fw 190 A/F Aftermarket: Fw 190 Seat, LG and Wheel Wells from Jerry Rutman, and Eduard Luftwaffe Seatbelts and Fw 190 Instrument Bezels Decals: Hobbydecal Fw 190 Stencils Version 1 (I'll be painting on the rest) Where to begin... Sturmstaffel 1 or the Fw 190? Both were striking fear in the hearts of daylight bomber crews by the end of 1944. Sturmstaffel 1 - created from the desperation caused by Allied daylight bombing - was the concept brought forth by Major Hans-Gunter von Kornatzki. His plan of flying in at close range to the 4 engine bombers before opening up with all weapons seemed like a logical and straightforward plan. Thus, in January of 1944, volunteer pilots were coming forward to fly with this trial unit. These volunteers were a bit thrown back when the declarations they were to sign (in order to fly with this unit) stated that should they be in position to assault the big bombers, the pilot was to take every action necessary to bring it down - even if it meant ramming the bomber. Though this ramming maneuver was very seldom used, the tactics of Sturmstaffel 1 were soon to be known throughout the ETO. Their aircraft of choice being the Fw 190 - with a twist.(at that time the A-6, but by the end of 1944, models A-6, A-7, and A-8 were all employed). Modifications were made to add extra armour to the aircraft, including extra armour to the canopy and sides of the fuselage (the easiest visible trait that distinguished this units aircraft from those of others). These aircraft - also known as "Sturmbocks" (translated: Battering Rams), had their pilots also wearing steel helmets for protection (though this was later dropped due to the impracticality of the helmets in high speed/high G maneuvers). The later A-6's through to the A-8's also had modified weapons load outs to maximize the damage caused. All these modifications for what? Sturmstaffel pilots would approach from the bombers rear, waiting until all 4 engines were within the ring on the Revi gunsight - or about 150 meters before opening fire on the bombers - rarely further than 200 meters from the bombers 6 o'clock position. My pilot of choice for this GB is Leutnant Werner Gerth. Initially serving with 7./JG 53, he volunteered with Sturmstaffel 1 in January of 1944. His first kill was on the 22nd of February of the same year, and on the 6th of March - the day this kit is being built to depict - he shot down two USAAF B-17's... 3 minutes apart!. Later on 11 April he claimed two B-24's. On 20 April 1944, Gerth was appointed Staffelkapitan of 11.(Sturm)/JG 3, but still served with Sturmstaffel 1. However, on the 2nd of November '44, Gerth was hit by return fire from what would end up being his last kill, a B-17 over Halle. He baled out, but by all accounts, his parachute did not open. He was credited with 27 kills - 22 of those being 4 engine bombers, posthumously promoted to the rank of Hauptmann, and awarded the Deutsches Kreuz in Gold. The Kit: This is my first 190 kit - in any scale, so it'll be one heck of an introduction to the aircraft. She's big. And I mean BIG. Not so much for the 1/24 scale, but further than that. Laying next to a fuselage half and wing half from the Stuka, this is a big fighter. Dimension wise, but also the shear bulk up front on the business end. In pieces this bird looks mean. Can't wait to see her put together! Having read a lot of gripes about the kit itself, I don't foresee any of the problems to be a build-ender. Issues with the engine fitment, as well as the cirsp molding - or lack there of, really don't do the kit justice. It's an old kit, sure, but it's still well made. The basic sprues break down like this: Most parts are nice, and crisp: Some parts have flash: There is however a serious lack of detail with the kit in regards to the weapons, and especially the cockpit. Gone is the beautifully engineered instrument panel pieces of their Stuka quality. What we're left with is... a... piece of junk. Not one crisp bit of plastic here at all: The Eduard instrument Bezels will really be playing a big part in this one for sure! I've used them in the past, and though I had my difficulties with them - they didn't stand up to the kit panel I was using them for - they will fill the need nicely here I'm sure. The plan for the build is to open up this 190. Expose the engine - completely - show off the weapons in the wings, open any access panels and throw everything that I could into the cockpit. Here is a quick set of pictures showing the plan thus far: Its all in the plans for now. Once the Stuka is closer to completion, then I'll begin to start getting into this one. Otherwise, 2 1/24's on the workbench with all them darn tiny pieces... well that's got 'bad data' written all over it. Mark. Edited March 17, 2010 by Kostucha Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GGoheen Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 This one will be truly interesting, if not stunning, to watch Mark. It's truly surprising too, given the scale, that the instrument panel seems to be lacking....at least until replaced with those Eduard bezels. What a truly enormous endeavor to take on too! :) Greg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mark M. Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 You say this is your first 190, let alone your first Airfix 190. Please note there is a flaw in the mold/design where the engine FRAME is too long. If assembled as-is, the engine cooling fan behind the prop is clear of the nose of the plane. Look for a few builds/reviews of it, and they will give you exactly how long this error/flaw is. You will need to chop or rebuild the frame early on to prevent it from happening to you (especially important if displaying it all!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Mikester Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) Looking forward to this one, Mark! Edited October 9, 2009 by The Mikester Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kostucha Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) Good morning all! This one will be truly interesting, if not stunning, to watch Mark. It's truly surprising too, given the scale, that the instrument panel seems to be lacking....at least until replaced with those Eduard bezels. What a truly enormous endeavor to take on too! Greg Greg - I found that the instrument panel on the Stuka kit - the details within the gauges, was better than the Eduard kit. HOWEVER, the bezels are a very crisply made set, offering amazing potential to any scratch built panel. Problem being - it's almost impossible to put in any glass in there and make it look like a piece of glass. Future works (along with other things like CA) on smaller scales, or deeper gauges, but it's going to take a lot to get punched pieces of clear plastic in there as lenses. It is a dissapointment and as you said, a surprise, that a kit this size has a gauge set so, lacking. HOWEVER, given that, and the flat face of the 3 sections of the panel that the 190 had, with it's straight forward layout, this will be a much, MUCH easier panel to scratch build than the Stuka panel was. I'm looking forward to working on this one! Please note there is a flaw in the mold/design where the engine FRAME is too long. Mark - I have come across a number of builds published that mention this problem. Thank you for the heads up as I had no idea it was this bad (coming past the cowling! WOW!). I'm leaving the engine off until the very end of the build though, after the rest of the kit is completed. Thank you again though for the good piece of information - if you've got any other info - you seem to be a very knowledgable person in this regard (and thanks again for the links to the line drawings). Looking forward to this one, Mark! Mike, as am I! Thanks! I think the hardest part of this one is going to be the fact that I'm constantly being tempted to start this one right now! I've got no issues while building the Stuka currently of working on a couple smaller ones on the side - quick builds, nothing more, nothing less. Just enough to decorate the sons room and take a "breather" from the Stuka, but not so much that I'm completely derailed or taking on to much (like if I did indeed start the 190). The old gull wing brute is about half way I would say now with the construction portion - which, once the fuselage halves are joined together, the build will fly through without problems (no pun intended). The rest of the parts and pieces are all "sub assemblies that will be put on accordingly when the time is right. I'm hoping, honestly hoping that by mid to end of November the Stuka is finished, and assembly on the 190 can start. What does that give me a chance to do until then? Research, research, research. Can't ever do too much of that. The more I read up on the Sturmstaffel and it's pilots, the more I'm taken back. I find myself counting out power poles on the highway as I drive to and from work measuring out 150 meters and imagining what it would have been like to have a 4 engine bomber occupy everything in your gunsight. Don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes... Between that and other things about the 190 itself - a very dominating bird of the Luftwaffe that, well, just looks how a fighter should look. I always held off on the 190's when I was younger because the LHS just simply never carried them. Getting back into the hobby with the Stuka being my first major project, the enthusiasm is back, if not more than it was before... and I'm an adult now with a credit card and the internet - forget the LHS if they wont carry the kits I want. I'm happy and excited with this project - always wanting to build a 190 and finally having... the 1/24 kit of it. It's nice to be building the birds that I want and have wanted to build. Mark. Edited October 9, 2009 by Kostucha Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kostucha Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) Got the Ospray Modelling book "Modelling the Focke-Wulf Fw 190 A, F and G"... not what I was expecting to say the least... not at all... as I'll be doing with the Stuka, once this ones finished, I'll be submitting reviews of the reference material (as well as other things used) to ARC's review page. Reference material for this project book wise is: 1. The Ospray book previously mentioned here - dissapointed when compared to the next one, 2. FW 190 SUPER-DETAILED: Construction, Transformation, Painting, Weathering (Histoire and Collections; 1st edition (June 2006)) - this book is AMAZING!!! (if you have the choice, go with this one rather than the Ospray publication - it contains a large portion of what the Ospray book contains, but much, much, much more information on detailing, super detailing, weathering and painting the Fw 190. 3. Sturmstaffel 1: Reich Defence 1943-1944 the War Diary (waiting on this one to arrive - again, high hopes here) 4. Gotterdammerung: Luftwaffe Wrecks and Relics (from Brett Green) - excellent book with great reference and is very, very well written. And finally, I'm thinking about Jagdwaffe: Reich Defense 1 1943-1944 -Volume 5, Section 1 (Luftwaffe Colours) (Vol 5), not sure if I'll need it, but if the War Diary doesn't give me the answers I need, I'll likely add this one to my collection too (anyone out there have this one? Any insight?) Edited October 9, 2009 by Kostucha Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GGoheen Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Glad the bezels from the Stuka kit are going to work out for this build Mark. You can also use Kristal Klear for the glass-like appearance, although I've found that using this technique coupled with stuffing the cockpit with tissue to protect it while airbrushing can sometimes remove the white glue, leaving it dangling somewhere in between the dials and tissue. Even so, I'm very interested in seeing a 1/24th scale Fw 190 and looking forward to some more progress pictures. Greg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kostucha Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 Thanks Greg! I'm hoping that I'll be putting up progress pictures of the 190 up soon as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mark M. Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 See here for another Airfix 190 build: http://www.graf-grislawski.elknet.pl/fw190graf.htm Note that he says "5mm"... and he says that he added that length to the cowling rather than re-work the engine mounts and whatnot. However, I think his cooling fan is still too close to the cowling ring. I think you'd need a bit more than 5mm to make it look "right." Which made me think about things... The A-5 (and later) models added a 6" extension forward of the wing leading edge, in front of the engine. What if Airfix modeled the A-4/A-3 exterior, but forgot that the A-5/later had that extra plug put in place? In 1/24th scale, 6" comes out between 6 and 7mm, which would look a little better than the build in the link I posted above. Looking at the built-up kit, it definitely looks like an A-4 or earlier model. A-5 and later models have this double panel line between the wing leading edge and the cowling, most times. Example: A-4: A-5: Airfix kit: Looks like an A-4 fuselage, with an A-5 engine mount!! Note also the "cheek bulges" are moved forward on the A-5/later as well. That's a key clue that the Airfix is the early version, as they extend past the wing leading edge quite a bit! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kostucha Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 Mark, something is definitely up with the business end of this fuselage. Here's a quick pic I took before I marked out the cut lines: It has all the panel lines of the 15cm extension that the A-5 had. I'm thinking the best way to figure this one out is print out 1/24 scale fuselage line drawings of the A-5, -6, -7, or -8 and find where the deviations are. I must say though Mark, you Sir, are definitely wise in the ways of the -190's. Mark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOLMES Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Kostucha/Mark... I am going to enjoy this build very much and thank you for the history behind this.. Very Interesting read, Thnak you.. HOLMES Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Wait, you're working on this and your Stuka too ? WOW ! I'll check in on this one as well ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kostucha Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 Mark, Well, it's not as easy as the business end of the fuselage. Using this diagram of the A-5 through to -9... I spent some time measuring out the fuselage panels while the little guy was sleeping through his afternoon nap. Here's the diagram (much smaller than the real thing - photobucket just wont let me make it bigger...): Turns out that Airfix really did their homework on this one - the panels are bang on. REALLY accurate panel lines put in. So, I thought maybe the firewall mounts too far forward - Nope! It's also bang on where it's supposed to be. So, it's one of two things I think (or a combination of both): 1. The engine is to large (length wise (especially between the rows of cylinders)), and 2. The engine mounts are too long (as you suggested Mark). Other than that, the fuselage has all the right panel lines and spacing. (I didn't count the rivets here, but simply measured out the lengths between the main panel lines. So, when I get a chance later on I'll measure out the engine mounts and that should really answer the question. Holmes, thank you very much for your compliments. I really appreciate it. Gregg - planning the -190, but wont be putting glue to plastic until after the Stuka is finished. Soon though, soon. Thanks again everyone. Mark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AX 365 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Go Mark! Go Mark! All this and Remembrance Day in the capital as well?! And staying at the Lord Elgin, you can pretty well park your car and walk everywhere, except to Vintage Wings, Aviation Museum and the hobby shops...if SWMBO allows you to venture forth to use plastic to purchase plastic. Good luck with your build, sir. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Mikester Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Great research, Mark. That's the kind of stuff I'd do if I wasn't lazy.... <_< Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kostucha Posted October 10, 2009 Author Share Posted October 10, 2009 Hahaha, thank you both! Got a good laugh with that one... Okay, great news, I found out where this BMW 801 ends up growing too long on us... so, in trying to find where the heck the engine grew an extra 6 mm's (seems small, but Marks right, the cooling fan shouldn't be protruding past the front of the cowel) 1 - The spacing between the cylinder rows is a bit long - comes out to being a 1.5 mm too long. No problem, it'll be shaved down a bit inbetween the two rows. 2 - The engine mounts - the mounts themselves are fine... by themselves... but they don't sink into the firewall or the engine mount ring, the pin sinks in and the engine mounts sit ontop of them. Couldn't figure this out for the life of me until I was dry fitting it... go figure, shaving it a bit down and getting the fit right works - 2 mm's on both sides get taken off... right there, there's the 6 mm's. Researching this is half the fun of the build - learning the history of the aircraft, the insides and outsides of it. So, figured that problem out - (thanks to Mark for helping me with this one). THIS is going to be a really fun build. The Stuka's really a great kit for the reasons I'm building it, and it's a joy. The -190, ohhhh, I'm having a hard, very difficult time, not starting this one right now! Mark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mark M. Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Fascinating fix!! Can you take a picture of the engine mount areas you shaved off? I'm having a hard time visualizing it (I have not built this kit before). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vvwse4 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Hi Mark, Nice to see you have a go at this one. You did the right thing with the famous 6mm, I had too take the kit apart for like three times too figure that out. Be carefull when you remove all of the panels in the nose, I found it very hard too glue the nose section together after installing the engine. I build it on LSP, here is a link too the build, maybe it will be of some help http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.ph...&hl=fw190f8 Have fun!! Rick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kostucha Posted October 10, 2009 Author Share Posted October 10, 2009 Rick, I have to be honest with you here, I've read through and studied your build probably about a dozen times! Thank you. Mark, Once I get to work on the engine portion of the kit, I'll definitely post it up for sure! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brewer Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I'm in to watch this one, right along with the Stuka! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GGoheen Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Mark, I have to say that I too love reading your shared research behind these builds and learning more of the history behind these aircraft. Fantastic research for sure and thank you again for sharing with us. And, as mentioned by this captive audience, I too will greatly look forward to seeing more progress pictures of this build. :( Greg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kostucha Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 Greg, Thank you very much for your compliments! I wasn't sure initially if the "research and history" would be welcome or if it would be annoying to read through with any updates. I was worried that even at times with the current work on the Stuka, I wasn't putting up enough pictures and was writing too much. With the 190, I look at the Stuka as firstly, an enjoyable build, and secondly, testing grounds for work that will be going into the 190. Anything I can throw in that I think would help at all, I will gladly post - especially knowing that you guys like it. Makes me happy! I'll be getting into the details once I get to that point in the build (with the engine that is). But, it's just a force of habit that before any glue and plastic meet at each step, that I've seen the parts on the real a/c and have a plan as to how to make it that much more like the real thing. Any info that I find, especially with this 190 build, I'll be sure to share. I'll be the last one to ever hold his secrets and such to myself screaming "Get it yourself!" I don't believe in that approach to many things, especially models and talking about them with you all on an open forum. None of you have ever held back when I needed help or had questions about something - it's only fair if I'd be doing the same. With the Stuka that much closer now to being done (once the paint dries and weathering is applied, the fuselage halves will be finally joined together. Surprisingly, with all the test fits - she fits like a glove! Take care all, and happy modeling! Mark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick_Nevin Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I'll be getting into the details once I get to that point in the build (with the engine that is). But, it's just a force of habit that before any glue and plastic meet at each step, that I've seen the parts on the real a/c and have a plan as to how to make it that much more like the real thing. Any info that I find, especially with this 190 build, I'll be sure to share. I'll be the last one to ever hold his secrets and such to myself screaming "Get it yourself!" I don't believe in that approach to many things, especially models and talking about them with you all on an open forum. None of you have ever held back when I needed help or had questions about something - it's only fair if I'd be doing the same. Mark, Cool. Look forward to reading this. I'm sure you have this (or the equivalent) but there's factory manuals for the Wulf and the BMW engine out there (ISTR there's one even translated into English for a regrettably deceased US owner.) Half the fun of GB's is picking up stuff from other modellers for your own builds, I think. I've been enjoying your Stuka build greatly and look forward to your 190 one. Patrick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GGoheen Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Mark, Quite alright for the compliments as they truly are deserved. I think most here truly enjoy the historical side of these builds nearly as much as the build themselves. For me, at least, I know that I enjoy the research work on these planes greatly and will usually spend as much time pulling that information together as I will doing the build. Again, thanks for sharing this invaluable and informative data. Greg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kostucha Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 Greg, it's my pleasure! Thank you! Patrick, I've been lucky enough to get a copy of the Junkers Technical Manuals (parts and pieces, but key parts, and key pieces) of the Ju 87 Stuka (which incidentally, mine has taken a huge step forward - the fuselage halves are finally glued together). I have found a number of different sources for the Fw 190, but alas, I've yet been able to track down a good piece of the manuals (especially given that the cost of some of these items is staggering at times (and truly unwarrented as people out there seem to think that if they get a copy for themselves, that they believe they have "copyright" control over these items and can charge and arm and a leg for them... frankly, unless you worked for Junkers or affiliates, get over yourselves... anyway, where was I, right, getting back to the subject matter... given the cost, I end up just sitting on the net for an hour or two with a couple cups of coffee and search for the results, usually finding them. The 190's a popular aircraft in this respect - trying to find technical data on the Stuka was a different matter altogether. Oh, I'm so close to starting this 190... last night the tail structures were talking to me... We're just a few small pieces... no real work required... just glue us together... me and the other elevators and rudder wont tell the rest of the kit you're working on us... But, I couldn't... that kit right now is Pandora's box to me... a great... 1/24 scale... plastic... Pandora's box. Mark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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