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Blue Angels F/A-18 gear doors


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GearDoor.jpg

GearDoor2.jpg

Composite materials are not like metal. Once you "crunch it", you can't just pound it out or drill a hole into it and pull out the dent. Note this images are of a jet that is no longer flying. This is what the damage to the composite materials can look like before it is "neatly cut". The composite on a Hornet looks black, but in this case it has been painted over.

Edited by John B
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The square antennae are actually V/UHF, but for the older radios (F/A-18A and early C models). The swept ones are normally indicative that the aircraft has been outfitted with the ARC 210, which include the high-speed data transmissions such as Digital CAS, Have Quick, and encryption (without the KY 58).

The easy way to tell (on a Canadian, Australian, or early USN Hornet) if ECP 583 has been accomplished is to look for the antenna shape (both upper and lower ones).

I may be wrong though - it is possible that the USN has mated the new-style antennae with the older radios on these aircraft, but I don't know if they are compatible.

ALF

Alf, could be the case that it's tied to replacing the -159's or -182 with -210's. -210's have much better power in the VHF range than the -182, which in my experience with the E-2, H-60 and T-45 is neigh-unusable for VHF. The antenna is an antenna...swept back could have a better RF pattern or some other characteristcs but my point was an antenna is an antenna as long as it meets the specs and is cleared for installation. For examples, look at EA-6B's, F-15's, P-3's and H-60's for a hodge-podge of antenna shapes using the same radios.

JB - you can still use a KYK to load the KY-58 codes into an ARC-210....but CZY-10's are much easier. There's a new CZY coming too.

Spongebob

Edited by Spongebob
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JB - you can still use a KYK to load the KY-58 codes into an ARC-210....but CZY-10's are much easier. There's a new CZY coming too.

Spongebob

Gawd, you're making me feel older. I remember when the old KICK was slated to be replaced by the original COZY "in the near future".

Edited by John B
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He was Bsing you LOL.

Two reasons

1. Because it is broken off in the same "break" on multiple aircraft in exactly the same way

2. If in fact pieces were falling off the aircraft, that would be unsafe to fly around a crowd and fly in such tight formations. Imagine being number 4 tucked in tight on the backside of number 1 and a piece comes flying off. Your windscreen is toast, if not also your head. Or, imagine you are number 5 coming at 6 in a high speed crossover at centerline and boom, the piece falls off and gets sucked into your engine or smacks your wing.

Things don't just fall off airplanes and that is ok.

Mark

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Two reasons

1. Because it is broken off in the same "break" on multiple aircraft in exactly the same way

2. If in fact pieces were falling off the aircraft, that would be unsafe to fly around a crowd and fly in such tight formations. Imagine being number 4 tucked in tight on the backside of number 1 and a piece comes flying off. Your windscreen is toast, if not also your head. Or, imagine you are number 5 coming at 6 in a high speed crossover at centerline and boom, the piece falls off and gets sucked into your engine or smacks your wing.

Things don't just fall off airplanes and that is ok.

Mark

well as much as i wanted to agree with you on that point, it would appear there is evidence otherwise. (see above pics)

Bill

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Okay folks,

I posted those images as an example of why the doors get cut out - not an excuse for people to continue to muddy the subject. (I'm seeing some "spirited" discussions occuring in other threads on the board this today. Either people need to just calm down and have some eggnog =OR= people have had too much eggnog and need to be cut off. This isn't a NAVAIR conference, it's modelling site.) The pics I posted are from a Blue Angels jet that was NO LONGER FLYING and was sent to a museum. The door may have been damaged on another jet and simply swapped out. If you're on the road/deployed/at sea, you may not have the proper parts/ tools/ skills/ time to repair such damage, so you do what can to arrest further damage. Damage does occur, you do what you can to stop it, but things happen. If parts never broke/ wore out/ needed updates you'd never need maintainers, suppliers and repair depots.

Just for comparison, this is what extensive damage to composite materials looks like -

crunch.jpg

Edited by John B
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Damaged composite is no joke! it will cut you up like a razor blade. It makes sense to round off the jagged edges. Burnt composite can kill you! Temp repairs are common if you are in a time crunch. I'm sure each plane with a broken door has one on order and is carrying a deferred write up in the forms.

Curt

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Damaged composite is no joke! it will cut you up like a razor blade. It makes sense to round off the jagged edges. Burnt composite can kill you! Temp repairs are common if you are in a time crunch. I'm sure each plane with a broken door has one on order and is carrying a deferred write up in the forms.

Curt

The above pictures look exactly like the doors looked on an operational jet that I saw come through my airport FBO so they have flown a plane in that condition.

Steve

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KY-58 is so Reagan-era 1980's technology. ;)

John B - who knows what this device is and how to use it KYK-13.nsa.jpg

OH NO!!!!

I don't want to do another Redball for a code that did not take!!!!

NO NO NO I still have nightmares after almost all of our jets had to be recoded and I got to assist C Shop

Ok so on the F-16 it wasn't too hard to do.

I am glad I didn't have to run with that as well as the brick for the IFF all the time.

William G

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OH NO!!!!

I don't want to do another Redball for a code that did not take!!!!

NO NO NO I still have nightmares after almost all of our jets had to be recoded and I got to assist C Shop

William G

I used to load all 6 positions with the same thing just because I was feeling superstitious some days.

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I used to load all 6 positions with the same thing just because I was feeling superstitious some days.

John

How many times did you have a battery die when you were in the middle of a load?

That happened 2x for me, and I swear it was a big PITA.

Not as bad as one pilot who liked to zero all the codes so he was certain he had the right ones

William G

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I don't know for sure, but I understand the Blue Angels do some flying with gear down at speeds higher than normally authorized for other Hornets. I think the damage is due to higher than normal speeds with gear down (airloads).

The landing gear doors are made of composite material (thus the 'delamination' problem that was mentioned by Scooby). As a pilot, I often heard about aircraft being grounded because of a delamination, but I never really saw a good example of what it looks like (for sure, CF Hornet techs didn't screw around when they found one - the a/c was grounded until fixed). A tribute to our techs; they rarely let things get to the point where they were obviously broken.

The normal maximum speed for Hornet gear operation is 250 knots calibrated airspeed (KCAS). I think (not sure) I have heard that the Blues sometimes can fly with gear down at speeds up to 300 KCAS or so; this would definitely make it possible to have bits and pieces come off the doors. It makes sense to me that a field repair might be to chop off the part of the door that has delaminated, to stop the rest from coming apart.

I think that is it. They fly with their gear down more often and thus the damage. I know in the CAF we would never allow a jet off the ground with the extent of damage we see here. They obviously have permission from the engineering folks to fly these jets with this damage which I find understandable if the damage cannot be prevented.

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KY-58 is so Reagan-era 1980's technology. :thumbsup:

John B - who knows what this device is and how to use it KYK-13.nsa.jpg

That technology is so old too.

Did you know if you carried the kicker off base on deployment on a civilian flight it was suppose to be under armed escort?

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Alf, could be the case that it's tied to replacing the -159's or -182 with -210's. -210's have much better power in the VHF range than the -182, which in my experience with the E-2, H-60 and T-45 is neigh-unusable for VHF. The antenna is an antenna...swept back could have a better RF pattern or some other characteristcs but my point was an antenna is an antenna as long as it meets the specs and is cleared for installation. For examples, look at EA-6B's, F-15's, P-3's and H-60's for a hodge-podge of antenna shapes using the same radios.

JB - you can still use a KYK to load the KY-58 codes into an ARC-210....but CZY-10's are much easier. There's a new CZY coming too.

Spongebob

True about the antenna, but it must meet specs, if the impedances so not match the signal will drop off.

And I didn't know pilots knew about the KYK or the CZY. I hate the CZY as they know if you did the muster or destroy late or not. :thumbsup:

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John

How many times did you have a battery die when you were in the middle of a load?

That happened 2x for me, and I swear it was a big PITA.

Not as bad as one pilot who liked to zero all the codes so he was certain he had the right ones

William G

Never, didn't you guys put a date on your battery? We changed them well before they went dead.

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John

How many times did you have a battery die when you were in the middle of a load?

That happened 2x for me, and I swear it was a big PITA.

Not as bad as one pilot who liked to zero all the codes so he was certain he had the right ones

William G

I used to put a multimeter across the posts to ensure that I had a decent battery. (A superstitious habit I developed because I never wanted that nightmare.)

Another superstition I developed - People never seem to check they are good until "the music changes" and they suddenly aren't able to talk to anyone. Everyone knows who they are because they were the only ones broadcasting in the clear.

Like I said, that was soooo "1980s-tech". SINCGARS and Have Quick turned a whole new page, (so we thought) until we had to revert to the old ways of doing things due to "interoperability issues with certain people". 'nuff sed.

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Never, didn't you guys put a date on your battery? We changed them well before they went dead.

Scooby, ever been handed the KY by a supervisor who, lets just say never bothered to check fully?

he was a right pain in the patookus...

Did you know if you carried the kicker off base on deployment on a civilian flight it was suppose to be under armed escort?

Yep

Sure did

:salute:

William G

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My supervisors would have been too busy eating donuts to know anything about the KYK.

When you have a 7 level, who is supposed to know his stuff.

and we then found in several instances he.. cough cough DIDNT

William G

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When you have a 7 level, who is supposed to know his stuff.

and we then found in several instances he.. cough cough DIDNT

William G

No way that never happens to the pointy headed ones.....lol I have seen quite a few pointy heads try and BS there way out of a wright up because he had no idea! Staff Sargent Seven Level gets trumped by the SrA more often than not!

Curt

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GearDoor.jpg

GearDoor2.jpg

Composite materials are not like metal. Once you "crunch it", you can't just pound it out or drill a hole into it and pull out the dent. Note this images are of a jet that is no longer flying. This is what the damage to the composite materials can look like before it is "neatly cut". The composite on a Hornet looks black, but in this case it has been painted over.

Thank you for posting those picturers John.

Interesting seeing it up close.

It still seems odd to me that the problem could be caused by going too fast with the gear down. So this problem doesn't occur during normal F/A-18 operations?

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Getting back, it does look like it could be a combination of water getting into the composite and causing the skin to bubble on top of the core.

with these on the edge you then have a soft spot that will flex and deform, this causes the outer skin to delaminate and come off, leaving that core exposed,

I had seen repairs to composites where they cut the composite applied a layer of sealant and then a tape layer on top, but this was in a civilian area and was not close to gear doors in as far as the importance, But still it does have the same look...

No way that never happens to the pointy headed ones.....lol I have seen quite a few pointy heads try and BS there way out of a wright up because he had no idea! Staff Sargent Seven Level gets trumped by the SrA more often than not!

Trust me Curt this was one slippery SSgt, he had everyone believing he could walk on water.

Worked his tail off to get about 4 of us Pointy Heads under him on various writeups because... lets say that we did not buy his line of bull...

William G

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