Scratchbuilding a 1/32 1927 Ford AT-4 Trimotor

[Skyking]

Well not a huge update, but the Stabilizer is about 95% done. I just have to add the rivets and paint the hinges and it can be set aside until final assembly.

I learned something with this foil and using epoxy as an adhesive. I have to be very careful not to allow any air bubbles in the epoxy when I smooth it onto the core. If you look closely on the right Stabilizer, you will see a small circular depression. An air bubble was underneath, and when I rubbed down the foil it depressed down and formed the divot you see here. Of course I didn't notice it until AFTER the epoxy cured and it was too late. I was disgusted and ready to trash it and start over, when I looked at my drawings and noticed that the guy wire from the Fin attached at a point that looked pretty darn close to where the depression was. A quick measurement, and it is dead nuts center to where the guy wire attach's. I don't have to do it over after all. There is a small square reinforcing plate on the real airplane I will replicate with a small square patch of foil, so it will get covered by that. I dodged a bullet on that one without having to redo anything.

The blue trim is applied to the Stab ends. I used Floquil US Navy Dark Sea Blue enamel, glossed over with Testors OneCoat gloss lacquer. I also couldn't resist setting the Fin/Rudder in place. The reflectance of the aluminum is very realistic when compared to pictures of the real airplane. So far, barring any major screw ups on my part, it should look really good when it's all covered.

Next on the list is to fine tune the fuselage master to get it ready for vacuforming. I do have a small problem, in that my fuselage master is about 18 inches long, but the largest frame for my vacuform is 17 inches. If I can place the master in at an angle and still get a good draw in the corners it won't be an issue, but there's an outside chance I may have to cut my master in half and do them in four pieces - a right and left, front and rear. I hope I can do it all as two sides, but we'll see.

Thanks for following along, and as always comments, ideas and suggestions welcome.

Cheers

Mike

[GreyGhost]

Nice 'lilttle' update, Mike ...

Thank You for the fun of watching along ....

Gregg

[geedubelyer]

Well not a huge update,

Hey Mike, we'll take what we can get....any update is better than nothing :D

Glad to see you got away with the dimple issue...phew! that's a relief. I know that you'd have re-done the entire assembly again but it's way better to move on to the fuselage instead eh?

The reflectance of the aluminum is very realistic when compared to pictures of the real airplane.

You are so right. Your photo looks bloomin' marvellous I so hope you can take some pics outdoors when she's complete. Seeing her in all of her glory in full sunshine would be a thing of beauty

Good luck with the fuselage masters. I'll have my fingers crossed for you. It sure would be better to have only two pieces to manipulate rather than four. I'm confident you'll make it perfect either way though.

:D

[C-130CrewChief]

Excellent luck with the dimple! That's a good omen for this build. Keep up the good work and I'm looking forward to the next update!

Curt

[GretarBill]

OMG. Just ran in to this thread. This is a mind blowing build.

Grétar W. G.

[Boman]

You make even the best of us look like amatures - this is SO good!

[BOC262]

The fortuitous dimple--I love it!

Truly an awe inspiring project. The tail section alone is amazing, I can't even begin to imagine the impact of the complete model.

Edited November 28, 2009 by BOC262

[le wombat agile]

I've seen only now this masterpiece. The corrugated panel work is stunning. You've faced a titanic challenge.

Ezio

[Bob Beary]

Like the great Bob Beary said to me:

"Pete...Mike's assembly jigs are better than our models."

This is an extreme talent we're dealing with here people-

Pig

Pete, Slight misquote there. What I said was that Mike's assembly jigs were better than my models. I still stand in awe of what you and Mike (and a lot of others here) can accomplish in the name of modeling.

Bob

[Skyking]

Thanks for the comments everyone. I do appreciate them very much.

I still stand in awe of what you and Mike (and a lot of others here) can accomplish in the name of modeling.

Hi Bob glad you're following along. You are no slouch either. What you do with those Tamiya motorcycles is nothing short of spectacular. I wish I could lay down a gloss finish as well as you do.

With the Holidays here in the US I didn't do much on it until the last few nights, but this is where I am at now.

I got out my trusty ol' Mattel Vacu-Form that I've "souped up" into a mean lean sucking machine. (Can I say that here?) The original rubber piston had long since died, so I removed it completely, and found that one of the nozzles of my Shop-Vac fit over the cylinder with a nice press fit. The heating plate still works, and with the much improved vacuum, this thing really works well. The biggest advantage of having a constant vacuum source from the Shop-Vac is that it also holds the master in place, and I don't have to worry about it moving from plunging the handle up and down anymore. The wooden plate you see covering the plastic serves two purposes. The first it's my pattern to cut plastic with. The second is that it acts like a heat shield to keep the heat concentrated on the plastic, rather than radiating away from it.

I decided to begin with the two outboard engine nacelles. I cut my masters in half, and will keep these buried in the plastic after I assemble them. It will give me a good anchor point for the nacelle struts and landing gear struts.

Here the plastic is starting to get heated. To test it to see if it's ready, I poke it with the end of a pencil. It's ready when it sags down about 1/4 inch below the plate. It also stretches the plastic a bit so that it pulls over the form easier.

OK here it's ready. It's dropping well, and it's nice and pliable and ready to pull. At this point I fire up the Shop Vac so I have constant suction on the bed...

...give it the ol' flipparoni and down over the master it goes.

Next step is to sand the parts with the master still inside on my sanding board, which is nothing more than a piece of 150 grit glued to an old piece of pegboard. A few swipes, then check it. A few more swipes, check again. I Keep repeating until the edges are flush with the master until...

I have the parts ready for assembly. I have to mark out the strut locations and do some finish sanding on them yet.

Next up... Fuselage.

[Skyking]

I did some finish work on the Fuselage master, mainly filling in a couple of scratches and digs, plus a couple of pinholes that were in the Renshape. I also messed up the contours right at the rear of the fuselage, so that was built back up with Bondo and sanded to shape. These pictures are before any final sanding was done.

My fears are realized. It's way too big for my largest frame, so I am going to cut it in half about 3 inches from the back. I'll vacuform the parts, then glue the master back together. When I put the halves together, I will cut the master apart again, this time at the rear bulkhead, so that the front and rear seam will be on a solid surface, so there will be plenty of support.

This shot shows where I will be cutting. The master has been finish sanded and is ready to be used. I also mapped out the other bulkheads, the floors, firewall and a few other details. I'll follow these lines when I cut up the master. I can then use them for patterns for interior bulkheads, the floor, etc. That will assure a good tight fit without a bunch of fiddly test fitting.

Here's a shot of my home made vacu-form. For about 20 dollars in materials, and old file cabinet, and an electric grill I snagged on Ebay, I was able to make what you see here. With a Shop Vac I can pull up to .040 without any trouble. With a heat gun for auxiliary heat, I can pull .060, as long as there's no tight drafts or corners. It works pretty well, but I can see I will have to make some bigger plates and frames if I am going to be building more stuff in 32nd scale.

That's all for this evening. I hope to pull the fuselage sometime later this week. I'll photo document that as I go and post some shots later this weekend. As always comments and suggestions are welcome.

Cheers

Mike

Edited December 2, 2009 by Skyking

[geedubelyer]

Hi Mike,

I've got to thank you for taking the time to illustrate the vac-forming method. I admit that it was an enigma to me but a chat with Frederick (Stubske) at the UK Nats and now this latest update of yours has begun to clarify things substantially. You make it all look so easy but I suspect that practice makes perfect. A novice like me might expect a few mishaps I'd warrant.

It's a shame that your current rig won't pull the fuselage half in one go but I'm very confident that your plan will result in a seamless and strong join.

This is a very interesting and exciting build.

I can't get over how good that corrugated metal looks on the tail surfaces.

I'm aleady looking forward to see what comes next.

Keep up the outstanding work. :D

[richter111]

Just keep following along, and being more and more impressed!

[HOLMES]

Ever more impressive and exciting to follow the build gets more

AWESOME than ever before.

I am enjoying and loving this brilliant bulld..there is none that could match your

scatchbuilding..

Thank you Mike for the updates and such a great build .

HOLMES :D

[GreyGhost]

Nice vac-forming, Mike !

All that brings me back to my High School plastics class where we learned all the ins and outs of that process, quite fun actually ...

Gregg

[Skyking]

Hey everyone. Quickie update today.

I've got to thank you for taking the time to illustrate the vac-forming method. I admit that it was an enigma to me but a chat with Frederick (Stubske) at the UK Nats and now this latest update of yours has begun to clarify things substantially. You make it all look so easy but I suspect that practice makes perfect. A novice like me might expect a few mishaps I'd warrant.

It's a shame that your current rig won't pull the fuselage half in one go but I'm very confident that your plan will result in a seamless and strong join.

Hi Guy. Thanks for stopping in. When I get home from work tonight I will post the title of a book I found that will explain everything you need to know about vacuforming. If I recall correctly, Pete turned me onto it, and it's what I use when I get stuck or need some guidance. It can be found on Epray for a modest cost.

Richeter thank you for coming along. I appreciate all the support.

Hiya Holmes.

I am enjoying and loving this brilliant bulld..there is none that could match your

scatchbuilding..

lol. I appreciate your always enthusiastic support. I am not sure that I am unmatchable, as there's some folks here like Timmy, Zacto, Pete F, Guy, and a host of others - that all I can do is sit and look and just shake my head wishing I could do that level of detail, but thank you just the same.

Hiya Gregg Thanks for stopping by. There's something immensely satisfying about hearing that schlucking sound and watching a piece of plastic sheet suddenly become an identifiable part isn't there? It's quite fun.... except when it doesn't work..lol.

Last night I got the four major fuselage sections pulled and rough trimmed. Everything went without a hitch until I turned on the Shop Vac to pull the first part. As soon as I hit the switch, I heard a snap from the breaker panel behind me, and all of a sudden I was in the dark . My poor little 15 amp Circuit Breaker didn't like the fact I had all the lights on, a dehumidifier, the heating element of the vacuform, plus the lights and TV in the family room upstairs on all at the same time. The added current of the Shop Vac caused it to wave the white flag of surrender and in the dark I went. A quick trip around the house turning off unneeded electrical appliances allowed me to continue. :P

Here's a few shots of the in-progress. It was a bit difficult to drive the camera and operate the vacu-form, so this is as close as I could get.

Here's the front half - sans 3 inches of backside - on the table. Now it fits with lots of room all the way around.

Here's the frame, loaded with .040 plastic, under the heating element. If you look closely you'll see the plastic is starting to sag in the middle. I let it heat up another minute or two, until it was sagging about 2 inches below the frame.

Now this is where I start to do my "Dance of The VacuForm". I turn on the Shop Vac, quickly pull the frame out of the holder, turn off the heating element, then with a quick plunge, lay the frame so it nestles over the plate on the bed. In an instant the plastic is pulled over the master, and I use a blunt edged putty knife to force the edges down tight to the master while the plastic is still soft. I leave the vacuum on for a few additional moments to cool the plastic.

Here I am pulling the back half. I've switched to a smaller frame so I don't waste as much plastic. Same process, let it heat, sag, drop, suck and cool...lol.

When all goes well this is what I end up with. A well formed part, with no folds or wrinkles in any area that's going to be used. I spent another half hour cutting the parts from the carrier and trimming close to the joint lines. Tonight I'll sand them to the point where they butt-joint tightly together over the master, and they will be ready for assembly.

Thanks for stopping by.

Cheers

Mike

[Blackcollar]

Wow, that is awesome... Great work and nice setup!!!!

-Al

[Skyking]

Hi Al. Thanks for the comments and stopping by.

To paraphrase what Ron White would say… It’s going to be a good modeling day ‘Tater.

I managed to snag an uninterrupted modeling day when SWMBO and munchkins all went to the Mall to do some Christmas shopping. I was able to get the fuselage parts trimmed and to final sand the edges for a good butt fit to each other. With the master still inside, everything fits well and there shouldn’t be any major issues when I go to do the assembly. I then cut out the cockpit windows, using the cutouts on the master as a guide. They are a smidge oversize. I will mount the glass inside the openings, then use the aluminum tape to fashion frames to hide the seam.

After a deep breath and a Seven and Seven to calm my nerves, it was time to cut up the master. I separated it into four major sections - the tail, floor and ceiling, and the cockpit. These will be used to mount the plastic to for the floors, and to use as patterns for the bulkheads. Because the master is the exact width of the inside of the fuselage, it will lend a lot of strength to the final fuselage.

Here’s the aft cockpit bulkhead after sanding to shape to match the profile of the master. I have to cut the door opening into yet, plus shorten it, as it ends vertically even with the bottom of the side windows, then resumes above again. For now I’ll leave it as one piece until I’m ready to install it.

Here’s the cockpit area. The plastic is glued directly to the master, and it fits the sides of the fuselage perfectly.

Here’s a view of the four main compartments. The cockpit in the front, then the mail sorting area. Then there’s the main salon, and then last is the toilet. Yes this airplane has a toilet, and it presents a bit of a mystery. On the real airplane the floor is only about 4 inches deep underneath, hardly enough room for a holding tank or even a drain. There is water running to it, as it’s clearly seen in a photo of the commode. So… where does the… ummm… “stuff†go when it’s flushed? Is this a predecessor to the water bomber? Is it used to fertilize crops? The mind boggles at the possibilities…lol. I’ll have to email the owner of the airplane and ask him how it works. I can’t imagine that it just dumps out the bottom of the airplane. Maybe 60 years ago when it was in service, but with today’s sanitary codes and requirements it simply would not be acceptable. I’ve also started the assembly jig. This will hold everything in place for final assembly.

Next I’ll start fabricating all the fun stuff that goes inside. There’s some structure visible in the cockpit and toilet areas, but the rest of the interior is either carpeted or rubber mats. I’ll use flocking for the carpets, but I’m not sure how I’ll replicate the sidewalls and ceiling yet. They appear to be either flocked or carpeted in pictures, but it’s a multicolored material with blues and browns and tans all intermixed. Maybe different colors of flocking mixed together will do the trick.

Thanks for stopping by. As always comments and criticism’s welcome.

Cheers

Mike

Edited December 6, 2009 by Skyking

[GreyGhost]

I hear ya on the sound of a nice vac forming, Mike ....

Very nice fabricating, Sir ....

Gregg

[geedubelyer]

Hi Mike,

More beautifully sharp work that we've come to expect from you my friend. You make it look simple but I know it is n't.

A quick question if I may? How do you cut out the window openings etc? Do you leave the plastic on the master for stability? The edges are so neat and square. I know if I tried this it would look a mess so I am interested in your technique.....

Next I’ll start fabricating all the fun stuff that goes inside. There’s some structure visible in the cockpit and toilet areas, but the rest of the interior is either carpeted or rubber mats. I’ll use flocking for the carpets, but I’m not sure how I’ll replicate the sidewalls and ceiling yet. They appear to be either flocked or carpeted in pictures, but it’s a multicolored material with blues and browns and tans all intermixed. Maybe different colors of flocking mixed together will do the trick.

Cheers

Mike

For the ceiling and wall coverings, could you use decal? Have you ever looked at doll houses? Strange question I know but perhaps sites that sell that stuff might have decal of wallpaper similar to what you need?

I'm looking forward to seeing all of the internals. This is getting better by the update.

[HOLMES]

GEEZ!!!

Mike you have such patience and I am floored by your " Vac " work ..you make it look amazing and I am absolutely

hooked on your thread and the work that you are doing..I always fnd it calming and pleasureable to come here to

watch you model....reading your thread is refreshing and so understandable..

Love what you have done so far and looking Good MIke..

...AS ever in AWE , HOLMES

[Skyking]

Holmes, Gregg, thank you for your comments. As always glad to have you along.

A quick question if I may? How do you cut out the window openings etc? Do you leave the plastic on the master for stability?

Good question Guy. Yes I left the part on the master when I trimmed them. After the parts were pulled, I cut them into the master using various sizes of chisels and cut them to a depth of about 4mm. Renshape is very easy to carve and it was a snap. My reasoning for doing them after is I can get sharper and squarer corners by cutting them after the fact, than I could if I vacuuformed the plastic into the recess. They wold be rounded over and not very neat.. After they were cut, I placed the part back into the master, did the majority of the material removal with a dremel cutting bit, then did the fine tuning with a sharp #11 blade, trimming a little at a time right up to the master, but without cutting it. After that I used small sanding sticks to dress the edges and make them neat.

Also thank you for the suggestion of dollhouse stuff. I never even thought of that. I have to go to AC Moore with the Boss today. It'll give me something to look at while she peruses the girly stuff..lol. Thanks Guy.

By the way I mentioned in an earlier post to you about a book for Vacuforming. The book title is "Do it Yourself Vacuum Forming for The Hobbyist" by Doug E. Walsh. I shamelessly used the ideas in his book and follow his techniques and it takes a lot of the mystery out of vacuforming. I got mine on Evil Bay for 8 USD I think. It's well worth the investment if you have any inkling to vacuform.

Cheers

Mike

Edited December 6, 2009 by Skyking

[richter111]

Are you thinking about offering a vac kit for sale?

[Skyking]

Hiya Richter.

Are you thinking about offering a vac kit for sale?

No I'm afraid not. I really don't think it would be up to the quality needed to be a kit. I have routines that I use that are set in stone, and my way of doing things may not necessarily be the best way or easiest way. If I were to make copies for sale there would have to be changes made to ensure it could actually be built.

Short update today. I've got some interior work started. A couple of the bulkheads are done and sheeted, and riveting started. I've also got the main passenger compartment floor and ceiling covered in .010 plastic. Next will be to cut the windows and doors in the sides, then I'll make the interior walls and cover them. I'm about 90% sure the interior wall covering is a glossy hardboard material, and I've been playing around with Corell Paint and I think I can duplicate the pattern and colors used. I'll print it out on decal or label paper and apply it to the interior walls after.

Here's the main cockpit and mail area. The real aircraft has the floor and instrument panel painted silver rather than polished aluminum, so I used Alclad Duralumin for that. The instrument panel itself will be anther part that sits centered on the panel here. The interior sidewalls are the exterior skin, so I applied some corrugated material along the sides to duplicate the look. I have to add stringers and a few longerons to this area yet, and they will also get painted aluminum.

Same area looking aft into the doorway to the mail area. This also has the corrugated skin on the inside. There will also be shelves for mail sorting on either side, and storage bins underneath. The cockpit bulkhead is cut out so that pilots had good rearward vision through the side windows. The doorways followed the shape of interior braces that are covered by corrugated skin. I used .040 plastic to make the bulkhead cores, then skinned them with the aluminum. They will add quite a bit of stiffness.

And here's the area of the Mystery Toilet..lol. This also has corrugated skin on the inside, but this area is painted gloss white on the real airplane. The very last bulkhead has a doorway that allows access to the rear of the fuselage for maintenance. It's a triangular shaped door that also follows the outline of bracing on the bulkheads. I choose to leave the door in the closed position, but the doorway into the Head will be left open. The bulkhead between the salon and the head needs to be covered yet.

Not a terribly exciting update, but I'm enjoying this part of the build. As always comments critiques welcome.

Till next time

Cheers

Mike

[Old Man]

Damn, Mr. King! This is incredible even for you!

I had not realized you had piled right into this project, and am delighted to have found this thread, and taken it all at a gulp. I must confess amazement you decided against the float incarnation, as when I saw that picture my initial response was 'of course, it turns out to be a float-plane after all...."

But all kidding aside, this is a really amazing project, and will be something so real in its affect that by rights it ought to taxi down the table and take off!