Unpacking the Trumpeter Tomcat

[Av8fan]

Firecaptain,

thanks!

That sounds like a ringing endorsement!

Of course there are many things that look more like something else then a chain saw,

but hey, this sounds good to me!

[bushande]

that, is an upsized copy of the italeri 1/72 and 1/48 nose cone!

THAT is exactly what I was thinking right away the very first time I saw pics of the kit!

[bushande]

I got mine for a lousy 60 Euros wich is not even 100 USD so I can easily live with the one or other flaw.

I really like the option of showing extended flaps and slats. Allows for some nice big dios. I think I might mix the Trumpy and the Tamiya kits.

I think the rubber wing seal bags are nice feature. I still remember what kind of pain it was to scratch flexible wing seal bags for my revell kit. For everyone who likes to sweep those wings every once in a while this is certainly nice to have. I don't worry too much about the painting issue.

I was aware I'd have to do the usual correction work and would have to buy some add ons just like I needed for the Revell and tamiya kits right from the start so I am quite pleased with what i got and about the rivets: Better having just to put up some putty than the other way around, I CAN TELL.

BTW: Are there any pilot figures there??? (I'll get my two just next week)

Edited December 18, 2009 by bushande

[loftycomfort]

The fact that there's so much debate on whether the nose shape is off or not means to me that the error is not blatant like the Trump Flanker nose or the Academy Tomcat nose are. I will gladly accept a teensy bitsy off nose (assuming it is in fact off). I can't build a perfect model myself, so I'll give the kit manufactuer a break for "getting only 99% there" when it comes in accuracy.

I kept opening the box to look at the various cockpit pieces. For a semi-AMS modeler like me, the kit cockpit is almost good enough to be built OOB (it certainly would be if it's 1/48). I was thinking of dressing up the kit pit with millput and scratch built details, then suddenly spruebrothers has the BB pit in stock so I bought one too.

So I guess I'll be building this cockpit with a mix of kit, scratch, BB and PE - as soon as the BB pit arrives. I can't wait!

Terry

[Scotsman]

Frankly for modellers such as myself , a good colour PE set , combined with decent seats would be more than enough to dress up 99% of all the models I build, I just hope my one manages to get from Hannants to me in time for the big day next Friday!

[dehowie]

The fact that there's so much debate on whether the nose shape is off or not means to me that the error is not blatant like the Trump Flanker nose or the Academy Tomcat nose are. I will gladly accept a teensy bitsy off nose (assuming it is in fact off). I can't build a perfect model myself, so I'll give the kit manufactuer a break for "getting only 99% there" when it comes in accuracy.

I kept opening the box to look at the various cockpit pieces. For a semi-AMS modeler like me, the kit cockpit is almost good enough to be built OOB (it certainly would be if it's 1/48). I was thinking of dressing up the kit pit with millput and scratch built details, then suddenly spruebrothers has the BB pit in stock so I bought one too.

So I guess I'll be building this cockpit with a mix of kit, scratch, BB and PE - as soon as the BB pit arrives. I can't wait!

Terry

I think Terry got it in one.

The fact there is quite a bit of discussion with people struggling to put a finger on it points toward a kit which is pretty close at worst.

Given alll the other positives in this kit compared to the Tamiya option im thinking it gets a big thumbs up.

Hopefully mine arrives today...

Darren

[Zactoman]

I think Terry got it in one.

The fact there is quite a bit of discussion with people struggling to put a finger on it points toward a kit which is pretty close at worst.

Let's hope that's the case, but also consider that we've only seen a few pictures so far. Hard to draw conclusions from a partial side view.

I'm anxious to see a full build or even some additional shots of the taped up model from different angles such as a full top view.

[dehowie]

Id like to see some pics with parts painted and masked.

The clear canopy can provide some pretty weird optical illusions until you get the panel framing done.

Even the photoshop work on here is innaccurate with lines not in the corrct places on the framing that exaggerates estimates.

From here it loks pretty good and nothing as obvious as the Su27 canopy problem.

So far so good me thinks.

[Biped19]

The fact that there's so much debate on whether the nose shape is off or not means to me that the error is not blatant like the Trump Flanker nose or the Academy Tomcat nose are. I will gladly accept a teensy bitsy off nose (assuming it is in fact off). I can't build a perfect model myself, so I'll give the kit manufactuer a break for "getting only 99% there" when it comes in accuracy.

I kept opening the box to look at the various cockpit pieces. For a semi-AMS modeler like me, the kit cockpit is almost good enough to be built OOB (it certainly would be if it's 1/48). I was thinking of dressing up the kit pit with millput and scratch built details, then suddenly spruebrothers has the BB pit in stock so I bought one too.

So I guess I'll be building this cockpit with a mix of kit, scratch, BB and PE - as soon as the BB pit arrives. I can't wait!

Terry

Terry, by looking at the cockpit halves, do you think the Black Box cockpit will fit?

[Zactoman]

Id like to see some pics with parts painted and masked.

The clear canopy can provide some pretty weird optical illusions until you get the panel framing done.

Even the photoshop work on here is innaccurate with lines not in the corrct places on the framing that exaggerates estimates.

From here it loks pretty good and nothing as obvious as the Su27 canopy problem.

So far so good me thinks.

Did you see the Photoshop overlay I did on the previous page highlighting what might be a big problem with either the canopy length or the intake position (or both)?

[bushande]

pilot figures???

are there any?

[THX1138]

No pilots.

Well, either that or they left the box when I wasn't looking.

[dehowie]

Ok after spending the last two hours with the Tamiya and Trump F14 i am more than happy to say BOTH have problems but for different reasons.

The Tamiya kit front canopy although in the right place is incorrectly shaped and some 2.5mm when put up against the detail and scale plans and the Willy Peters drawings which i used for these comparisins.

I spent quite some time and it appears the Tamiya kit when directly compared has a front fuselage section which is to narrow and hence fuselage sides i think a little to steep.

To me also its shape has some issues when compared to the new front canopy of Trumpeter which looks from the photos i have compared it to pretty closely is quite good in shape and look and quite a bit better than Tamiya.

IMO Trump has the wood on Tamiya in that department.

Now the Trump kit from looking at about 200 pics of the front end to me have almost nailed the canopy spot on apart from the rear angle fuse join.

The front canopy has pretty much correct shape etc and if its to be faulted at all its because it may be a smidgeon to tall but after looking for an hour its splitting pretty fine hairs.

The problem i see is the canopy is to far forward like in Chris's image from the plans appears too be 4.5mm to far forward. This would give the impression of being to bulbous which a few people have mentioned.

The main canopy lengths are about 1.3mm diff.

The distance from rear radome edge to front edge of front canopy should be around 30mm in 32nd the Tamiya kit is 29.8 and the Trump kit around 25.5 to 26mm depending on where you start measuring on the canopy join from.

Distance wise from front edge front canopy to nose tip its about 3mm to close.

All this assumes the drawings again are close to the truth but by direct comparison Tamiya matches up pretty closely araprt from the length of the front canopy which is out by some margin.

I gues that goes to show after all these years of looking at Tamiya 32nd Cats that even an error in the canopy can be hidden and its shape IMO is out.

I think the Trump radome also need some more curve put in the ytop side creating more downslope.

Im not sure but i think that may be the problem causing most of the visual effect people are seeing its quite flat along the top side and should curvedown somewhat more.

Anyway despite my ramblings im looking at two taped together front fuselages and both look good despite there inherent problems so i see them.

If anything a new radome or some elbow grease on the Trump radome will make a MAJOR difference to the canopy nose relationship.

Placing the front canopy about 1 to 1.5mm further aft will also help and then a bit of work on the trailing edge of the main canopy will solve for me anyway any shape issues.

You cant swap noses as the Tamiya kit is quite a bit thinner which to me creates its own problems when compared closely to photos.

Anyway feel free to take exception to what i have written but in a direct comparison none of these problems create an issue to me anyway as bad as we had with the SU27 when it was released and i'm overall still pretty excited about the new Trump F14D..

Dazz

[bushande]

cool,

just as I said. You'll never get a 100% perfect kit and in the end no one will ever realize every little catch there is, so what gives.

We are talking about 1/32 and diferences in the tiny milimeter range. It looks pretty darn much like a tomcat and I#m pretty sure it will make for some nasty bad *** renditions here on ARC in the future. everything else is just antf#+@ing.

But still just out of plain curiosity: you gave a really nice profound description here. you got any shots to it too?

[Zactoman]

Ok after spending the last two hours with the Tamiya and Trump F14 i am more than happy to say BOTH have problems but for different reasons.

What about the problem I was trying to illustrate?

To clarify I've numbered the pictures and added a few lines to show the mismatches (white) and areas that I aligned in each picture (green):

In each of the following scenarios I resized the kit profile (transparent red) to match key areas of the photos.

#1 and 2 - I lined up both the front and rear edges of the canopy (green). Note where the kit intake ends up, much too far forward (white). Also note the nose.

#3 and 4 - I lined up the front of the canopy as well as the front of the intake (green). Note how far back this puts the rear of the canopy (white).

In doing this layout (#3&4) I had to enlarge the kit profile which ended up making the kit nose more closely match the photos lengths. This leads me to believe that this scenario might be more the case than the first two pictures. (That the rear part of the canopy extends too far back on the fuselage.)

It may well be a little of both, that the canopy extends too far back and the intakes end too far forward.

Also note that in all cases the canopy looks a bit flat, but again, too hard to determine without more info.

[bushande]

No pilots.

Well, either that or they left the box when I wasn't looking.

Thanks for the info. Just wanted to know if all those sets I already bought woulde have been for nothing. Good to know I they weren't. :D

[dehowie]

Hi Chris

Yep the measurements i took pretty much line up with what you have shown but with the kit in place it doesnt look anywhere near as bad or prominent as your drawings.

I was quite surprised tofind the probs with the TA kit but looked more closely after coming to the conclusion that the Trump canopy actually does look good and has quite good shape.

Its just the to far forward location which seems to be an issue hence the canopy front edge is only 26mm from the rear edge of the radome where the Tamiya canopy is 30mm.

As i said if you moce the canopy back a couple of mm which is quite easy to do as the canopy also has the frame and panel surround attached in a single piece it will look for people with issues quite a lot better.

Again im no rivet counter but i do like to know more than just "the canopy looks off" as its generally for a reason.

After seeing that to me it has a far better and more accurate shape to me than the Tamiya kit any problems people will have i believe are because its lightly to far forward.

Also the upper curve of the nose needs some sanding to make the drop off more steep and than isnt really shown in the pics above.

I think with a little sanding and slide the front canopy back a mm or two and we will have the best looking most accurate F14 to date.

[loftycomfort]

Terry, by looking at the cockpit halves, do you think the Black Box cockpit will fit?

I don't know if it'll fit. To be frank, the BB pit purchase is a bit of a gamble. I'll try my best to make things fit. I think I'll probably end up with a hybrid cockpit of resin, kit styrene, scratch built details, and bits from my Eduard F-14A PE set.

It won't be the first time I try to fit resin into a non-intended recipient. First time was fitting an Aires 1/32 A-7E seat into a BB 1/32 A-7E cockpit. Second time was fitting a BB 1/32 F-16A cockpit (for Hasegawa) into a Tamiya 1/32 F-16 for my F-16XL build. Glad to say both attempts were pretty successful.

Terry

[Av8fan]

Well,

I broke down and bought one at the LHS.

My friends there hadn't even looked in the box yet. So we opened it up and took a nice look through the sprues.

If Chris does a nose for it, I will buy it.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Av8fan

[Iron Man]

I just have to add my 2 cents in this. First if its to pricey don't buy it, second if you enter it in a contest do you think the judges will have schematics of the real plane to see if its 1mm or 2mm off. If you want to be a rivet counter then so be it. More power to you. But when I read threads like this is upsets me to know end that people are taking the fun out of the hobby. Whatever happened to do those days when you opened the box and looked at the boxart and said "Wow, I'm going to buid that" Who gives a flying flip if the nose is off by 1mm.

If you think you can design and put together your own kit then you should open your own buisness. Again I'm not bad mouthing the rivet counters but for people such as myself who are happy with the end product and it looks like the end product then I'm happy.

Happy Holidays

[leverancier]

I'm trying so hard to resist... I told myself that I was going to wait for the A, but another D in VF-31 markings look so tempting...

Is'nt anyone doing the same for the Trump super hornet? My wife is giving me that one for christmass so I haven't been able to look inside the box yet.

[niart17]

I just have to add my 2 cents in this. First if its to pricey don't buy it, second if you enter it in a contest do you think the judges will have schematics of the real plane to see if its 1mm or 2mm off. If you want to be a rivet counter then so be it. More power to you. But when I read threads like this is upsets me to know end that people are taking the fun out of the hobby. Whatever happened to do those days when you opened the box and looked at the boxart and said "Wow, I'm going to buid that" Who gives a flying flip if the nose is off by 1mm.

If you think you can design and put together your own kit then you should open your own buisness. Again I'm not bad mouthing the rivet counters but for people such as myself who are happy with the end product and it looks like the end product then I'm happy.

Happy Holidays

well with all due respect. perhaps you're trying to take the fun out of the hobby from other people. ever thought of that? to some people, discussing these issues is just as much fun as building the kits. so people get together and talk about 1mm differences in length, does that hinder you from opening your box and having fun? you can still open the box and give your flying flip about the length. there is no one preventing that. and no one making you read all of this nonsense.

Just my opinion though,

Bill

[mareku]

well with all due respect. perhaps you're trying to take the fun out of the hobby from other people. ever thought of that? to some people, discussing these issues is just as much fun as building the kits. so people get together and talk about 1mm differences in length, does that hinder you from opening your box and having fun? you can still open the box and give your flying flip about the length. there is no one preventing that. and no one making you read all of this nonsense.

Just my opinion though,

Bill

I´m sorry but korecting that "1 mm" mistakes is allso fun to some of us. I don´t think that take the fun out from the hobby, it gives more of the fun.

But, it is just my opinion though,

mareku <_<

[THX1138]

Well I've opened the box twice a day just to re-enjoy the moment. I actually got a smaller Xmas tree this year to make the box be the more prominent decoration in my room <_<

This hobby is called scale-modeling, so exact dimensions are important. But to me not to the point of ditching a kit that doesn't get above 95% accuracy. Especially not an F-14. The shortcommings are only food for future aftermarket parts and ways people will try to fix these, which is great even if you don't go down that road yourself. Free choice.

In the end, the effort (and fun) you put (and get) into building it is much more important then it's exact dimensions. An inaccurate kit will still turn out better in the hands of a great artist, then a 100% accurate kit in the hands of someone f-ing it up.

I guess the whole idea of this thread is to be informative. In no way should it be used to take the fun out it.

[Av8fan]

I like to know about issues with kits.

This way I can decide to buy it or not. If the issues are fixable, then I know what they are and I can decide to fix them or not.

We all approach the hobby from a different perspective. Our own.

I really respect the folks that will fix the errors. That just isn't me.

From what I saw here and elsewhere, this kit is worth getting. To others it wont be.

As far as I can tell no one has taken up arms over it and nor should they.

I view these conversations as something like a bit of a Tennis match. Back and forth and hopefully we all learn something in the process.