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THX1138

Unpacking the Trumpeter Tomcat

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Those panels don't look very good indeed. But I think after painting and washing it will look better. I sense an aftermarket on it's way for this.

And if you decide to open them, it won't matter at all.

Still, a bit of a shame. The nose of a Tomcat is very important. It's what makes it a Tomcat.

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Thx1138,

I agree the panels could be better. But it shouldn't take too much work to get them sealed up/puttied in.

Since I like the closed up look, I will be looking for the aftermarket for this.

Oh and PFUF is moving along on the build on

Large Scale Planes Page3

Edited by Av8fan

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thats exactly why i hate having panels open on the kit. they never fit right and it almost doesn't give you an open/closed option because of the amount of work involved.

for the amount of plastic it would add, they should have provided a second left nose piece with the panels closed.

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Still, a bit of a shame. The nose of a Tomcat is very important. It's what makes it a Tomcat.

I thought it was it's overall presence :salute:

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thats exactly why i hate having panels open on the kit. they never fit right and it almost doesn't give you an open/closed option because of the amount of work involved.

for the amount of plastic it would add, they should have provided a second left nose piece with the panels closed.

The thing is, closed panels or not, even if, in a best case scenario,Trumpeter were to release a new port-side fuselage with closed doors, the NACA ducts are still wrong, so whatever work you might have saved by not having to putty/sand the doors would be countered by the fact that you'd have to putty and scratch-build new ducts.

As for the idea of a set of resin doors to replace the kit parts, this also leaves me lukewarm. I scratch-build, mold and cast resin models for a living, and while resin parts are excellent for something like a cockpit, wheel wells or otherwise exposing something UNDER a panel where you have a fudge-factor which can be compensated for, the problem is that silicone molds DO shrink and distort, and so does a resin casting, even in the best of scenarios, so even if the master-pattern of a series of outer panels fits like a glove, the casting will be ever-so-slightly warped, requiring putty and sanding. The problem is thusly compounded as more castings are made from the mold, and more so if new molds are made from a set of resin "masters."

In a nutshell, getting aftermarket outer panels to fit like a glove is problematic at best. The only guy who I've seen be able to pull it off is Zactoman, and I'm sure even he will tell you that it's something of a challenge.

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Well, not only do those panels look bad when fitted but what's with the squared and seemingly shallow boarding step area. As more detailed pics of this kit are posted, I am beginning to doubt my ever getting one. I had high hopes for this kit (at least higher than that of what Tamiya currently offers) but I just don't see it all there. I mean, did you see this kit's landing gears from the link of the in-progress build that was posted? The word "simplified" does not even begin to describe those gears. As a modeler who loves the F-14 and as someone who's been holding off on buying the Tamiya kit because I had hoped for a 'better' kit to show up I am just a tad disappointed. I guess time will tell if I get this one or not.

All of above is, of course, only my opinion and nothing else.

Rob

Edited by TOPGUN

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Topgun,

I understand what you mean about the gear.

IIRC I seem to remember that someone is doing aftermarket gear for this kit.

Given the weight of the kit, I would be leaning towards aftermarket gear regardless.

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Tell it, brother! Not that I've held off on buying Tamiya kits - I have one of each issue - but all of the little things are really adding up here. I'd just as soon detail the Tamiya kit than re-detail the Trumpeter one.

I do want to see a build review by someone who really knows their stuff. Why am I not doing one, you ask? Because I'm not buying one.

As a modeler who loves the F-14 and as someone who's been holding out on not buying the Tamiya kit because I had hoped for a 'better' kit t show up I am just a tad disappointed.

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I'd just as soon detail the Tamiya kit than re-detail the Trumpeter one.

Exactly my thoughts!!

Although there is sure to be tons of AM sets developed for this kit, at closed to $200 retail for this Trump F-14, spending another $100+ on sets it's just not what I would call 'justified' for a 2009 kit. I can see the need with older releases such as that of Tamiya, but not so much in this case...

Rob

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I'd just as soon detail the Tamiya kit than re-detail the Trumpeter one.

I'd respectefully disagree , having battled through 3 Tamiya F-14's turning 1 into a B and one into a D , I'll take the Trumpter one every time now , no scribing , no removal of oversized scabs on the fordward fusalage , re-working the main U/C bays , sorry , I'm sticking with the new guy..

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Hey guys,

dont discuss so much, build this impressive kit :woot.gif: I do it. Please take a look to my in progress thread in the german Flugzeug Forum. You must be login as a member to see the pics. Thanks for looking and comments are welcome!

Edited by Tomcatfreak

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The fit on all the gun panels is just awful from what I'm seeing in the photos, and the NACA ducts are totally, totally wrong in shape, size, depth, proximity to each other...
The more I look, the more I see.

It looks like all the details and size, shape and location of the panels is just approximate.

It's even looking like the cannon is located too low on the fuselage.

Of course, I still lack reference and don't yet have the kit.

I did look back at the picture that THX1138 posted on page 4 showing a partial view of the kit from above.

It does show that the front edge of the intake is too far forward, at least in relation to the location of the rear step on the fuselage. Of course, this might be due to the random location of the fuselage details rather than the models overall proportions.

I'm still waiting for some overall photos to decide.

In a nutshell, getting aftermarket outer panels to fit like a glove is problematic at best. The only guy who I've seen be able to pull it off is Zactoman, and I'm sure even he will tell you that it's something of a challenge.
:woot.gif: Thank you for that vote of confidence...

Yes, it is a pain to get parts like this to fit properly.

There are ways to help control production variations but I find it is more-so getting the patterns correct in the first place.

Typically this requires that you:

Make the original patterns slightly over-sized to compensate for shrinkage. (Most aftermarket is made from modified kit parts so tends to be slightly undersized).

Pour a test mold and cast parts to check fit.

Adjusting the size/shape of the original pattern.

Pour production molds.

This process requires extra time and material cost which is why most companies will merely make/receive an original pattern and go straight to production...

Hey guys,

dont discuss so much, build this impressive kit :cheers: I do it. Please take a look to my in progress thread in the german Flugzeug Forum. You must be login as a member to see the pics. Thanks for looking and comments are welcome!

Many people are hesitant to join forums where you must log in as a member to merely see the pics.

Have you considered showing your work here at ARC?

You would be very welcome sharing your work in the in-progress forum or if you wouldn't mind posting a few pictures in this thread.

Cheers:

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I mean, did you see this kit's landing gears from the link of the in-progress build that was posted? The word "simplified" does not even begin to describe those gears.

If you're looking at the gear on page 2 keep in mind he hasn't put on the separate detail parts yet. Each gear leg seems to be a multi-piece assembly. On page 4 they look much better with the added pieces although I acknowledge that he's added some scratch lines and springs. Anyway, looking at page 4 I think the OOB gear should look pretty good and with some simple hydraulic lines it'll look very nice.

Just my thoughts.

I'm not sure about the cannon location. Those photos are a little hard to interpret with the perspective and angles. I'll have to head back to the hobby shop tomorrow and take a closer look. Unfortunately I don't have the plastic in hand.

Matt

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How they got the NACA vents so wrong is beyond me. Those aren't small details often covered in grime and shadows. They're among the most obvious features on the forward fuselage, and their exact shape and location is visible on many thousands of pics.

With a canopy or intake etc you can always use the excuse of "it's a complex curve", but this--this is just plain stupid.

Edited by David Hingtgen

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The more I look, the more I see.

It looks like all the details and size, shape and location of the panels is just approximate.

It's even looking like the cannon is located too low on the fuselage.

Of course, I still lack reference and don't yet have the kit.

I did look back at the picture that THX1138 posted on page 4 showing a partial view of the kit from above.

It does show that the front edge of the intake is too far forward, at least in relation to the location of the rear step on the fuselage. Of course, this might be due to the random location of the fuselage details rather than the models overall proportions.

I'm still waiting for some overall photos to decide.

:monkeydance: Thank you for that vote of confidence...

Yes, it is a pain to get parts like this to fit properly.

There are ways to help control production variations but I find it is more-so getting the patterns correct in the first place.

Typically this requires that you:

Make the original patterns slightly over-sized to compensate for shrinkage. (Most aftermarket is made from modified kit parts so tends to be slightly undersized).

Pour a test mold and cast parts to check fit.

Adjusting the size/shape of the original pattern.

Pour production molds.

This process requires extra time and material cost which is why most companies will merely make/receive an original pattern and go straight to production...

Many people are hesitant to join forums where you must log in as a member to merely see the pics.

Have you considered showing your work here at ARC?

You would be very welcome sharing your work in the in-progress forum or if you wouldn't mind posting a few pictures in this thread.

Cheers:

I tried to register on flugzeug but it's in German with no translation. I think also this is a good idea to post here. What about it Tomcat Freak????

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Well, I've read through this thread, and I'm proud to say my wife bought me this kit for a late Christmas gift, and I'm looking forward to building it as opposed to studying it for the next decade. I firmly come down on the side of those anti-rivet-counters - if the kit isn't accurate, then don't buy it, don't build it - move on to whatever kit gets you closer to modeling nirvana. As long as it assembles decently and I can make it look as close as possible to what an F-14 looks like to me, then I am happy. If, as others suggested here, the overlay of the kit parts and photos of the real thing make you happy - run with it! Everyone bitches and moans about every Trumpeter kit released, but can ANYONE point out an AMERICAN company putting out a single kit that we want these days? The fact of the matter is that Trumpeter is putting out kits we've been asking for for years. If we're lucky, the Revell of Germany Eurofighter will be coming out soon (and I look forward to the thread ripping that kit apart). This thread reminds me of an earlier thread asking the question "how many kits did you build this year?", and from most the answer was less than three. So why don't we all support this hobby of ours by taking a kit down from the closet shelf and actually BUILDING IT!!!!! Less analysis and more building!!! Thanks for your time reading this rant. I will now return to building my Hasegawa J-35 just the way the company made it - right out-of-the-box.... :salute:

Edited by jgrease

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Well, I've read through this thread, and I'm proud to say my wife bought me this kit for a late Christmas gift, and I'm looking forward to building it as opposed to studying it for the next decade. I firmly come down on the side of those anti-rivet-counters - if the kit isn't accurate, then don't buy it, don't build it - move on to whatever kit gets you closer to modeling nirvana. As long as it assembles decently and I can make it look as close as possible to what an F-14 looks like to me, then I am happy. If, as others suggested here, the overlay of the kit parts and photos of the real thing make you happy - run with it! Everyone bitches and moans about every Trumpeter kit released, but can ANYONE point out an AMERICAN company putting out a single kit that we want these days? The fact of the matter is that Trumpeter is putting out kits we've been asking for for years. If we're lucky, the Revell of Germany Eurofighter will be coming out soon (and I look forward to the thread ripping that kit apart). This thread reminds me of an earlier thread asking the question "how many kits did you build this year?", and from most the answer was less than three. So why don't we all support this hobby of ours by taking a kit down from the closet shelf and actually BUILDING IT!!!!! Less analysis and more building!!! Thanks for your time reading this rant. I will now return to building my Hasegawa J-35 just the way the company made it - right out-of-the-box.... :cheers:

Build something!!!! Are you serious!!!! Every single kit i have has a known inaccuracy!!! I HAVE to wait until there is a correction set!! And don`t get me started on markings!!!

Yeah, right. I`m in the same camp as you, jgrease, pi**ing and moaning about the kit and its inaccuracy are far less important to me than a kit that has good fit and buildability. I do wish some kits wern`t so over-engineered, 35+ parts for an engine that you will never see once assembled is dumb!! My spares box is thankful for it, though. My opinion, and if ya don`t like it, tough!!!

Don

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Well, I yanked mine out to the workbench today and started it. Got the seat frames assembled and I must say, I really appreciate the way Trumpeter set up the seat assembly: you can assemble everything that gets painted black, get it painted, then put the cushions on afterwards, rather than have the seat frames and cushions molded together. On the other hand, I HATE HATE HATE that they have the "bat ear" canopy busters as separate, tiny parts. They couldn't have molded them to the seat tops?????

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I tried to register on flugzeug but it's in German with no translation. I think also this is a good idea to post here. What about it Tomcat Freak????
I just tried re-activating my old account there and kept getting an error...
...I'm looking forward to building it as opposed to studying it for the next decade. I firmly come down on the side of those anti-rivet-counters - if the kit isn't accurate, then don't buy it, don't build it
pi**ing and moaning about the kit and its inaccuracy are far less important to me than a kit that has good fit and buildability.
You guys don't mind if those of us who do care about accuracy continue discussing the kit (here at this modeling discussion forum) do you?

I'm still waiting to see more of the kit before deciding if it's something I want to spend big bucks on.

As an aftermarket manufacturer I'm considering the errors as they are discovered, deciding if they are bad enough to need replacement parts or if they are even possible to fix.

I will now return to building my Hasegawa J-35 just the way the company made it - right out-of-the-box....
Don't you wish all kits were as nice as that one?

Then we wouldn't need to have these discussions...

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I tried to register on flugzeug but it's in German with no translation. I think also this is a good idea to post here. What about it Tomcat Freak????

Hey Guys, try this for translation. I used it a couple days ago to register and it worked out fine. Don't translate the whole page, that didn't work. If you do blocks of text you'll do fine. Just copy & paste. You'll also need to translate your confirmation e-mail. they have some good WIP's on there for both of the big Tomcats. :cheers:

Tommy

Forgot to add the link. http://babelfish.yahoo.com/

Edited by OldGuy

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You guys don't mind if those of us who do care about accuracy continue discussing the kit (here at this modeling discussion forum) do you?

Are you kidding? discuss models on a model discussion forum? that's just crazy talk there. i mean, the kits got two wings, a pointy nose and a few little stubby things sticking out tha back, what more do you want? what's to discuss? just glue em together and ya got yerself a bonified f-14 (or 15, whichever it looks closest to) model kit.

just kidding guys, it's whatever makes you happy. pursue your builds or collect the boxes, or take em and make frisbies out of them. i am personally going to wait on this one, mainly for costs reasons and honestly i'm more interested in the super hornet first. but i'm sure eventually i'll break down and buy one and i for one am happy that there are people (like Zacto) on the case and finding all the little things (or big things) that aren't totally accurate. then i can assess what i feel is important and change what i wish to, or not and build the kit that i want to build. and yea, who knows, perhaps the powers that be at these model companies do actually listen to the rivet counters and will correct these things when they really need correcting. (Mr. Song visits here regularly and i'm sure is taking all of this information in to account) so don't be offended by the details people just because you are an overall picture person. it takes both kinds in this hobby to make it what it is. otherwise, we'd just have a bunch of Kangdam Apachie type models that are just slightly above toys.

Bill

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Due to popular demand, I'll start the build tonight and report on it over here. My A-7E for the GB is comming along nice so I can do 2 things at once.

That way we can dicuss the dimensions and accuracy even more, without being forced to hop over to another site.

I'll probably f*%k it up anyway, so that way I can get another one next year :jaw-dropping:

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While we're waiting on THX's build, I'll kindly direct your attention to one build here:

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.ph...27287&st=30

If you look at the photo in post 31, you'll see that the lower corners on the intake opening are far too squared compared to the genuine Turkey.

You can also see it here in post # 68:

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.ph...27287&st=60

While it could merely be the angle at which the photo is taken, it also appears that the gun muzzle sits a good 1-2mm too low on the nose. The author of the build also mentions some ginormous gaps between the front coaming and the windscreen, which are plainly visible even with the windscreen in place.

Edit: can someone PUH-LEAAASE tell me why Trumpeter, in all its creative genius, decided to put the alignment pegs for the burner cans INSIDE the cans, thusly making them visible when the model is built?

Edited by Admiral T. Jurisdiction

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