dmthamade Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Okay, so i`m working on my Sluff for the GB yesterday. I had built up the wing assembly on Thursday last week using a new bottle of Tenax. Saturday i start sanding seams and the outer wing surfaces fall off!! They didnt break or crack, they simply fell apart!! The plastic where they were glued didn`t melt like always with Tenax, they came apart cleanly. I pried the upper and lower inner and outer wing halves apart as well, separating cleanly except for two spots. Thought it may have been a bad bottle of Tenax, but i used it on some scrap plastic and it worked fine. Okay then, Tried another tried and true glue made by MBS in Canada, and today went to sand seams and the wings fell apart again!! The glues just don`t seem to melt the plastic!! I have other parts i glued that seem fine, but the offending parts are from two sprues!! This is the first time i ever ran into this. I think i`m going to try a tube glue to see if the longer setting time will allow the plastic to melt and weld. I have to say, this build was a bit of a fight, but not being able to glue it will probably sink it. This is a bit of a heads-up to anyone that has the kit to check first. Don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Hingtgen Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Hmmn. The only time I've had "unglueable plastic" was my Italeri 1/48 F-14A+. (and I know I'm not the only one to encounter that issue with that kit) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkeye's Hobbies Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Okay, so i`m working on my Sluff for the GB yesterday. I had built up the wing assembly on Thursday last week using a new bottle of Tenax. Saturday i start sanding seams and the outer wing surfaces fall off!! They didnt break or crack, they simply fell apart!! The plastic where they were glued didn`t melt like always with Tenax, they came apart cleanly. I pried the upper and lower inner and outer wing halves apart as well, separating cleanly except for two spots. Thought it may have been a bad bottle of Tenax, but i used it on some scrap plastic and it worked fine. Okay then, Tried another tried and true glue made by MBS in Canada, and today went to sand seams and the wings fell apart again!! The glues just don`t seem to melt the plastic!! I have other parts i glued that seem fine, but the offending parts are from two sprues!! This is the first time i ever ran into this. I think i`m going to try a tube glue to see if the longer setting time will allow the plastic to melt and weld. I have to say, this build was a bit of a fight, but not being able to glue it will probably sink it. This is a bit of a heads-up to anyone that has the kit to check first.Don What did you apply it with? Sounds to me like you didn't get enough penetration, or there was something on the mating surfaces to prevent it from "welding". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richter111 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I had a Hasegawa 1/32 P-12 that refused to take paint. No matter what I cleaned it with, prepped it with, the paint, (all types) fisheyed and would not lay down Quote Link to post Share on other sites
is it windy yet? Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Okay, so i`m working on my Sluff for the GB yesterday. I had built up the wing assembly on Thursday last week using a new bottle of Tenax. Saturday i start sanding seams and the outer wing surfaces fall off!! They didnt break or crack, they simply fell apart!! The plastic where they were glued didn`t melt like always with Tenax, they came apart cleanly. I pried the upper and lower inner and outer wing halves apart as well, separating cleanly except for two spots. Thought it may have been a bad bottle of Tenax, but i used it on some scrap plastic and it worked fine. Okay then, Tried another tried and true glue made by MBS in Canada, and today went to sand seams and the wings fell apart again!! The glues just don`t seem to melt the plastic!! I have other parts i glued that seem fine, but the offending parts are from two sprues!! This is the first time i ever ran into this. I think i`m going to try a tube glue to see if the longer setting time will allow the plastic to melt and weld. I have to say, this build was a bit of a fight, but not being able to glue it will probably sink it. This is a bit of a heads-up to anyone that has the kit to check first.Don I'd like some more info about this MBS glue, a quick search online yielded nothing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neo Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 just a thought : Have you tried to sand with rouph sand paper the areas where you want to apply the glue? Have you tried to clean the surface with rubbing alcohol? might help to open some pores in the plastic ive never had the dont want to glue problem but ive had the paint doesent want to stay on so i sanded and cleaned it with rubbing alcohol and it solved my issue Hope this helps Cheers Neo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dmthamade Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Well, last night i tried Tamiya extra thin and it did the same thing!! There is no film on the parts, they`re just plain old model parts. Other parts from the same kit glued together fine, melted and welded solid. It`s just the stuff off one sprue, not two like i thought. I tried taking a load of glue on a brush, applying it on the backside of the part and pressing with a finger. This always causes problems, but on the part it left a small blemish. Just doesn`t want to melt the plastic. I`ve been building for around 20+ years, my methods of assembly are not to blame. There is something wrong with this sprue of parts. MBS stands for Model Builders Supply, they do plastic structure stuff for miniatures and doll houses. http://www.modelbuilderssupply.com/product...s&S=SOLVENT shows the solvent. I usually buy the 100ml size but it seems to be hard to find, now. The shop i used to buy it went out of business and haven`t found a retailer yet. It behaves exactly like Tenax, but is a lot cheaper. IIRC a 100ml bottle was the same cost as a small bottle of Tenax. Now that Tenax seems to be hard to find, i`ll have to look harder for the MBS stuff. Don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Beary Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Out of curiosity, have you tried MEK..methyl ethyl ketone? I saw some in Home Depot recently. About 8-10 dollars for a can of it. Might be worth a try here. And if it doesn't work you still have a good supply of plastic solvent for other kits. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Hingtgen Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) A lot of the thin/watery glues have MEK in them already, and if none of them are working at all, I wonder about the likelihood of pure MEK doing better. You know, now that I think about it, I do think it was just one or two sprues of my Italeri F-14 that had gluing issues. The weapons and wheels were ok, but the fuselage... Edited December 10, 2009 by David Hingtgen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richter111 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Just a thought, get a hold of trumpeter, They should send you new parts, as I would imagine they would want to check out their quality control. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CF104 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Did you pick the kit up at a local shop? If so, take the sprue in question back to them and they should be the ones contacting Trumpeter while giving you a replacement. If not, disregard everything I just said. :lol: Cheers, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cunumdrum61 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I've built two of these kits and never had a problem. I think you have some mold release compound that maybe contaminated the plastic. I would try some straight lacquer thinner on it as glue. Be very careful with MEK it is a very toxic carcinogen to your health. You could contact Stevens International direct. They should replace the parts for free. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aigore Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Try Ethyl acetate instead.....it´s not poisonous, methyl is nasty stuff! Ethyl acetate is the stuff! :lol: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blunce Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Just a thought, get a hold of trumpeter, They should send you new parts, as I would imagine they would want to check out their quality control. Good luck with that, they wouldn't even respond to my inquiry about replacing the mispelled decals in my 1/32 P-47N Build. :lol: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FIGHTS ON Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 following your original post I glued my 'outer' wing halves together last night. I used Revell liquid glue and had no problem (although unlike the inner wing halves the fit wasn't as easy & fought me all the way). Being aware of your problem I used spring loaded clamps to hold them for an hour. Now although I say it was "no problem", the bond is certainly strong enough for me to sand & paint, I was able to 'pry apart' one of the outer sections (thankfully without doing any damage). Where the glue had taken hold there was a 'little' melting, but I certainly would have expected a stronger join. I have since re-glued that wing section back together. I did have real difficultly in joining the 2 fuselage halves together and had to used superglue ('Zap-a-gap') on key areas as the Revell liquid glue didn't hold. I had just assumed that this was my bad modelling skills, but having given some thought to this following your original post, maybe there is something in the plastic? (i have done a Trumpeter 1/48 Wyvrn & Panther - no issue and a 1/32 A-10, again no problems. I will definitely try & get some of my A-7 pictures onto the GB web page this weekend! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
72linerlover Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Sorry guys, but we have a member from Trumpeter: Song. Why don't ask him? Regards Euge Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THX1138 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I build an A-7E earlier this year. The exhaust area of the body, did pop apart once. But glueing it again made it stick. Model is still in 1 piece on the shelf as we speak. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dmthamade Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 Hey guys, sorry i haven`t responded. Tried Ambroid Pro-Weld last night on the outer wing panels, gluing them together and gluing them to the main wing section. Tonight i gave the assembly a slight flex and the outer panels came away with no damage to the parts. I then flexed the outer panels and they separated as well. I will say this, there are sections where the glue did seem to work, but the entire wing section is a failure. Even the little fingers on the wing fold hinge line came away unscathed. The shop where i bought the kit is closed, now. I think i bought it when it was first released, 2-3 years ago. FIGHTS ON, it`s funny you mention problems with the fuselage , i glued the rudder together, let it set, gave it a flex and it came apart. It was part of the fuselage sprue. I`ve glued other parts to the fuselage halves and they were OK, but it seems if two parts from the same sprue are glued together the joint fails. I`m done with this build, Any model that won`t glue together is just baaaaad juju!! I think i may experiment to see if the parts are OK when attached to differing sprues more closely. The rest of the stuff i will use for spares on my A-7D build, maybe i should get an exorcist to " clean" it up first. I`ve build 4-5 Trumpeter kits with no problems as far as gluing them together, in fact this is the first kit that this has happened to me. Don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spejic Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 2-part epoxy will glue it if nothing else will. Just roughen the joining areas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dragonfly Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Wow! this is all too weird. Sorry to hear about your problems. Hope you get it sorted out. Jerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phantom Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Try good old fashioned Testors glue in a tube. Been using that for over 30 years now and still have yet to have a model that has not stuck together. None of that fancy liquid bottle with a paint brush for me. Old school........OLD SCHOOOOOOOOLLLLLL!!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedHeadKevin Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 -Have you tried washing the parts in soap and water? You might have some sort of film on them that you're not seeing. -The brittle/crumbling plastic is probably due to Trumpeter recycling scrap plastic when they molded it. (re-melted/re-molded styrene has different properties than fresh stuff.) -Write/call/email Trumpeter, and see if they'll replace the kit. You shouldn't have to resort to 5-minute epoxy, ARC welding or other exotic methods to put a model together. This is clearly a manufacturing defect, and should be dealt with as such. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dmthamade Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 Try good old fashioned Testors glue in a tube. Been using that for over 30 years now and still have yet to have a model that has not stuck together.None of that fancy liquid bottle with a paint brush for me. Old school........OLD SCHOOOOOOOOLLLLLL!!!!!! What the hell is tube glue!!??? :D :lol: I`ll have to go to the hobby shop as i haven`t used tube glue in a loooonnnngggg time. I will try it because i think the longer setting time will allow the plastic to melt and weld together. -Have you tried washing the parts in soap and water? You might have some sort of film on them that you're not seeing. -The brittle/crumbling plastic is probably due to Trumpeter recycling scrap plastic when they molded it. (re-melted/re-molded styrene has different properties than fresh stuff.) -Write/call/email Trumpeter, and see if they'll replace the kit. You shouldn't have to resort to 5-minute epoxy, ARC welding or other exotic methods to put a model together. This is clearly a manufacturing defect, and should be dealt with as such. Yup, washed it, scrubbed it, scraped it, sanded it, did everything but pray to it. The parts aren`t brittle or crumbling, they separate cleanly. Couple of pics to show. The first shows how the small hinge parts have survived multiple gluings with little damage. This is a pic of the inside surface. You can see how there is very little evidence of melting plastic or damage/marring around the area. It`s like the glues have evaporated before the plastic has had a chance to melt and weld. Both of these are after multiple passes with various glues, all of them proven to bond well and to cause damage when overdone or used improperly. The assembler (me) has used the stuff for a looonnnggg time, i can`t fault my methods. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gotarheelz14 Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Lol wow man this is sooooo weird. At this point I am beginning to doubt that its even plastic!!! :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dmthamade Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 Tried tube glue yesterday on the outer wings. This morning, gave them a small flex and they came apart. There was evidence they did melt more and the tips actually did seem to glue up, but the rest wouldn`t glue. That`s it for me, wasted enough time on this kit. Time to move on... Don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.