Israeli F-15 Baz questions????

[scotthldr]

Need some questions answered regarding the Israeli F-15D Baz

1. What ejection seats would be fitted? Aces II but early or late versions?

2. What is the difference in the AGM 142 Popeye and AGM 142 Have Lite? And what are these fitted to this a/c inc centrline data pod?

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t111/sc...ldr/1521650.jpg

3. What AAM's would be carried ? Python 3 or 4 and would the IAF adaptor rail be used if Popeyes were fitted on the wing pylons

Anything else that may be of importance to building a Baz is gratefully appreciated.

Thanks

Scott

[Dave Williams]

1. Not sure the difference you are talking about between the early and late versions of the seat? Fold up probes or fixed, maybe?

2. The Have Lite is a smaller version for use on F-16s. Those in the picture are full Popeyes

3. Baz carry P3 or P4, sometimes both together. However, I think no missiles can be carried on the wing pylons when Popeyes are carried there due to interference with the wings of the Popeye.

[4scourge7]

Hi Scott

1- Israel got some early F-15 that had the Escapac seat before they standardised on the ACESII.

2- The pod you point to is the data-link between the Popeye and the aircraft.

3- Wing mounted Python three can`t be used with wing-mounted Popeye, Python four or sidewinder rails can be carried but without missiles, but usually a `stunted` missileless pylon is carried.

I`m pretty sure that Python three can`t be carried on the inner rail if FAST packs are fitted. Some Israeli BAZ have new RWR fitted at the rear of their tail booms like American Eagles.

Baz with Popeye;

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Israel---Ai...346e255853c2d4b

With no RWR on tail booms and `turkey feather` `burner cans;

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Israel---Ai...346e255853c2d4b

With new RWR at tail boom rear and without `turkey feather` `burner cans;

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Israel---Ai...346e255853c2d4b

Baz overview;

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/air...t/f-15/F-15.htm

It`s worth researching which individual jet that you are building to find out what configuration it is in. Once the research is done things get easier than they sound, I promise! :blink:

Cheers, Ian

PS- the `stunted` missile rails I talked of, in use with Popeye, the usual fit with wing mountd Popeyes on Israeli F-15.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Israel---Ai...346e255853c2d4b

PPS- and behind the Popeye where a Sparrow should be on the fuselage, that long box is an Elta electronic warfare pod.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Ian Buick

[Dave Williams]

F-15C in the 5xx range and F-15D in the 7xx range have the rear RWR antenna.

To be clear, in the last picture above, those aren't stunted missile rails. Those are the adapter pylons that go between the rails and the underwing pylon, with the rail itself removed.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Dave Williams

[scotthldr]

Thanks for that Ian.

I'm going to try and build this a/c

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t111/sc...ldr/1521650.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t111/sc...ldr/1525398.jpg

or at least in a similar configuration/markings

So far I've sourced the ACES II seats type B (I believe), AGM 142 Popeye and Data link pod, Python 3 & 4 AAM + extended pylon launch rail and the Isradecal "Baz" decal sheet. Still trying to source a pair of CFT's

However I don't know if this a/c has the Turkey feather exhausts or RWR fairings.(Ok Dave has already answered this, cheers)

Also there appears to be another pod in this pic on the Port Fuselage stations, what is it?

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t111/sc...ldr/1525399.jpg

Scott

Edited January 2, 2010 by scotthldr

[Matt Roberts]

ELTA 8212/8222 ECM pod.

From what it looks like the new Academy Ra'am boxing has one (or two) included on the new sprues.

Post #4 'redded' out in lower right corner below the data link pods. Not sure if Ra'am (F-15I) uses them but the Baz does as well as some Aggressor USAF Eagles. Furthering hopes that Academy will release a fighter updated kit.

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index....198967&st=0

Are you using the Hasegawa 'F-15E' as a base? That is the only one that has the CFT missile rails that the pic you asked about has on it. Ask me how I know.....I have had a Tunis Raid Baz 98% done for two years waiting for those stupid rails, and the older style GBU-15, again I'll get one in the Ra'am kit. I am this close to finally finishing it after about 6 years!

Happy Modeling

Matt

[scotthldr]

.

Are you using the Hasegawa 'F-15E' as a base? That is the only one that has the CFT missile rails that the pic you asked about has on it.

Hi Matt,

I'll be using the F15DJ kit as the base, I think I have everything sourced except the CFT's which I'm hoping someone will sell or trade me.

This is what I think I'll need so far

ACES II Type B seats (Aires)

AGM 142 Popeyes + Data pod (Paragon)

Python 3 + extended rail (Paragon)

Python 4 (Paragon)

Elta 8222 ECM pod (Paragon)

Turkey Feather burners (Aires)

F15 Baz decals (Isradecal)

and possibly

Hasegawa F-15E complete kit for the CFT's and launch rails.

Aires F-15I or E cockpit? I'm thinking this, as I've read that the Baz 2000 program a/c have avionics similar to the F15I or are these the a/c with the 7xx serials?

Sorry for the amount of questions, but my knowledge of Israeli a/c is pretty limited.

Scott

Edited January 3, 2010 by scotthldr

[4scourge7]

To be clear, in the last picture above, those aren't stunted missile rails. Those are the adapter pylons that go between the rails and the underwing pylon, with the rail itself removed.

That is kind of what I meant, as in they are stunted looking without the missile rail, kind of got my foot in mouth there.

ELTA 8212/8222 ECM pod.

Not sure if Ra'am (F-15I) uses them but the Baz does as well as some Aggressor USAF Eagles.

I suspect not as Baz improvements came from the F-15I program, which carries internal EW `stuff` as part of it`s strike mission. But you never know with the Israelis, I have not seen a pic of a Ra`am carrying the Elta pod but that doesn`t mean one doesn`t exist.

Post in the `believe-it-when-I-see-it` file I think. :wub:

Cheers, Ian

[BMH]

Some missile questions:

Did the IDFAF ever use AIM-9s on the Baz? If I'm building a Baz from the late 70s to mid 80s, are they OK and what version/s?

Improved Baz Python 4 & AMRAAM question:

I've seen shots of F-16Cs with P-4s on the same old rails USAF had before AMRAAMs were used on the 16.

Does that mean it would be accurate to mount P-4s on the kit rails in the Tamiya 1/32 F-15J kit, or is there a special Israeli made rail for the P-4 on F-15s?

Thinking about building an Improved Baz (tail eagle markings look way cool!) and wonder if 4 P-4s is an accurate loadout. Seen mixed P-3 & P-4s, but I like the look of 4X P-4s better.

Finally, is the AMRAAM now being used in place of the AIM-7 for the present day/recent Baz? All AMRAAMs or mixed.

Thanks for any info.

[Dave Williams]

IAF F-15s used AIM-9D at first and then AIM-9L. For very early Baz, it would have probably been AIM-9D.

P4s go on Sidewinder type rails on both the F-16 and F-15. They do not go on the LAU-type rails used for AIM-120.

4x P4 is an accurate loadout.

AIM-120s seem to be limited to the F-15I amd F-16I. Baz seem to still be using Sparrow.

[BMH]

IAF F-15s used AIM-9D at first and then AIM-9L. For very early Baz, it would have probably been AIM-9D.

P4s go on Sidewinder type rails on both the F-16 and F-15. They do not go on the LAU-type rails used for AIM-120.

4x P4 is an accurate loadout.

AIM-120s seem to be limited to the F-15I amd F-16I. Baz seem to still be using Sparrow.

You d'man!

Thanks & Happy New Year.

[toolo12]

Hi Scott,

I guess you know it but to be sure - why don't you get a copy of the Isradecal F-15 Baz book?

You will get all the info you need - ordenance, cockpit photos, history and more.

Highly recommended!

http://www.isradecal.com/?storeid=110&...cts&id=3952

[Matt Roberts]

http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=ID2006

Squadron has it on sale this month for under $30, regularly $44.

Think of it as being about what a decal set or PE upgrade costs now.

Matt

[Eri]

I m starting my BAz build soon, well right after my Aggressor Scooter. But currently i m shopping for the list of stuff to get for the project.

Here are what I ve source and procured or yet too.

1) ISRADecal 1/48 BAz Decal

2) Academy MSIP II xMSIP II

3) Resin Seat ACES II Seats

4) Phyton from SkunkWorks, IAF weapons set.

5) Hasegawa Weapons Set B

Can you guys comment on what else i need or to omit?

[scotthldr]

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t111/sc...ldr/1525399.jpg

In the linked photograph above there is a Small ECM pod on the rear of the Port CFT. I'm led to believe that this is an ELTA 8222 ECM pod, although I have to say it doesn't look like one for that angle. I've never seen any photographs of the ELTA 8222 fitted to an a/c with CFT's fitted, only photos showing the pod fitted into the front port side AIM7 Sparrow recess. I've just bought the Paragon Design 8222 and it comes with the Sparrow recess adaptor nothing else and the Wolfpack version is the same.

So can anyone comfirm the pod in the photo and if it is an 8222 how would it be attached to the fuselage at that location. If anyone has photos of F-15D 979 that aren't aleady on Airliners.net or Jetphotos would you be able to send me copies.

Thanks in advance

Scott

[-dako-]

I have had a Tunis Raid Baz 98% done for two years waiting for those stupid rails, and the older style GBU-15, again I'll get one in the Ra'am kit. I am this close to finally finishing it after about 6 years!

I am also building one based on the Hasegawa F-15E. I got the old style GB-15 from Paragon. But what is the problem with the Sidewinder rails? I thought the F-15D in this time had normal rails (of cpourse without carrying the Sidewinders) even when carrying GBU-15?

[Eri]

I ve received all my orders, its a matter of time before i start on the cockpit. I ve decided to build a Baz with Mig kills. Before the days of CFT. Ironically i ve all the modern attachments except for a CFT. sigh..

[kurnass77]

Hi Scott,

The Baz Israbook stated that only the forward left side Sparrow recess or CFT pylon is wired for the Elta pod.

Also Baz 979 has neither the tail boom RWR neither the turkey feathers; after the Improved Baz program all the IDF F-15 can carry the AMRAAM .

I'm not sure if 979 has the cannon muzzle sealed but look like only the F-15D in the 7XX serial range have this modification.

Dako, during the Tunis Raid the F-15D were armed with the CFT ,one external fuel tank and two AIM-9L under the right wing, two Sparrow on the starboard CFT, a datalink pod on the centerline and a GBU-15 under the port wing without the IR missile launcher rail or adaptors .

Scott I sent you a PM with the photos of both the cockpit of an Improved Baz because it comes from a book and then not be published on the forum.

I hope to be helpful.

:D Gianni

[Eri]

kurnass, can i have the cockpit pictures too? I m starting on my ejection seats now.

[kurnass77]

Another thing about the ACES II ; after a fatal incident in the 1991 involving a malfunction of the ejection system, the IDF replaced the ESCAPAC with the McDonnell-Douglas seat and the process was completed by the end of the 1993.

Maybe this info can help you to select the right version of the bang seat...

Cheers,Gianni

[kurnass77]

No problem Eri!

Gianni

[Eri]

May i know what color is the inside walls of the cockpit? Is it black?

[kurnass77]

You guessed it, the black for the F-15/16 pits is related to the use of NVGs by the IDF.

:) Gianni

[Eri]

You guessed it, the black for the F-15/16 pits is related to the use of NVGs by the IDF.

:) Gianni

Thanks Gianni,

I m going to start on the cockpit tonight

[Eri]

Gianni,

One more question. The avionics bay at the rear of the pilot seats, is everything in black or egg green? I m getting confuse, cos i notice some of the other modellers painted the rear bay in green.