janman Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Certainly not fatal flaws, but irritating. And they all add up to a disappointment. That pretty much sums up how I feel. I'm really looking forward to see the resin "Kitchens". Any price estimation for one missile? My original intention was to fix the kit missiles, but since there are so many other minor issues on the kit, the fictional bomb bays being one big issue (which I would really like to correct and super-detail) and I just can't find more time for modeling without badly neglecting our 10 month old daughter, I might take the easy route. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sauragnmon Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Matt, Being the one who first termed it "There goes the Neighbourhood" I'll answer - it's the fully stacked FAB-250 loading - 36 in the bay, 36 on the MERs, a whole lot of presents for the people you don't really like. I figure it'd look right at home on a Tu-22M2, just like I would love to find a Blinder in 144 and find a FAB-5000 to put in the bay. I have a soft spot for bombers doing what they were born to do - dropping bombs. I eventually plan to have two M3's as well, one with ten Kh-15's, one with three Kh-22. I can't abide an aircraft with empty hardpoints, it just seems... empty to me. It's a character flaw of mine I think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 You're right. My initial inspection was based on the Gordon drawings, which are less accurate than the M-Hobby. Great case in point that scale drawings can't always be trusted. (plus, there's a difference between the Tu-22's Kh-22, and the Tu-22Mx's Kh-22, just for some added confusion!)That being said, there's still many issues with the kit parts. The body diameter/taper IS off. The wings aren't bad in shape, but all the tail planes are oversized. Panel detail is completely wrong. Most notably in the "zig-zag" lines along the control surfaces. I strongly suspect that Trumpeter used not-very-high-res scans of the M-Hobby drawings, which display kinda like zig-zag lines, when they're actually (as printed in the original) offset rivets. They misinterpreted their references, and it looks terrible, like they were trying to replicate a hinge or something. And IMO worst of all, the fairings/cable ducts/thingamy along the bottom, is completely wrong. The front bit should have a triangular cross section, not trapezoidal. The long portion behind it is semi-circular (essentially), but the kit has what amounts to a thin fin. Very wrong. Certainly not fatal flaws, but irritating. And they all add up to a disappointment. Probably more noticeable to me because I've been scratching some replacements, but still, wrong is wrong. Certainly better than Esci's Kitchen, but they could still use improvement. Speaking of which (replacements, not being wrong ;))... the Twomikes Kh-22 masters are progressing nicely. The body is done. The fins are all done. I'm basically down to tweaking the cable ducts, and particularly the transition between the semi-circular and triangular sections. And then doing the back-end. Now, if the missile were just a direct replacement for the kit parts, I don't know that it would really be worth doing, from a visual accuracy standpoint - they're partly hidden, they're not HORRIBLY inaccurate, so many modellers could probably live with them. Scribe a couple of panel lines and sand down some fins vs. a resin alternative. (to really simplify it) But there's actually two big, added benefits (besides detail) to a resin replacement. First, if you want to do a 3x loadout, you'll be able to. I've done a bomb bay insert that'll make it easy to mount a centerline missile, and you won't have to cannibalize a second $100+ kit just for the ordnance. And secondly, I can do both versions of the missile, accurately. Both radome styles. Both cable ducts/fairings. If you want to do an A, you can. If you want an N, you can do that too. So they'll give you options the kit part doesn't, AND be more accurate/detailed to boot. Horses for courses, MoFo - your work on the replacement Kh-22's is outstanding - it just doesn't float my boat. Now - how about those FAB-1500's ??? what's the word on those ??? Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 Anyway, I've made a start on my M3.......... I'm using the excellent NeOmega KT-1 resin seats - but they are too tall. I can't believe that Alexei has got them wrong - I suspect they are correct - but (I think??) they are designed to fit a forthcoming replacement cockpit set from NeOmega. I can't wait - so I am modifying the Trumpeter cockpit to take them.... I could simply remove resin from the bottom of the seats until they fit - but that means losing that lovely detail. So I am 'lowering' the Trumpeter floor - or rather making footwells so I don't have to extend the bulkheads and everything else.... The first job is to cut out the floor beneath the seats - making sure that the bulkheads and side consoles still fit.... (I have straightened those edges up - I promise!!) I then added side walls and a floor from plastic card to box in the wells - making sure that the whole floor assembly still fits inside the lower fuselage half.... The seats now fit perfectly - I can pop them in at the end of the build, adjusting the height with shims as necessary... It's a simple fix - OK it shouldn't be needed, but it ain't too onerous. Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
janman Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Clever fix, Ken! The seats truly look good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mario krijan Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 great start Ken! i agree with Jan! Who is that smiley young man in seat?? :-P Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Two Mikes Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Horses for courses, MoFo - your work on the replacement Kh-22's is outstanding - it just doesn't float my boat.Now - how about those FAB-1500's ??? what's the word on those ??? Ken Ken Read my post on page 1. I have the masters from MoFo and am casting them now. ;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JeskiM Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Matt,Being the one who first termed it "There goes the Neighbourhood" I'll answer - it's the fully stacked FAB-250 loading - 36 in the bay, 36 on the MERs, a whole lot of presents for the people you don't really like. I figure it'd look right at home on a Tu-22M2, just like I would love to find a Blinder in 144 and find a FAB-5000 to put in the bay. I have a soft spot for bombers doing what they were born to do - dropping bombs. I eventually plan to have two M3's as well, one with ten Kh-15's, one with three Kh-22. I can't abide an aircraft with empty hardpoints, it just seems... empty to me. It's a character flaw of mine I think. We share the same flaw ... if it has a hard point, I load it, fair and simple. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sauragnmon Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Ken - nifty fix on the seats vs pit issue - nothing a little smart thinking and finesse can't fix for those gorgeous seats to get into place. TwoMikes - can't bloody wait to see the big FAB's available - I've got a Badger just begging for a nine grand in the bay, and she'll look beautiful with that massive stone in place. I'd love to get my grubby paws on a few of those bigger hitters just for my own enjoyment. Matt - yeah, I can't help but load every hardpoint I can find on a plane with a logical weapon - my Naval Viper Project left me smashing my head trying to figure out what to put on the center wing hardpoints for a little bit until a buddy suggested Sparrows and I made a new version Sparrow with IR seeker on it. Hell, sometimes I even Make hardpoints just to add weapons - I semi-recessed four 120C's down the side of the fuselage just because I could. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saguanay Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Anyone know of any web based images that can be used (drawings) of the FAB series? Looking for references for 3D models. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Try here: http://maic.jmu.edu/ordata/search.asp just type in FAB in the munitions name and it'll give you a listing of assorted bombs. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saguanay Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Thank you very much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saguanay Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Does anyone know about the bay for the Kh-22 when fired. What happens to the bay doors? and the extra extension doors. Are they left open or do they close? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sauragnmon Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 I don't know about the main doors when carrying a Kh-22, but I know the extension doors fold inwards when the missile is carried - they have obvious mechanics to that effect. I'm guessing they have a system to pull the main doors inward for carriage of the Kh-22, and considering the way the bay would mess with flight dynamics when open and going at any speed, I would hazard a guess that they close the doors after launch. Just my guesses to the effect, I'm sure others more knowledgable than I can clarify. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saguanay Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 (edited) Thats our thinking. The doors must close once the weapon is off the rail to keep the clean airflow on the bottom surface. Too much drag if not. Instead of another post for another question - The 9 vent doors on the intakes I understand open when the aircraft is at slow speed to allow the engines to injest more air. There is another set of doors on the intakes, does anyone know what they do or their range of motion is? I have resources but can only find refs of it but not enough details to make it move. PS - Sorry to the thread author for the questions. I'm looking forward to more of your progress shots. Edited January 13, 2010 by Saguanay Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoFo Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 The missile doors (nose and tail extension) have actuators to open/close as needed. Doors retract up into the fuselage when the missile is carried, and extend down when it's not. This includes in-flight. The bomb bay doors are "double hinged" - there's a hinge along the middle (length) of the doors - the centre portion can be retracted up into the bomb bay, so the missile can be installed. You can see this interior hinge in the bomb bay pics farther up this thread. Again, they'd be retracted to make room for the missile, then extended back down if/when the missile was fired. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eastern Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 http://spotters.net.ua/file/?id=3393Bomb was perhaps more - not 63, and 69. Именно so much you can trailer to access this Airplane bombs FAB-250-46. 33 of them in hruzootseke, and 36 for suspension of foreign. translated with Google translator! that's only 69, but it is same for bombed on ground http://spotters.net.ua/file/?id=1348 All machine translators are dull and ridiculous things! Alexander. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JackMan Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Having already made their Tu-22M2 Ken, excuse my ignorance but what is that missile called? That huge silver one under the left wing of your TU-22M2? Is it the same as the one depicted next to this Vietnamese SU-22 http://www.tagvn.com/userfiles/image/sucma...uvietnam/20.jpg & is it the same as the one next to this ex-Iraqi SU-22: http://www.irandefence.net/gallery/data/501/iraqi_su22_4.jpg http://www.irandefence.net/gallery/data/501/iraqi_su22_3.jpg And was it aftermarket or did it come with the kit? Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Ken, excuse my ignorance but what is that missile called? That huge silver one under the left wing of your TU-22M2? Is it the same as the one depicted next to this Vietnamese SU-22Thanks That is Kh-22. I think it is same missile as seen on iraqi and vietnam pictures. It looks smaller tho. :wacko: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 Ken, excuse my ignorance but what is that missile called? That huge silver one under the left wing of your TU-22M2? Is it the same as the one depicted next to this Vietnamese SU-22http://www.tagvn.com/userfiles/image/sucma...uvietnam/20.jpg & is it the same as the one next to this ex-Iraqi SU-22: http://www.irandefence.net/gallery/data/501/iraqi_su22_4.jpg http://www.irandefence.net/gallery/data/501/iraqi_su22_3.jpg And was it aftermarket or did it come with the kit? Thanks The missile on my Backfire is the massive Kh-22 (AS-4 Kitchen) - length is 11.77m / 38 ft - two of them are included in the kit. As discussed above - there are some minor (IMHO) shape issues with it - but it looks OK to me. The missiles in your links is the much smaller Kh-28 (AS-9 Kyle) - length 6m / 19ft. The Kh-22 is a strategic cruise missile - nuclear tipped in one variant. The Kh-28 is an anti-radar missile. HTH Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
janman Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 The smaller missile is a Kh-28 ("Kyle", as far as I remember) anti-radiation missile Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sauragnmon Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Interesting, I think that's the first time I've seen a Kh-28 - I kept thinking it was something like an AS-6. I knew there were a few Russian missiles that have a similar airframe design like that, with the delta tail on a long point-tipped body like that, I don't think I'd ever seen the (I think) smallest of the family. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Two Mikes Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Gents I will post up some FAB Bomb pics this weekend. Time is not my friend at the moment Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 the Twomikes Kh-22 masters are progressing nicely. The body is done. The fins are all done. I'm basically down to tweaking the cable ducts, and particularly the transition between the semi-circular and triangular sections. And then doing the back-end. Mike, I did a 'walkround' of the Kh-22 at Monino last August - including some shots of the cover over electrical connections in the top of the missile body. There are about 15 images - but they are approx 3Mb each in size. I can reduce them in size if needed - let me know if you want them - and if so, how to get them to you..... Cheers Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoFo Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 PM inbound, Ken. Also, for anyone who's interested, an update on the Kh-22 bits: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index....howtopic=201107 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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