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I'm still fairly new to the site here, and I would like to know the proper etiquette here. If when people ask for comments on their models, do they really want all comments, good and bad, or do they want just all the nice "WOW! Great job!!!" kinds of comments? What if someone has done a very nice model, has dozens of people telling him what a great job he did, yet you can plainly see several errors in the model. Do you just let it go, or do you try to gently say, "yeah it's nice, but..." And how about if one's own modeling skills aren't nearly as good as the modeler in question, yet one knows a good bit about the real aircraft and can see the errors, is it then kosher to comment in the negative? Or do most of you subscribe to the "if you don't have something nice to say, then don't say it at all" plan? Or maybe just accept that a lot of people here really don't care all that much about making a true-to-scale model, and artistic license is absolutely fine no matter how much it doesn't look like the real airplane?

Thanks for your thoughts,

Scott Wilson

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Scott, gently letting the builder know of the errors is always a nice thing, as said, doing it in a nice way ...

But if done in a harsh or mean spirited way would most likely be frowned upon by most of the membership here ...

I've seen many mistakes pointed out over the years here...

Do:

"Hey great looking build so far but you might want to check how you mounted those missiles ..." or " Nicely done but your color choice is off, try_____ instead ..." :thumbsup:

Don't:

"Dude, what were you thinking, Tomcats never even carried that GBU, what an idiot !" :angry:

And if the mistake has already been pointed out by a previous poster, why pile on unless you have important information for the right steps in correcting the mistake ....

Most recipients appreciate the constructive criticism ...

Gregg

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I'm likewise new here and have asked myself the same question. I've seen very few actual critiques, so I'd say people are hesitant to post critical comments, especially when they don't know the modeler in question. I think members here are extremely nice folks and are afraid they may hurt someone's feelings, or perhaps be chastised by other members for being critical.

I think they are wrong however. If most members are like me, they are older, have accepted who they are and realize their current levels of knowledge and skill at modeling. As someone who has dabbled in graphic art all his life, it is frustrating for me to ask someone for a critique of something I've created, only to hear a bunch of crap about how great it is when I know it has flaws. It's dishonest and it belittles your hard effort towards perfection. We're (mostly) all big boys here and our skin should be thick enough to take honest constructive criticism. Empty platitudes are boring to read and useless to someone looking to improve themselves. I'm not saying that if you're impressed by a great model build you shouldn't say so, I'm just saying if someone post their build in the "critiques" forum they deserve your honest opinion. Plus, it exposes other interested readers to your subject knowledge (right or wrong). :thumbsup:

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Giving critique can be tricky....specially to unknown ppl, as Unit said. Unless a person asks for critique outright or that I know the person, I don´t give critique.

PPl who post here are of very different skill levels and ages, I don´t want to scare anybody off the forum. I prefer to wait until I´ve seen a few builds of a person to determin skill level before I start critizising and to give hints and tips in their build threads.

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I'm likewise new here and have asked myself the same question. I've seen very few actual critiques, so I'd say people are hesitant to post critical comments, especially when they don't know the modeler in question. I think members here are extremely nice folks and are afraid they may hurt someone's feelings, or perhaps be chastised by other members for being critical.

I think they are wrong however. If most members are like me, they are older, have accepted who they are and realize their current levels of knowledge and skill at modeling. As someone who has dabbled in graphic art all his life, it is frustrating for me to ask someone for a critique of something I've created, only to hear a bunch of crap about how great it is when I know it has flaws. It's dishonest and it belittles your hard effort towards perfection. We're (mostly) all big boys here and our skin should be thick enough to take honest constructive criticism. Empty platitudes are boring to read and useless to someone looking to improve themselves. I'm not saying that if you're impressed by a great model build you shouldn't say so, I'm just saying if someone post their build in the "critiques" forum they deserve your honest opinion. Plus, it exposes other interested readers to your subject knowledge (right or wrong). ;)

My thoughts exactly..... :thumbsup:

If the builder has posted photos on 'Critique Corner' - then he/she is inviting the other members to critique the model.

I should be done in a constructive, helpful way - but 'Amazing' and 'Wow! Great Model' on a clearly less than good model is no help to anyone.

If you don't want it critiqued, don't put it here.

FWIW - and for my own satisfaction - I just looked up 'Critique' - 'cos I wasn't 100% sure.....

'Critique' - n. Critical Essay.

'Critical' - a. Fault finding; expressing criticism....

So, it's actually worse and more harsh than I thought ........

It isn't putting up your model for others to admire and say how good it is - it's putting it here for them to find fault with :angry:

Ken

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One of the biggest misconceptions about ARC is that no critiques are allowed in the 'Critique Corner', which is false. As noted already, critiques are allowed if done in a constructive, helpful manner, without demeaning or belittling the builder. Some folks are sensitive to any form of criticism, but they have to realize that they open themselves up to it when displaying their models on a public forum.

I agree with Ken that the forum name does contradict the purpose of this forum. Maybe a new name is in order. How about 'The Display Case'? I'll get with the Steves and see about getting the forum name changed.

Cheers,

Alby

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I like the idea of the new name, "The Display Case." I also have a suggestion: Perhaps posters of their builds could explain upon which areas of their builds they would like constructive criticism? For instance, I am currently building an NMF P-51B. If I posted pictures of it, I might want some suggestions on how to make the metal finish look more realistic, as I am not entirely happy with it. If people knew what areas of the model the modeler wants to improve upon, I think there is less chance of damaged egos. Thoughts?

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I´m just hoping the field won´t open for target practise.... no better way to scare off people from the forum.

I can see how the opening statements begin with "I don´t like..... " and that´s not criticism...that´s stating an opinion that won´t have any other use for a builder other than to bring them down!

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I´m just hoping the field won´t open for target practise.... no better way to scare off people from the forum.

I can see how the opening statements begin with "I don´t like..... " and that´s not criticism...that´s stating an opinion that won´t have any other use for a builder other than to bring them down!

As a group ARC'ers are a pretty good bunch of people. If you see something that crosses the line, then please report the post.

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Come on guys, don't we all know both how to give good feedback, and how to take feedback? Most of the times I think you can "sense" when the tone is wrong. Then it's up to us to tell that person "this isn't the right way of saying it", or "be a little more humble in your tone", or things like that. This forum is by us, FOR us! We should WANT critique, at least I do. That's how I'm getting better as a builder. But taking critique the right way is almost as important! Don't think the worst of people all the time. If you sense a bad tone, PM the guy and ask him/her if it was ment that way. Maybe, just maybe, it wasn't meant as bad as it sounded, it just came out that way when he/she forgot to put a smiley next to the comment...

But, as people have stated already, things like "you've got the colors wrong!" isn't critique, that's just a way of trying to trash a persons build. Be polite, and do give critique, but in a nice manner. Shouldn't be all that hard! Or am I wrong..? Please do tell me, if you think I am. I can take it.. ;)

Most of the time I think we are just too worried about not stepping on anyones toes here, so we actually just "tag along" and praise the build, no matter how much room there is for improvement. I know I've done so a few times in the past, I'm not perfect, and I know it. :D I'm just a guy trying to build plastic models, and I do have a lot of fun while doing it! Forums like these help me improve, but without people telling me what to improve, I'd still be building kits like I was when I was 10, with tube glue all over the place and paint on the canopy's clear parts. Nowadays I don't, thanks to you guys. We all have lots and lots to learn from each other, so go ahead and teach!

Happy New Year to you all! :)

Edited by Najk
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This is an interesting topic, and I probably have a peculiar point of view on it. Usually, when I build or finish a model, I already know what's wrong with it. I post them online to share them, not because they're great. Generally, if I want specific criticism, I'll ask for it; "Is my weathering convincing?" I'm also not a rivet counter or accuracy nut, so if I build something that has accuracy issues, I'm really not that fussed. I love bashing plastic bits together, and am happy enough if the result looks good. Don't get me wrong, if I know about an issue I will often try to correct it. But I often won't either. It's a hobby, and I do it for fun, not to drive myself through the AMS cheese grater.

So, to me, pointing out obvious flaws in a model is pointless. The builder is probably already aware of them. I think you should only comment if you can offer some sound advice about how to address the issue. "I noticed that your canopy is a little fogged. Did you use CA? If so, try using [...] instead."

The accuracy/fidelity stuff is harder to judge. Some (probably most) guys really want to know this stuff. Others (like me) don't care as much. As other posters have said, it's all down to how you express it. I built a model last year and put it online, and was contacted privately by a well-known expert on the subject and was asked if I minded that he pointed out some issues. I thought that was a great way to do it. I get the knowledge and advice without the (potential) public humiliation. Of course you could argue that this approach robs everyone reading the thread of that same knowledge, so it's a hard one to call.

Just my 2 cents.

Kev

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So, to me, pointing out obvious flaws in a model is pointless. The builder is probably already aware of them. Just my 2 cents.

Kev

Wow.....there's a statement that pretty well somes it all up. :P :D

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Thanks for all the input, guys. I put together what I hope is a gentle enough critique of a very well done Hasegawa F-4G Phantom, you can look it up. I really, truly didn't want to tear down the model. But having worked on, photographed and always admired the F-4, I'd like to help anyone who's interested with details that might otherwise not be all that well known. The things I pointed out are probably things that no one who didn't have a great interest in the F-4 would know, but they jumped out at me as flaws that really didn't need to be. Or maybe I'm just pedantic...

Scott Wilson

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I think a large part of it, is knowing your target. If you're not sure of the crafter's skills, or abilities - then it's likely safe to not go overboard. If it's someone you know that may not be into the hobby for it's high-end accurate finishes - or trophie winning attempts, I think honest encouragment to keep at it - and give workable tips to help them improve (if they desire), is a good tactic. Those who profess to be into the hobby for the higher-end skills, and make attempts at pushing their own boundries - are likely interested in hearing feedback that can help them with that.

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Come on guys, don't we all know both how to give good feedback, and how to take feedback?

In a word, no. I've seen too many modellers (on the web and in real life) come out with stuff along the lines of"I only said his model was a complete waste of time effort and money, and that if that's the best he can do he may as well give up modelling. And he got offended! Honestly, some 12 year olds just can't take honest criticism."

However the right comments in the right place at the right time to the right person can be very helpful. Where I require constructive feedback, I now make sure I ask. And when I give it, I make sure I try to carefully word it. I was compared to Dan Quayle when I was a student for a reason!

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Wow.....there's a statement that pretty well somes it all up. :P :)

Yup, that pretty much nails it. 99.9% of the time not only am I aware of the problem you see, I can point out 50 others that you can't.

I've been doing this long enough that I'm comfortable with comments if someone is trying to help but not everyone else is.

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...I am really confused now. I was ready to post my latest "masterpiece" and I can see a new category for modellers that can not or they don't want or..or...or I dont know what they want to do with their finished models (...not masterpieces like mine). One think I have to say, if you go "public" get ready to take any kind of critisism, positive or negative, is up to you to accept it or discard it.

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It's straight forward guys.

If you just want to posts pics of your model and get some compliments.....use "The Display Case".

If you want to post pics and get some constructive feedback, then use "Critique Corner".

Some people want suggestions on how to improve areas of their models to become a better modeler and that is the gioal of Critique corner.

Other modellers have no interest in folks telling them how to improve things and they just want to show off their latest model.......hence "Display Case".

Both forums have very distinct purposes and cater to the different types of personalities that enjoy this hobby.

I've modified the description for the display case slightly to help things make more sense.

Sorry for the confusion. I fully expect the display case to be the more popular of the 2 forums....but at this point it is hard to tell.

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I want to be told what places I screw up on. That way I get better! It may have been something I didn't already notice and will become a learning experience. Critique is a fact of life. If no one critiqued my aircraft repair work a plane might eventually crash etc. In my experience in ARC 99% of the critiques come with a "fix" for the error. Honestly I think I will post here a lot. Good call on this forum Steve.

Curt

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