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Some Pics from Army Flight Test...


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1 hour ago, JohnEB said:

I have read the Air Force ordered a H-46,but it was probably cancelled. I

Did it get built...if so are there any photos?

Not that I'm aware of.  It's only recently that they were looking at the CH-47.  They did have some H-21's.  They dabbled in heavy lift in the early 50's with the Piasecki H-16 Transporter.  But rapidly lost interest when one of the prototypes crashed.  

 

The AF might have been involved with the procurement of the YCH-1, as they were trying to dabble in Army affairs in the '60s.  Not going to say never, but I've never heard of the AF interest in the H-46.  When I was at the Boeing factory researching the 46, it didn't come up.

 

Bryan

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8 hours ago, JohnEB said:

Did it get built...if so are there any photos?


Doesn’t sound like any XCH-49A or CH-46A where built. 
 

https://www.helis.com/database/modelorg/USAF-XH-49A-CH-46B/

 

But you have a range of numbers that could be used and possibly paint schemes used the Texas Towers.

https://usafhpa.org/texastowers/texastower.html
 

HTH

Edited by Tank
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13 hours ago, JohnEB said:

I have read the Air Force ordered a H-46,but it was probably cancelled. I

Did it get built...if so are there any photos?

@JohnEB,

Tank pointed you to my database entries on the helis.com website as well as the Texas Tower page of the AFHPA.  I interviewed several former Piasecki, then Vertol, then Boeing-Vertol engineers and employees several years ago.  I received a blueprint size chart of the actual BV-107/H-46/CH-113/Hkp4 production run by serial number.  The b&w advertisement announcing the Air Force contract shows a retouched photo of C/N #10, N6679D which B-V used for testing when c/n #1 N6671D crashed. The Air Force did contract a New York Airways BV-107/II to make demonstration flights from Otis AFB to TT#3. (See the embedded .pdf link on the Texas Tower page.)  So, if you wanted to build that particular machine, decals for an NYA BV-107/II do exist.  [Note: some engine, tail, window and interior mods will be required.]

 

Coincidentally, c/n #10, eventually went to Sweden to replace a crashed machine circa 1970. 

 

Kind regards,

Dutch

Edited by Dutch
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5 hours ago, Tank said:


Doesn’t sound like any XCH-49A or CH-46A where built. 
 

https://www.helis.com/database/modelorg/USAF-XH-49A-CH-46B/

 

But you have a range of numbers that could be used and possibly paint schemes used the Texas Towers.

https://usafhpa.org/texastowers/texastower.html
 

HTH

From what I got at the factory, the New York Airways BV-107's was also used to run out to the platforms.  they were originally going to operate the BV-107's to an from the Pan Am building but an accident with a collapse landing gear of a New York Airways S-61 stropped that cold.  When a few Pices parts rained down on the street below they permanently closed the heliport onto of the building.  The accident was May 16, 1977.  I also recall, possibly incorrectly, the Texas Towers were closed down after one turned turtle.  Today they have SBX-1 powered platforms performing an ABM defense mission.

 

Attached blow is a shot of the SBX-1 platforms.

Sbx_underway.jpg

Edited by BWDenver
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17 hours ago, BWDenver said:

From what I got at the factory, the New York Airways BV-107's was also used to run out to the platforms.  they were originally going to operate the BV-107's to an from the Pan Am building but an accident with a collapse landing gear of a New York Airways S-61 stropped that cold.  When a few Pices parts rained down on the street below they permanently closed the heliport onto of the building.  The accident was May 16, 1977.  I also recall, possibly incorrectly, the Texas Towers were closed down after one turned turtle. 

Bryan,

 

Your NYA BV-107/II statement above is almost right, but not quite.  NYA operated four BV-107/II from 1962-1971 and two KV-107/II on behalf of PanAm from 1964-1969. They sold all 107s to Columbia Helicopters, the two KV-107s in 1969 and the four BV-107s in 1971.  NYA operated S-61Ls from 1971-1979 when they filed bankruptcy. Daily flights to/from the Pan AM building were operated by BV-107s from Dec 22, 1965 to Feb 18, 1968, then by S-61Ls for only a few months (Feb - May) during 1977.  You are correct in stating that it was the S-61L accident on May 16, 1977 that totally shut down the rooftop heliport, but this was long after the BV-107s had been retired after making several runs a day for just over two years, all safely.

 

According to the Wikipedia page for New York Airways, "Scheduled flights to the top of the Pan Am Building (now MetLife Building) began in December 1965; they ended in 1968, then resumed for a few months in 1977. In April 1966 23 flights a day flew nonstop to Pan Am's terminal at JFK, scheduled 10 minutes; passengers could check in at the Pan Am Building 40 minutes before their scheduled departure out of JFK. The downtown heliport had 13 flights a day to Newark, 5 nonstops to TWA's terminal at JFK and 12 to LGA, all of which continued to JFK. (Downtown had no weekend flights.) Soon after Pan Am Building flights resumed the March 1977 Official Airline Guide (OAG) showed 48 weekday S-61 departures from there: 12 to EWR, 14 to LGA then JFK, and 22 nonstops to JFK."

 

As to the USAF Texas Tower demo flights, that is all they were. I am not sure how many flights were run, but less than ten over the course of a few days in late 1962 is my guess.  Again, JohnEB's post above with link to the Texas Tower site with linked .pdf document explains it all pretty succinctly.

 

HTH,

Dutch 

Edited by Dutch
added dates.
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7 hours ago, Dutch said:

Bryan,

 

Your NYA BV-107/II statement above is almost right, but not quite.  NYA operated four BV-107/II from 1962-1971 and two KV-107/II on behalf of PanAm from 1964-1969. They sold all 107s to Columbia Helicopters, the two KV-107s in 1969 and the four BV-107s in 1971.  NYA operated S-61Ls from 1971-1979 when they filed bankruptcy. Daily flights to/from the Pan AM building were operated by BV-107s from Dec 22, 1965 to Feb 18, 1968, then by S-61Ls for only a few months (Feb - May) during 1977.  You are correct in stating that it was the S-61L accident on May 16, 1977 that totally shut down the rooftop heliport, but this was long after the BV-107s had been retired after making several runs a day for just over two years, all safely.

 

According to the Wikipedia page for New York Airways, "Scheduled flights to the top of the Pan Am Building (now MetLife Building) began in December 1965; they ended in 1968, then resumed for a few months in 1977. In April 1966 23 flights a day flew nonstop to Pan Am's terminal at JFK, scheduled 10 minutes; passengers could check in at the Pan Am Building 40 minutes before their scheduled departure out of JFK. The downtown heliport had 13 flights a day to Newark, 5 nonstops to TWA's terminal at JFK and 12 to LGA, all of which continued to JFK. (Downtown had no weekend flights.) Soon after Pan Am Building flights resumed the March 1977 Official Airline Guide (OAG) showed 48 weekday S-61 departures from there: 12 to EWR, 14 to LGA then JFK, and 22 nonstops to JFK."

 

As to the USAF Texas Tower demo flights, that is all they were. I am not sure how many flights were run, but less than ten over the course of a few days in late 1962 is my guess.  Again, JohnEB's link to the Texas Tower site with linked .pdf document explains it all pretty succinctly.

 

HTH,

Dutch 

Thanks for the correction, I only had a minor interest in the NYA birds, then Squadron Signal pulled the plug on the effort.  Still mildly thinking about doing a color & markings book on the BV/KV-107/CH-HH-46.  Got lots of shots on them in various livery with some interesting odds and mods.  The Thai bird is interesting to say the least.  Boeing handed me a fair amonit of color shots as well as B&W on the USMC/USN birds.  I have all the versions of Canadian covered...

 

The interesting thing about the NYA BV107's was the baggage "pod" in the back of the bird.  I've seen one picture of it, although I can't imagine going back there to get a bag or load it for that matter, right between the two engines.

 

Bryan

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13 hours ago, Dutch said:

Bryan, Watch this 16 minute YouTube video. K/r, Dutch

That brings back a few memories. 

 

Like the chinook "departure w turn", pull in a bunch of power and go straight up, as you passed 100' execute a bit of a peddle turn and off we go.  

 

My last flight out of Tipton AAF, Ft Meade, we landed around 8 PM, bands of fob on the runway.  I decided I wanted to do a roll on (sim single eng), touched down at around 60 Kts and rolled to the other end of the runway on the aft wheels.  In and out of the fog.

 

Loved flying chinooks, not so much the BS that went with it.

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1 hour ago, Dutch said:

Apologies for hijacking this thread. Back to Army Test Heloes.

Maybe s bit stray afield...

 

Mayhaps someone will start on the 107/46.

 

 

The aft pylon of the 46 shows the heritage of the 107.  The aft pylon shows where they added an APU to the original structure. 

 

There is a continuous curve on the RH side, but the LH side cuts in then flares out again.  The fwd bulkhead for eh APU compartment shows the original bulkhead structure.  The aft pylon of the original 107 was not asymmetrical as pointed out, primarily for air flow from the rotor.

 

The many of the original 107’s did not have an APU.  When they added them they filled in the LH side. 

 

Attached re several of my shots and one form Nordic Wings showing the Swedish bird.  Belcher Bits made a 1/72 APU delete conversion at one time, but no longer. 

 

If you do an early 107 you’ll need to remove the “bump-out” on the LH side and fair the contour to meet the RH side, offset to the right.

040702010-07-25_13_08_25_display_42_Enlg.jpg

151948-HH-46D_PEDRO_Cherry_Point_Sm.jpg

153372-CH-46E_HMH-264_New_River_Aft_Pylon_Lf_Sm.jpg

153372-CH-46E_HMH-264_New_River_Aft_Pylon_Sm.jpg

153372-CH-46E_HMH-264_New_River_APU-Bay_Sm.jpg

154010-CH-46E_HMH-162_New_River_Aft_Pylon_Rt_Sm.jpg

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Something of interest to anyone building a YCH-1A model. 85514 and 85515 both appear to have a shorter forward rotor-mast while 85516 has the taller production-standard rotor-mast. The cabin door and pilots' side windows are also different from the later production aircraft. The fuselage window layout in 85516 is the same as the production-standard CH-46. I think the Airfix U/CH-46 is probably closest to 85516 in terms of an out-of-the-box build. Scroll down this page for a pic of 85516.

 

https://www.helis.com/database/sqd/6515th-Squadron/1960s

 

LD.

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@rotorwash,


Ray, I'd like to go back to page 11 & 12 of this thread and revisit the LOH competition circa 1965-66.  In the photos (beautiful, btw) I can't really discern the Bell YOH-4 or Hughes YOH-6 serials, but the Fairchild-Hiller YOH-5 serials are rather prominent.  I thought that each competitor provided five examples for test.  There seems to be some confusion over the serial numbers. 

 

Here is the entry from J. Baugher's US Army & USAF serial number page for 1962:

62-4202/4206        Bell YHO-4-BF Kiowa [MSN 4/8.  Redesignated YOH-4A in 1962.]  It is believed that this batch was built as 62-4201/4205.  It was discovered that the serial of the first aircraft in the batch (62-4201) clashed with a VC-140B Jetstar.  The new serials, although allocated, were never applied.

4202: An article in a 1987 edition of 'FlyPast' magazine states that this aircraft was at US Army Aviation Museum, Fort Rucker painted with serial 62-4201. 
              4204 Assigned to US Army Aviation Test Activity (USAATA), Edwards AFB, CA.  Assigned to NASA Langley Research Center, Langley Field, VA Apr 1, 1965 to Jan 23, 1973.  Registered as NASA 532.
Assigned to Mississippi Highway Patrol; registered as N51HP; sale reported Jul 6, 1990, cancelled Dec 11, 2012.
              4206 (MSN 4) is a Bell YOH-4 preserved at US Army Aviation Museum, Fort Rucker, Alabama.  Built with the serial 62-4206, this machine was reserialled as 62-4207 when it was discovered that the serial of the first aircraft in the batch, YOH-4A 62-4201, clashed with a VC-140 Jetstar. The new serials, although allocated, were never applied and the aircraft remains painted as '624206', which is technically inaccurate, but historically correct!  The original 62-4206 was a Hiller YOH-5A.  It competed in the US Army's Light Helicopter contest.  At some point, it was found that 62-4201 had been assigned twice, to a C-140 and to a Bell YOH-4 Kiowa, and some serials were changed, and the Hiller YOH-5A was reassigned 62-4207.

 

62-4207/4210        Hiller YHO-5A-UH [Redesignated YOH-5A in 1962.]
              4207 assigned to US Army Aviation Test Activity (USAATA), Edwards AFB, CA. Assigned to NASA Langley Research Center, Langley Field, VA Oct 11, 1965 to Dec 17, 1968, registered as NASA 530.  Assigned to Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD.

 

62-4211/4216        Hughes YHO-6A Cayuse [Redesignated YOH-6A in 1962.]
             4211 (MSN 73-0006) transferred to USAF Flight Dynamics Laboratory.  Last seen derelict at Grayling, MI Jul 1980.  Registered to Kirtland Community College as N17427 Oct 15, 1974.  Cancelled Mar 2, 1981.
             4212 (MSN 73-0007) first flight Feb 25, 1964.   Transferred to USAF Mar 1979.
             4213 (MSN 73-0008) in 1987 was at US Army Aviation Museum, Fort Rucker, AL
             4214 (MSN 73-0009) last reported at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, Maryland.
             4215 (MSN 73-0010) displayed at 1965 Paris Air Show.
             4216 (MSN 73-0005) registered N9699F with Hughes 369.  Transferred to US Army

 

While Baugher explains the initial serial number error of the first YHO-4 62-4201 with the last Lockheed C-140B, he totally confuses me with his explanation of shifting serial numbers to correct the issue.  

 

Rotorspot.nl serial website helps clarify things a little. While it shows the serial shift for the YHO-4 & YHO-5 it does not specify the subsequent serial shift for the YHO-6, making 62-4211 both a YOH-5 & YOH-6.

 

Bell YHO-4:                                         CN    Regis/Serial                        Status
Bell YHO-4-BF Kiowa > YOH-4-BF    4    (62-4201 ), 62-4202             cnx
Bell YHO-4-BF Kiowa > YOH-4-BF    5    (62-4202 ), 62-4203             cnx
Bell YHO-4-BF Kiowa > YOH-4-BF    6    (62-4203 ), 62-4204 , NASA 532 , N51HP    prs
Bell YHO-4-BF Kiowa > YOH-4-BF    7    (62-4204 ), 62-4205             cnx
Bell YHO-4-BF Kiowa > YOH-4-BF    8    (62-4205 ), 62-4206             prs
         

Fairchild-Hiller YHO-5:                   CN    Regis/Serial                    Status
Hiller YHO-5-UH > YOH-5A-UH    4    (62-4206 ), 62-4207 , NASA 530         cnx
Hiller YHO-5-UH > YOH-5A-UH    5    (62-4207 ), 62-4208 , N815Z, '62-4208 '    prs
Hiller YHO-5-UH > YOH-5A-UH    6    (62-4208 ), 62-4209             cnx
Hiller YHO-5-UH > YOH-5A-UH    7    (62-4209 ), 62-4210             cnx
Hiller YHO-5-UH > YOH-5A-UH    8    (62-4210 ), 62-4211             cnx

 

Hughes YHO-6:                                                               CN        Regis/Serial        Status
Hughes 369 > YHO-6A-HU Cayuse > YOH-6A-HU    430004        N9698F, 62-12624     prs
Hughes 369 > YHO-6A-HU Cayuse > YOH-6A-HU    730005        N9699F, 62-4216     cnx
Hughes YHO-6A-HU Cayuse > YOH-6A-HU    730006        62-4211 , N17427    wfu
Hughes YHO-6A-HU Cayuse > YOH-6A-HU    730007        62-4212         cnx
Hughes YHO-6A-HU Cayuse > YOH-6A-HU    730008        62-4213         prs
Hughes YHO-6A-HU Cayuse > YOH-6A-HU    730009        62-4214         cnx
Hughes YHO-6A-HU Cayuse > YOH-6A-HU    730010        62-4215         cnx

 

Another issue arises from the Rotorspot.nl serial listing.  Bell & Fairchild-Hiller furnished five machines each, while Hughes furnished six or seven? 

 

Lastly, one of the b&w FH-1100 photos on page 11 of this thread shows the removal of the aft engine cover. It appears that a civil registration is N81006?   

 

Thanks for posting these excellent photos and mini-articles.  I love it!

Kind regards,
Dutch
 

 

Edited by Dutch
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6 hours ago, Loach Driver said:

Something of interest to anyone building a YCH-1A model. 85514 and 85515 both appear to have a shorter forward rotor-mast while 85516 has the taller production-standard rotor-mast. The cabin door and pilots' side windows are also different from the later production aircraft. The fuselage window layout in 85516 is the same as the production-standard CH-46. I think the Airfix U/CH-46 is probably closest to 85516 in terms of an out-of-the-box build. Scroll down this page for a pic of 85516.

 

https://www.helis.com/database/sqd/6515th-Squadron/1960s

 

LD.

Technically what you're referring to is the FWD rotor pylon, or as we say in the Twin bladed cab under chain saw community - the "Doghouse" or "Crown", while the mast may well be "taller", it might also be they changed the transmission.

 

Also of note is the P/CP windows.  They flip up and out hinged at the top, while the production birds are spit and the window is mounted on cams that first come in then slide back on rails.  I'm not sure I would open the flip up windows at speed...

 

In the shots below you can see the FW Doghouse both closed up and opened up.  The BW shots are from the rebuild facility at Cherry Point, the color shots are from New River.  One note that might not be understood outside of the Tandem or 53 Community, the blades are color coded.  With regard to the 46, Red, Green and Yellow.  This can be seen on the aft blades of CH-46E 156477.  477 is also a "Phrog", while 4821 is a "Bull Phrog", having enlarged fuel sponsons and an external frame for an auto flotation unit.  The Marines and Navy routinely folded the blades of the 46's in order to keep the fold systems "exercised".

CH-46E_154821_BF_MCAS_NewRiver_HMM-261_EM-05_05-12-92_WO_19-03-96_SM_BWilburn.jpg

CH-46E_156477_MCAS_NewRiver_HMM-162_EH-07_05-12-92_Ai_Sm_BWilburn.jpg

CH-46E_156476_MCAS_NewRiver_HMM-162_YS-08_05-12-92_SWh_Ai_Cr_Sm_BWilburn.jpg

CH-46E_153965_Depot_CherryPt_Ai_Cr_Sm_BryanWilburn.jpg

CH-46D_154016_Depot_CherryPt_3_Ai_7-1992_Cr_Sm_BryanWilburn.jpg

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51 minutes ago, Dutch said:

@rotorwash,


Ray, I'd like to go back to page 11 & 12 of this thread and revisit the LOH competition circa 1965-66.  In the photos (beautiful, btw) I can't really discern the Bell YOH-4 or Hughes YOH-6 serials, but the Fairchild-Hiller YOH-5 serials are rather prominent.  I thought that each competitor provided five examples for test.  There seems to be some confusion over the serial numbers. 

 

Here is the entry from J. Baugher's US Army & USAF serial number page for 1962:

62-4202/4206        Bell YHO-4-BF Kiowa [MSN 4/8.  Redesignated YOH-4A in 1962.]  It is believed that this batch was built as 62-4201/4205.  It was discovered that the serial of the first aircraft in the batch (62-4201) clashed with a VC-140B Jetstar.  The new serials, although allocated, were never applied.

4202: An article in a 1987 edition of 'FlyPast' magazine states that this aircraft was at US Army Aviation Museum, Fort Rucker painted with serial 62-4201. 
              4204 Assigned to US Army Aviation Test Activity (USAATA), Edwards AFB, CA.  Assigned to NASA Langley Research Center, Langley Field, VA Apr 1, 1965 to Jan 23, 1973.  Registered as NASA 532.
Assigned to Mississippi Highway Patrol; registered as N51HP; sale reported Jul 6, 1990, cancelled Dec 11, 2012.
              4206 (MSN 4) is a Bell YOH-4 preserved at US Army Aviation Museum, Fort Rucker, Alabama.  Built with the serial 62-4206, this machine was reserialled as 62-4207 when it was discovered that the serial of the first aircraft in the batch, YOH-4A 62-4201, clashed with a VC-140 Jetstar. The new serials, although allocated, were never applied and the aircraft remains painted as '624206', which is technically inaccurate, but historically correct!  The original 62-4206 was a Hiller YOH-5A.  It competed in the US Army's Light Helicopter contest.  At some point, it was found that 62-4201 had been assigned twice, to a C-140 and to a Bell YOH-4 Kiowa, and some serials were changed, and the Hiller YOH-5A was reassigned 62-4207.

 

62-4207/4210        Hiller YHO-5A-UH [Redesignated YOH-5A in 1962.]
              4207 assigned to US Army Aviation Test Activity (USAATA), Edwards AFB, CA. Assigned to NASA Langley Research Center, Langley Field, VA Oct 11, 1965 to Dec 17, 1968, registered as NASA 530.  Assigned to Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD.

 

62-4211/4216        Hughes YHO-6A Cayuse [Redesignated YOH-6A in 1962.]
             4211 (MSN 73-0006) transferred to USAF Flight Dynamics Laboratory.  Last seen derelict at Grayling, MI Jul 1980.  Registered to Kirtland Community College as N17427 Oct 15, 1974.  Cancelled Mar 2, 1981.
             4212 (MSN 73-0007) first flight Feb 25, 1964.   Transferred to USAF Mar 1979.
             4213 (MSN 73-0008) in 1987 was at US Army Aviation Museum, Fort Rucker, AL
             4214 (MSN 73-0009) last reported at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, Maryland.
             4215 (MSN 73-0010) displayed at 1965 Paris Air Show.
             4216 (MSN 73-0005) registered N9699F with Hughes 369.  Transferred to US Army

 

While Baugher explains the initial serial number error of the first YHO-4 62-4201 with the last Lockheed C-140B, he totally confuses me with his explanation of shifting serial numbers to correct the issue.  

 

Rotorspot.nl serial website helps clarify things a little. While it shows the serial shift for the YHO-4 & YHO-5 it does not specify the subsequent serial shift for the YHO-6.

 

Bell YHO-4:                                         CN    Regis/Serial                        Status
Bell YHO-4-BF Kiowa > YOH-4-BF    4    (62-4201 ), 62-4202             cnx
Bell YHO-4-BF Kiowa > YOH-4-BF    5    (62-4202 ), 62-4203             cnx
Bell YHO-4-BF Kiowa > YOH-4-BF    6    (62-4203 ), 62-4204 , NASA 532 , N51HP    prs
Bell YHO-4-BF Kiowa > YOH-4-BF    7    (62-4204 ), 62-4205             cnx
Bell YHO-4-BF Kiowa > YOH-4-BF    8    (62-4205 ), 62-4206             prs
         

Fairchild-Hiller YHO-5:                   CN    Regis/Serial                    Status
Hiller YHO-5-UH > YOH-5A-UH    4    (62-4206 ), 62-4207 , NASA 530         cnx
Hiller YHO-5-UH > YOH-5A-UH    5    (62-4207 ), 62-4208 , N815Z, '62-4208 '    prs
Hiller YHO-5-UH > YOH-5A-UH    6    (62-4208 ), 62-4209             cnx
Hiller YHO-5-UH > YOH-5A-UH    7    (62-4209 ), 62-4210             cnx
Hiller YHO-5-UH > YOH-5A-UH    8    (62-4210 ), 62-4211             cnx

 

Hughes YHO-6:                                                               CN        Regis/Serial        Status
Hughes 369 > YHO-6A-HU Cayuse > YOH-6A-HU    430004        N9698F, 62-12624     prs
Hughes 369 > YHO-6A-HU Cayuse > YOH-6A-HU    730005        N9699F, 62-4216     cnx
Hughes YHO-6A-HU Cayuse > YOH-6A-HU    730006        62-4211 , N17427    wfu
Hughes YHO-6A-HU Cayuse > YOH-6A-HU    730007        62-4212         cnx
Hughes YHO-6A-HU Cayuse > YOH-6A-HU    730008        62-4213         prs
Hughes YHO-6A-HU Cayuse > YOH-6A-HU    730009        62-4214         cnx
Hughes YHO-6A-HU Cayuse > YOH-6A-HU    730010        62-4215         cnx

 

Another issue arises from the Rotorspot.nl serial listing.  Bell & Fairchild-Hiller furnished five machines each, while Hughes furnished six or seven? 

 

Lastly, one of the b&w FH-1100 photos on page 11 of this thread shows the removal of the aft engine cover. It appears that a civil registration is N81006?   

 

Thanks for posting these excellent photos and mini-articles.  I love it!

Kind regards,
Dutch
 

 

The discrepancy of the N Number on the YOH-5 on pg. 11 is likely that the competition birds were required to be "certified" by the FAA.  N81006 was the lead AC and delivered to the Army under "civil registration", later changed to military.  First flight of the FH-1100 was on 26/1/1963.  The Military serial No. first two digits refers to the "contract year" rather than the delivered year.

 

If you're lucy enough to have a copy of the US Army "Gold Book" you can see when the bird was actually delved.  For example, OH-58A 68-16690 was delivered in 05/1969.  The contract date vs delivery date often lags by a year.  

 

The Army tends to make a mess of serial No.'s.  The OH-58A's went from 68-16687 to 69-16379, then 70-15040 - 70-15649.  The OH-58D Serial No. are simply a mess...

 

Bryan

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Bryan, 

 

Thanks for the CH-46 photos.  Always good to have detail shots.  I am well aware of differences between YHC-1A/BV-107 and early/late modified Phrogs, including Bull Phrogs as I spent two tours with the wing in my 21 year voluntary sentence at hard labor.

 

Back to the YHO competition.

 

The first b&w photo of the FH-1100 on page 11 of this thread is clearly a press release photo as the serial is 1100, meant to emphasize the model type.

 

Actually, N81006 was assigned to FH-1100 cn#2 by the FAA. The cowling has YOH5A stencilled on it in white and ARMY appears on the fuselage side in yellow.  I do not think that it was one of the aircraft handed over to the Army for the evaluation as those were all clearly marked with large serials.  I think that it was purely a demonstrator, perhaps to show ease of maintenance with cowling removal techniques.  rotorspot.nl lists the complete FH-1100 construction list with all 259 examples built.

 

Kind regards,

Dutch

Edited by Dutch
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Dutch, I'm fairly assured you know the differences on the YHC-1A/BV-107 and the upgrades to the CH-46's. 

 

It might be a tad presumptuous to think my post are directed soley at you.. 

 

There might be a few folks out there that don't have access to the detail shots on the 46's or the fact that in the 90's the were progressing with a series of upgrades to the 46 fleet.  DCUP to SR&M when the USN chickened out on the Dynamic Component Upgrade Program...

 

Attached is a listing of the "Family Tree" for the BV-107.   Just got my flatbed scanner back from the repair shop...

 

Note the little extension on the base of the aft pylon, which is an APU, and the models that (at least) initially lacked an APU.

 

cheers!BV-107_H-46_Family_Tree_Ai_Sm.thumb.jpg.4016d00ed3d036fb4a1fa9de9b17a9f0.jpg

Edited by BWDenver
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On 3/1/2023 at 11:51 AM, Loach Driver said:

 Thanks for the colour tips. I messed around with the pic for a minute and came up with this version of it. Not fully correct but a bit closer to the real colour of the helicopter than the first version of this pic. 

 

275659737_7756223657736292_8925621891328758800_n c

 

LD.

LD,

 

By any chance do you have any idea what the two tubular units are, on on the aft fuselage, one on top of the flight control fairing?  They appear to be solid with a dome like end...

 

Bryan

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On 4/4/2023 at 3:01 AM, BWDenver said:

LD,

 

By any chance do you have any idea what the two tubular units are, on on the aft fuselage, one on top of the flight control fairing?  They appear to be solid with a dome like end...

 

Bryan

 

I think they are part of the High Frequency radio system. At least the long one under the tailboom is. I am not sure if the one on top of the tail fin is too. I'd imagine that is still some kind of radio antenna though. 

 

LD. 

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2 hours ago, Loach Driver said:

 

I think they are part of the High Frequency radio system. At least the long one under the tailboom is. I am not sure if the one on top of the tail fin is too. I'd imagine that is still some kind of radio antenna though. 

 

LD. 

Both upper and lower objects are the same.  The only thing I can imagine is some sort of PWS (Proximity Warning System) similar to that equipment installed in the birds at Rucker.  Always fun when you were IMC and it lit up...

 

BW

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Bull Phrog, 153960 CH-46E HMM-365 YM-00 New River NC 5-13-1992

 

For those of you who don’t know what a “Bull Phrog” is, in the late 80’s/early 90’s the USN/USMC decided that the power off capabilities of the CH-46 were somewhat lacking.  If you pulled the poser off on the water you might end up swimming.  I’ve been through the dunker at NAS Norfolk, not a lot of fun! 

 

On flat dead calm seas the 46 could float power off, but then again, you rarely get dead calm flat seas on the ocean.  The BV-107’s of the Swedish AF/Nav had larger “tip” tanks on the sponsons, and the KV-107’s had even bigger tip tanks.

 

Stability, or lack thereof, coupled with the short legs of the 46 necessitated either an Aux tank inside, or more fuel on the outside.  The sponson fuel cells were greatly enlarged.  The bolt on flotation system was designed to refloat the bird if it went under.   

 

The larger sponsons gave it the Bull Phrog look.  My shot taken at New River NC in may of 1992.  A study I have on the Lightweight emergency floatation system dates to 1981, but I don’t have an install date.  A giveaway is the smooth surface on the sponson, and a down pointing " E" attaching frame.  Or of course the bag it's self as in this shot.  Although not all birds with the flotation system, have extended tanks...

 

 

Usable fuel in the 46E tanks was 177.6 gal, 188.9 for the 46D, only the fwd half of the sponson is made up of a fuel cell.  the 1998 NATOPS I have on the 46E does not indicate the extended fuel system

.  

 

My shot taken at New River NC in may of 1992.

153960_CH-46E_HMM-365_YM-00_New_River_5-13-1992_Ai_Edit_crop_Sm.jpg

Edited by BWDenver
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On 4/12/2023 at 4:22 PM, BWDenver said:

The larger sponsons gave it the Bull Phrog look.  My shot taken at New River NC in may of 1992.  A study I have on the Lightweight emergency floatation system dates to 1981, but I don’t have an install date.  A giveaway is the smooth surface on the sponson, and a down pointing " E" attaching frame.  Or of course the bag it's self as in this shot.  Although not all birds with the flotation system, have extended tanks...


15 May 90 

Fuel System Kit, Increased Capacity Stubwing, CH-46E SR&M (ECP 537)

15 Aug 90

 

2 Jan 91

Helicopter Emergency Flotation System, Installation (ECP H-46-544)
1 May 91

 

HTH

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Bryan,

Excellent photo.  In the foreground, 153960 shows the wheel/fuel sponson extended forward to just under the third cabin window, hence a true Bull Phrog.  On the CH-46E in the background, the sponson only extends to half way between the third and fourth cabin window, hence NOT a Bull Phrog, but still an E will all the other rotor, hydraulics  and avionics upgrades at the time.  Not all E's were converted to Bull Phrogs at NADEP Cherry Point.  Not sure why. Maybe a funding issue. 

K/r,

Dutch    

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