arkhunter2002 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Another "I think I heard this somewhere" but I think they the laser detectors (or the mounts), but were moved because of the frequent removal of the doors. And there's some nice green MH-60K's here, however none have that box on the door... Take care, Austin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Another "I think I heard this somewhere" but I think they the laser detectors (or the mounts), but were moved because of the frequent removal of the doors. Take care, Austin Austin, Sounds good to me. I should know better than to talk about Hawks. I'm so clearly out of my element! Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arkhunter2002 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 You're not out of your lane... I'm an amateur too :thumbsup:/> Here's some more interesting stuff since I've been digging around... First is from the Sikorsky archives. Shows some interesting stuff (pic from there) Second is a report on joint shipboard helo ops... The prioritized, primary rotorcraft-ship test pairs selected for test and evaluation over the life of the program include U/MH-60L with a LHA, A/MH-6 with a LHD, MH-60K with a CVN, A/MH-6 with a CG, MH-47E with a LHA, MH-47E with a CVN, AH-64D with a LHD, AH-64D with a CVN, H-58D with a CG, and H-47D with a CVN. Couldn't tell you what the LHA/LHD/CVN/CG mean... I'm pretty sure CVN is a carrier though... Take care, Austin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pete Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 LHA=Landing Helicopter Assault, meaning the Tarawa (and future America) class amphibious assault ships LHD=Landing Helicopter Dock, ships like the Wasp class amphibious assault ships CVN=Nuclear powered carrier CG=Guided Missile Cruiser Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EDWMatt Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 I'm still scanning 60 stuff for a BIG post later. In the meantime, here are a few more of the MH-60K. Anybody know what the black bumps on the roof right behind where the ALQ-144 would go are? Ray And just for fun, one last EH-60 pic: Okay, I'm back. Had a minor disaster at my house (broken water pipe) that I've been dealing with Nice shots. That last one is the YEH-60 again, on the ramp at Edwards. For the life of me, however, I can't remember that mechanics name. The aircraft has just finished, or is being prepared for a level flight performance test. The mechanic is mounting the manometer gage used to precisely measure how much fuel is in the tanks. We would initially calibrate the fuel cells. The manometer was connected to the drain valves. We would add fuel, 5 gal at a time from calibrated fuel cans, then read the reading in inches on the manometer. As you might guess, this took all day on something like a Blackhawk. Once calibrated, when the manometer was attached, you knew how much fuel was in the tank by the number of inches shown on the manometer. Knowing the exact weight of the helo at the beginning and end of a performance flight, which meant knowing the precise amount of fuel on board. You'll notice the jack under the tail - the helo had to be level when reading the manometer. BTW, if you look closely at the aircraft behind the YEH-60, you'll notice it's a Cobra Surrogate Trainer. Nice MH pics, At least a couple are at Edwards. Those are satcom antennas on the upper aft rotor cowl. One was INMARSAT, I don't remember what the other one was. And I think Austin's correct. I remember the 'boxes' on the door being mounts for laser detectors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EDWMatt Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 You're not out of your lane... I'm an amateur too :thumbsup:/>/> Here's some more interesting stuff since I've been digging around... First is from the Sikorsky archives. Shows some interesting stuff (pic from there) Second is a report on joint shipboard helo ops... Couldn't tell you what the LHA/LHD/CVN/CG mean... I'm pretty sure CVN is a carrier though... Take care, Austin Ah, you found the shipboard testing stuff, Austin. AQTD did a fair amount of that testing. In fact, I was involved with the OH-58D tests on the Guided Missile Cruiser. Spent about a week off shore from San Diego doing that testing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Okay, I'm back. Had a minor disaster at my house (broken water pipe) that I've been dealing with Nice shots. That last one is the YEH-60 again, on the ramp at Edwards. For the life of me, however, I can't remember that mechanics name. The aircraft has just finished, or is being prepared for a level flight performance test. The mechanic is mounting the manometer gage used to precisely measure how much fuel is in the tanks. We would initially calibrate the fuel cells. The manometer was connected to the drain valves. We would add fuel, 5 gal at a time from calibrated fuel cans, then read the reading in inches on the manometer. As you might guess, this took all day on something like a Blackhawk. Once calibrated, when the manometer was attached, you knew how much fuel was in the tank by the number of inches shown on the manometer. Knowing the exact weight of the helo at the beginning and end of a performance flight, which meant knowing the precise amount of fuel on board. You'll notice the jack under the tail - the helo had to be level when reading the manometer. BTW, if you look closely at the aircraft behind the YEH-60, you'll notice it's a Cobra Surrogate Trainer. Nice MH pics, At least a couple are at Edwards. Those are satcom antennas on the upper aft rotor cowl. One was INMARSAT, I don't remember what the other one was. And I think Austin's correct. I remember the 'boxes' on the door being mounts for laser detectors. Matt, Sorry to hear about the broken water pipe. Thanks for all the info! Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EDWMatt Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 Matt, Sorry to hear about the broken water pipe. Thanks for all the info! Ray Thanks Ray. Came home from my IPMS club meeting to find an inch of water in my living room. At least my kit stash and electronics survived, but the pipe was right over my bookcase, so I lost some of my reference books (including my copy of "Loach"). Sigh, sometimes I don't think I can catch a break... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Hi Matt. Hopefully this is the end of your run of bad fortune. You deserve a change of luck, that's for sure. LD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arkhunter2002 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 7 EH-60 pics here, new to me, possibly new to you: http://www.planepictures.net/netsearch4.cgi?stype=actype&srng=2&srch=Sikorsky+EH-60A+Blackhawk Take care, Austin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 7 EH-60 pics here, new to me, possibly new to you: http://www.planepictures.net/netsearch4.cgi?stype=actype&srng=2&srch=Sikorsky+EH-60A+Blackhawk Take care, Austin Nice find, Austin! Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JakubJakepilot Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Great find buddy !!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EDWMatt Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 Okay, I've kind of have things under control at the house... Sometimes I wonder what I've done to PO the universe to deserve this string of bad luck. Hope this is the end of it. Nice find on the EH pics, Austin. EH's are interesting aircraft. They are mainly a tactical battlefield asset, as opposed to the RC-12's, which had a bit more strategic focus. I had the opportunity to work with the mission equipment on one of my EH tests. The EH has two components- a SIGINT side with a direction-finding capability (the dipole antennas) and a communications disruption side. The comm disruption side is actually a piece of ground equipment, usually carried in a Humvee or Bradley! I had to get special permission from the Western Area Frequency Coordinator to operate the jammer during testing. The SIGINT side has a big plasma display and a processing computer. We had the computer fail during testing and I was quite entertained to discover that the large, expensive hardened computer was really a 64K processor - hardly state-of-the-art even back in '89. It was programmed with a old punched paper tape reader! Okay how about one more H-60 picture? Yes, it does say "NAVY" on the side, but this helo was part of an Army test project. This is the test SH-60B from Patuxant River that I flew two flights in as part of the T700 digital engine controller (DEC) testing. The T700 is a true product of the 1970's and initially had a nascent form of electronic engine control, using an analog supervisory control to fine tune the operation of the normal hydromechanical unit (HMU). This was the first step toward the FADEC's of today. With the upgraded -701C version, General Electric introduced a fully digital replacement for the analog controller. The DEC was to be more reliable and easier to upgrade than the analog unit and was supposed to indistinguishable in operation. Initial testing on the UH-60L showed this to be true, but when the -701C with the DEC was installed in the AH-64, big problems surfaced. Engine response became erratic, manifested by large rotor speed droop (severe enough to drop the generators off line), huge torque spikes (causing overtorques), and, as helicopter flying qualities are directly linked to engine response, a degradation of handling qualities. Thus began a nearly 4 year effort to find as satisfactory solution to allow integration of the -701C in the Apache. Why did the DEC behave normally in the UH-60 but not the AH-64? The answer was in rotor system inertia. The UH-60 has a high inertia system, so the engine response does not have to be as crisp, the rotor inertia absorbing transients. The Apache rotor system has much lower inertia, to the engine control system must be much more responsive. Eventually, over 36 different combinations of DEC software, HMU configuration (the DEC was found to behave differently with HMU's from different manufacturers, with the Woodward HMU on the -701C performing worse), and power demand spindle rigging configurations being tested before a satisfactory configuration was arrived at. It took a combination of GE, Army and McDonnell Douglas engineers to finally come up with the winning software config. It also led to some humorous moments, such as "Chevy Engine Test" (with the "Chevy" represented by the Chevy 'bowtie' symbol) being painted on the side of one of the test Apaches at McDonnell Douglas to tweak the GE project manager. Wish I had a pic of that helo. Once a successful combination had been found for the Apache, it had to be tested on the H-60 to ensure it was still satisfactory before it was put into production. Our instrumented UH-60L was tied up with another project, but the Navy was testing the -401C in preparation for fielding in the SH-60 (the -401C is essentially the same as the -701C, the primary difference being the substitution of more corrosion resistant materials). An agreement was reached to evaluate the new DEC software on the Navy test aircraft, so myself, a test pilot and the AVSCOM propulsion engineer traveled to Pax. We flew two test flights with the Navy, proving that the new software was indeed satisfactory in the H-60 also. To get authorization to fly on the Navy helo, I had to go through 'dunker' training for water survival. They put you in a simulated helicopter cabin, in flight gear. The cabin rides down a set of rails into a water tank, then flips upside down. You have to extricate yourself. They have safety divers in place, in case you have trouble. I did okay, but it certainly was disorienting! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Matt, Glad to have you back. Thanks for all the info on the SH-60. I wonder if you would mind giving us the full name of the systems the first time you use them. I have to say that for the acronym illiterate like me, I get lost quick. Here are some SH-60 pics I scanned from the test archives a while back. I had no clue they could be Army related, but I assume it is the same or similar test to what you mentioned above. Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EDWMatt Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 Thought I did give all the acronym defs, Ray, but I see I missed FADEC. Guess I thought that was a common enough term. You know what they say about 'assuming' things :lol: So, here's the secret decoder ring again: DEC = Digital Engine Control (or Controller). HMU = Hydromechanical Unit. FADEC = Full Authority Digital Engine Control. Great SH-60 shots! The SH-60 is performing artificial icing tests during the 1984 Duluth Icing season (I was there!) I totally forgot the SH-60B was part of that season. They came out from Pax, and were there for only a brief portion, which is why they aren't in my pictures from that season. We used to refer to the SH-60 as the 'Sea Pig' (since the UH-60 was the 'Black Hog'). Sadly, that particular SH-60B crashed into the sea one or two years later while performing a low-altitude, high-speed (relatively) fly-by of a surface vessel, killing everyone on board. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) Thought I did give all the acronym defs, Ray, but I see I missed FADEC. Guess I thought that was a common enough term. You know what they say about 'assuming' things :lol:/>/> So, here's the secret decoder ring again: DEC = Digital Engine Control (or Controller). HMU = Hydromechanical Unit. FADEC = Full Authority Digital Engine Control. Great SH-60 shots! The SH-60 is performing artificial icing tests during the 1984 Duluth Icing season (I was there!) I totally forgot the SH-60B was part of that season. They came out from Pax, and were there for only a brief portion, which is why they aren't in my pictures from that season. We used to refer to the SH-60 as the 'Sea Pig' (since the UH-60 was the 'Black Hog'). Sadly, that particular SH-60B crashed into the sea one or two years later while performing a low-altitude, high-speed (relatively) fly-by of a surface vessel, killing everyone on board. I'm just stupid. Wasn't paying enough attention when I read it the first time. Thanks for indulging me again though! Thanks for the info on the SH-60 pics. I figured you were there somewhere. Ray Edited February 7, 2013 by rotorwash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Sadly, that particular SH-60B crashed into the sea one or two years later while performing a low-altitude, high-speed (relatively) fly-by of a surface vessel, killing everyone on board. I think I saw a safety poster that included a picture of the helo just as it hit water, with the legend "You can only tie for the lowest buzz job" or something of that sort. I always wondered what happened to the crew, sad that they all were killed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Since we are talking Bell 309 on the Blackhawk/Black Hawk thread, I figured I'd post some more pics here as well. As I mentioned there, these were taken i 1973 at Ft. Hood and show the only known test flights with the large stub wings installed. Enjoy. Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 With all the interest in the latest Hawks, I thought maybe I'd go a litle retro and post some Flight Test pics of one of the earliest YUH-60's. I hope you Hawk guys like em. Ray I believe these last two shots are of the original prototype. Check the super short rotor mast, weird V-tail, and unique forward cowling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JakubJakepilot Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Hi, opening the question about Blackhawk pylons. We know there are (were ?) 3 types: External Stores Support System (ESSS) - which is the most common stub wing, with two stations per side. They are multi-purpose, plumbed for fuel and also have wiring to support weapons. Early Blackhawks (I think until the '3rd year buy') did not have what are called the 'fixed provisions' , or the mounts for the ESSS. We called the ESSS the 'Long Wings' External Tank System (ETS) - These are the gull-shaped wings with one station per side that you see on the Special Operations Blackhawks. The were originally developed for the HH-60D to raise the tanks up higher and improve the line of fire for the gunners from the gunners windows. Originally they were for fuel tanks only, but I suspect that on the MH-60's they are wired for weapons. We called the ETS the 'Gull Wings' or 'High Wings' Horizontal Stores Support (HSS) - These are the stub wings that look like the ESSS, but with only a single station on each side. They were originally set up for fuel tanks only and could only mount the 230-gal tanks, not the 450's. I've also seen them used to mount weapons on Special Ops MH-60L's They were purpose built, not cut-down ESSS. I don't think too many of these systems were procured, and I don't see the system mentioned in the later versions of the UH-60 Flight Manual. The were used to carry tanks on EH-60's in Desert Storm - I did an extensive calibration project to calibrate the EH-60's direction finding system when the tanks and wings installed. We called the HSS the "Short Wings". BUT, what about those pylons ??? South Korea SAR/Medevac Is this the 4th type of pylons ???? Thanks Jakub Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I don't know if this web link has been added to this thread before but if you are interested in flight testing, enter your aircraft of choice into this and it will pull up countless interesting test reports. Some reports are poor quality copies while others are of very good quality. Many reports contain photos and drawings. Ray and others have posted photos of many of the test helicopters here and if you dig long enough, you'll find the test reports that correspond with many of the photos. This website is also being constantly updated so it is worth checking again every once in a while. http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/search/tr/tr.html LD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Here are a few links that might be of use to those of us here into prototypes and test helicopters. If you like researching the development of the helicopter, particularly from the start of the turbine era, these sites are full of useful info and it will take a considerable amount of time to get through each site and find all the info that is available on your favorite type. First up is the Army Aviation magazine archive. Actually, it is probably the least useful of all links I will post here but it is still worth a look. It is only from the late-1980's issues onwards that the magazine seems to feature any kind of in-depth articles. http://www.armyaviationmagazine.com/index.php/archive The "Flight Global" archive is pretty in-depth and a good place to start for any research into helicopters. https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/ The "Aviation Week" magazine archive has only appeared on-line this year but has lots of good stuff. You have to register with Aviation Week but that is free. Once you do, you get full access to the archive. http://archive.aviationweek.com/ One archive that isn't free but contains some really in-depth articles on the american helicopter industry is the "American Helicopter Society" website. One of the benefits of membership is full access to the "Vertiflite" magazine archive. This archive is fairly extensive and there are some very rare articles in there containing info that you probably can't find anywhere else on the development and flight-testing of American helicopters. It costs $80 to sign up but if you have a passion for rotary-wing flight testing, it is a great resource and is well worth the price. https://vtol.org/ LD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) 50 years ago today, around this time, Hughes Test Pilot Robert Ferry was in the air in his Hughes YOH-6A prototype, 62-4213, as he set the world record for the longest distance flown in a rotorcraft, non-stop and un-refuelled. He flew for 15 hours and 8 minutes and covered 2,213.8 miles as he flew between Culver City, California and Ormond Beach, Florida. The record still stands to this day! In theory, a helicopter as small as the OH-6 should come nowhere near setting such a record but the radical design of the OH-6 has made it ideally suited to these type of flights. Clean aerodynamics, a fuel-efficient engine, a favourable power-to-weight ratio and the associated favourable fuel fraction (the weight of the fuel carried as a percentage of the total take-off weight) all contribute to an exceptional range. One of the Hughes engineers calculated that the only way to beat the current record was if someone could come up with a lighter helicopter capable of carrying a greater amount of fuel! Hughes engineers felt they could have constructed the OH-6A to be 200 pounds lighter but the Army went with the design that ultimately went into production. A friend of mine who has visited the Army Aviation Museum and examined 62-4213 noted that the construction of -4213 was lighter than that of a production OH-6A. This lightweight construction probably contributed to this amazing record. A couple of attempts to break this record have been announced in the past but they never came to fruition. Steve Fossett was going to use a modified BO-105 and someone else was going to use a Sikorsky S-76. Maybe they crunched the numbers and realized they needed a different helicopter! It looks like the only way at the moment to beat this record would be to strip-down and lighten a Hughes 500C or OH-6A and try to increase the fuel fraction. http://www.verticalmag.com/news/article/30255 LD. Edit; Have a bit of fun with this distance calculator. See how far you can fly from your home town to a point 2,213 miles away. I came up with this route, which is only 2,187 miles, well inside the range of 62-4213! Granted, the headwinds to Canada would probably use up plenty of the remaining fuel! http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/distanceresult.html?p1=78&p2=1137 Edited April 7, 2016 by Loach Driver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anvil6 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 With all the interest in the latest Hawks, I thought maybe I'd go a litle retro and post some Flight Test pics of one of the earliest YUH-60's. I hope you Hawk guys like em. Ray I believe these last two shots are of the original prototype. Check the super short rotor mast, weird V-tail, and unique forward cowling. These are really cool, thanks for sharing! I will never get bored of looking at Black Hawks! -Ramon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I don't know about Ramon, but when I went to school at Ft. Eustis, one of the helicopters in the school maintenance hangars was the one in the top pics. At least as far as I remember. 1985 was a long time ago! Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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