USN Carrier catapult

[GMK]

Guys,

Is it a plausible depiction to have an jet (eg, Hornet of some type) tied down, wings folded, RBF tags & plugs etc fitted, but on (connected or no) the catapult? Not astride, but on it?

Thanks,

Greg

[Joe Hegedus]

Guys,

Is it a plausible depiction to have an jet (eg, Hornet of some type) tied down, wings folded, RBF tags & plugs etc fitted, but on (connected or no) the catapult? Not astride, but on it?

Thanks,

Greg

Not really. Plugs and such are not, I've been told, used on the flight deck as they are FOD hazards. Also, I don't think you'd see a jet attached to a catapult that doesn't have a crew in it ready to launch.

[phantombullet]

Here's my view on this, but this was when I worked F-4 Phantoms on the flight deck. This is the Alert 5 Status, if just sitting there before flight ops...NO, RBF flags were always in place because the planes had "LIVE" ordinance on them, SW, Sparrows & such!

Since we didn't have APU's we needed power from the ship, so the power cord was hooked up to the plane, with the tow tractor/huffer hose hooked up with aircrew, plane captains, ordies, trouble shooters & Cat crew on Standby ready to launch in 5 minutes! Usually the E-2 would go first followed by the tankers & then the Phantoms would take off! Hope this answers your question!!

[Spongebob]

Never.

The actual config would depend on the alert status...7/15/30/60, but assuming you're looking for a alert 7:

- aircraft would be manned, spotted (short taxi to the cat) and have the minimal tie-downs

- power cord connected with at least the INS spun up...maybe more but cooling can be an issue

- IIRC, gear pins out for a A7, but expect seaker covers and safeties for forward-firing ordnance to be on

As a general rule, you don't go into the shuttle with wings folded. Bad things can happen from there. Even with an A7 the cat crew would shoot a no-load or two while the jet started in order to warm up the cat as the system needs to be at a certain temp for the #'s to match.

As Joe said, you won't see most plugs/covers on the flight deck except for port visits. 40 mph of wind is very common and those things blow away...also, during flight ops there will be at least 3 FOD walkdowns a day.

HTH

Spongebob

Edited January 15, 2010 by Spongebob

[Neeko]

Jets can be positioned near the catapult shuttle and tied down as "alerts", with only a plane captain nearby... Depends on how quick the alert is set up for. Here's a pic I took on the Lincoln way way back with my crappy Digital Mavica:

No plugs would be installed (pretty much standard for all the jets on the roof anyway), however essential pins would be installed.

[Reddog]

Everyone pretty much covered up but a few more notes.

For F-14's on alert 5/7 crews manned up, power applied, INS cable connected and a huffer connected and standing by. Downlocks installed and all ordnance safety pins installed. With power on the aircraft the Sidewinder nose cones would be removed. All panels closed, only six tie downs installed, P/C, 2 Ordies and 2 Trouble shooters standing by also. When word was given to launch we would start up the engines, pull the downlocks, pull the huffer/electrical/INS cables/hoses, ordies would pull the safety pins and get the bird taxing in under 90 seconds and get the first bird in the air in under 2 and half minutes. NASCAR pit crews has nothing on us.

Oh BTW, the A-7 did have the downlocks removed by all safety pins would be installed, not just the ones for the forward firing stuff.

Also, on thing, NO TOW BARS! I don't know how many "alert" sences I have seen with the tow bar still hooked to the bird. Also, as a note for those interested, once the bird is started up, the tow bars are removed. This is done to prevent it from being swung around incase the aircrew moves the nose gear or ingages nose gear steering by accident.

HTH

Reddog

[Joe Hegedus]

once the bird is started up, the tow bars are removed. This is done to prevent it from being swung around incase the aircrew moves the nose gear or ingages nose gear steering by accident.

HTH

Reddog

Yeah, I can see how having a towbar on the nose gear could be a bad thing if the steering was engaged! ouch!

[Reddog]

Yeah, I can see how having a towbar on the nose gear could be a bad thing if the steering was engaged! ouch!

It's happened, have the sore ankles to prove it.

Reddog

[Collin]

Loud Noises.

Nothing to add, but thanks for the memories of sitting behind the shuttle on ASuW alert in my S-3.

Cheers

ATIS

[DutyCat]

How about this? Alert 5 with America alongside. I took these during the 83 Med cruise, IIRC.

Edited January 16, 2010 by DutyCat

[GMK]

As Joe said, you won't see most plugs/covers on the flight deck except for port visits.

Guys,

Thank you for your input and expertise. Looks like any "alert status" is out - the covers are fitted due to appalling intakes. Guess I should've researched that one first :(

Once again, thank you all, I'm trying to optimise the display for a carrier (hence tie downs and folded wings etc). I'll fiddle around a litle more.

Greg

[Reddog]

You can put it on the roof with all the covers and everything on it, like inert weapons and say it's a static display for a port visit. Put 12 chains on it and your covered.

Reddog

[PNW_Modeler]

NASCAR pit crews has nothing on us.

I don't know about that....I betcha you have a hell of a lot more guys working on it.

When I was a chief mechanic on a FF1600 car, I could remove the body covers, have the gearbox drained of fluid, stripped, completely re-geared and lubed up and ready to go back on track in under 15 minutes without assistance.

Edited January 17, 2010 by paul.nortness

[Reddog]

We had between four and six guys depending who was part of the crew. This is how it would brake down sometimes when I was on deck.

1 Plane Captain

2 Ordies

2 Troubleshootser

Maybe on PC Trainee also

I'm not counting the cat crew, not sure how they did thier alerts and how many people it took to do it. But, keep in mind, we where changing tires on a care, we where flinging a 72,000 pound plane into the air and every system had to work as advertised.

How an alert crew would work back in my day.

If I was on deck in later years, I could fill the Ordie and a Troubleshooter since I held both quals, in the early days I did not have the troubleshooter qual so there would be two shooters. We could get the bird started,pull power cord, pull huffer hose, close up a few panels, pull all pins, break down all chains, pull chocks and get it taxi'ed to the cat in under 2 minutes tops and get it launched off the pointed end in under a minute after it taxi'ed. In all we could get the first bird off the deck in under 3 minutes and the second bird less then 30 seconds later. Each squadron would be assigned two alert bird, on station it would be (in the old days) alert 5 and an alert 15. The alert 5 means you have five minutes to get two birds in the air, whether they where the alert fighters, alert SUCAP, Alert Helo, Alert Hummer, or what. For alert 5 and alert 15's all preflight checks where done before the alerts where set and once the alert was set no maintenance was allowed on the aircraft. For alert 5's the aircrew had to be in the bird, for alert 15 they had to be in the ready room and in flight gear, for alert 30 they had to be in the ready room but not in flight gear and for alert 60 they could be in bed. For the deck crew, alert 5 had to have the crew at the jet, alert 15 the crew had to be on deck or in the shop but ready to go, alert 30, available and alert 60, who cares.

Now, how many guys are on a NASCAR pit crew and can they do more then one job during a pit stop?

Reddog

[Wayne S]

Now, how many guys are on a NASCAR pit crew and can they do more then one job during a pit stop?

Reddog

Sprint cup rules, only 7 guys over the wall, at times they will allow an 8th guy to complete other jobs like cleaning the Windshield etc. They are multi tasked, but regularly, the most fastest and consistent guy has a pacific job unless he gets hurt from getting hit, then another takes his place.

Front tire changer

Front tire carrier

Back tire changer

Back tire carrier

Jack Man

Gas Man

Gas catch can man

Fastest guys to me are in Drag racing. I watched a funny car team, tear an entire car down plus engine, then have the car back in the beams in 30 minutes from its last race when it blew up and caught fire. Next round was the Finals so they had no choice but to get her ready in 30 mins LOL.

[Lock n' Load]

Another question about cat positioning..

Can the cockpit be Open couple of minutes before being launched? or is it a norm that it MUST be closed when the aircraft begins to taxi into the cat?

[Reddog]

Once the bird is taxi'ed the canopy will remain close while on the boat, on land I have seen them taxi with the canopy open but it is rare.

For the Tomcat, the RIO will close the canopy as the pilot is starting the first engine.

Wayne,

On an alert crew, everyone multi-tasks and pitches in, I've done just about everything on an alert you could do except the Plane Captain stuff (I never got my qual for PC), no one stands around or say "that's not my job".

And NASCAR pit crews don't have to worry about getting blown over the side, sucked up the intake, getting their ankles broke when the plane taxi's over the wire and hundred of other thing up there that can kill you in a second. Also, I bet they get to go home after the race and get paid at least three times as more as someone who works on the deck. I will always have more respect for those guys who work the deck then any sports athlete no matter how hard the try to make their "job" look.

Oh, and the guys on the roof work in all weather no matter what it is, NASCAR guys are fair weather workers. When was the last time you did a pit stop in 160 degrees, -30 degrees, in the pouring rain or as the ground below you is moving up and down about 20 feet with a 40 mph wind. They have a nice stead platform to work on (solid land) and is doesn't rain on them let alone be cold. Also, do it day after day for up to 6, 7, 8 heck 11 months straight, and while only getting four hours sleep a night. Compare to what I've done being a NASCAR pit crew member is like a walk in the park and one of the safest things I've done.

Reddog

[Reddog]

Jets can be positioned near the catapult shuttle and tied down as "alerts", with only a plane captain nearby... Depends on how quick the alert is set up for. Here's a pic I took on the Lincoln way way back with my crappy Digital Mavica:

No plugs would be installed (pretty much standard for all the jets on the roof anyway), however essential pins would be installed.

I bet this is an alert 60 since you are so close to land.

Reddog

Edited January 17, 2010 by Reddog

[GMK]

Great answers so far, here are a couple more n00b questions:

is it chocks & chains? Chocks on both main U/C?

are the blast deflectors (jargon?) normally only raised before engine start/launch?

Thanks again.

Greg

[Reddog]

Great answers so far, here are a couple more n00b questions:

is it chocks & chains? Chocks on both main U/C?

are the blast deflectors (jargon?) normally only raised before engine start/launch?

Thanks again.

Greg

Chains are the tie down chain used to hold the plane in place, keeps it from sliding and rolling around when the deck it pitching.

Yes, Chock would be on both main U/C.

The JBD's (Jet Blast Defectors) would only be raised after the aircraft taxied to the cat, the plane has to taxi over the JBD's in order to get to the cat. For a normal launchs they would be raised about 30 to 20 minutes prior to the launch so they can be checked for FOD and make sure they work. For an alert launch they are normally in the down position but may be raised if the plane is spotted on the cat. Each carrier was a little different on this so you may see photos of it up and others will show it down, just depends on the time period and carrier.

Reddog