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M-113A1 Photo


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Alpha13, I've noticed that in almost all your photos, it looks like the -113s do not have side skirts. In photos I have of the 1980s, the side skirts are back. Were side skirts unpopular with M113 crews, or with the Army, in the 1970s?
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What you refer to as "skirts" are actually rubber track shrouds. The purpose of the shrouds is to make the vehicle properly float during water operations. When the shrouds were installed for water operations (i.e. fording rivers) they serve to give the vehicle buoyancy and help to propel and steer the vehicle through the water. (The shroud would actually spread out from the weight of the vehicle and the pressure of the water)

You could ford (swim) rivers without the shrouds attached but it was not recommended or advised. (There would be a big buoyancy problem) The vehicle would be nose heavy in the water even with the shrouds attached, if memory serves me correctly there would be 4 inches of freeboard at the front of the vehicle (at the drivers hatch) and 6 inches of freeboard at the rear of the vehicle when it was in the water. That plywood piece you see on the front of the vehicle in photos was actually called the "trim vane", before entering the water the driver would extend it to keep the water from entering the engine compartment and/or drivers compartment. It also helped with buoyancy in the front. If the vehicle started to fill with water you could not get out fast enough.

Most mechanized infantry units I was in never mounted the shrouds unless water operations were planned that also includes in Vietnam. Another reason they were not mounted was because they could easily be damaged if the vehicle side swiped something like a tree or if a track was thrown. Also if the shrouds were installed mud buildup between the hull and the shroud would cause problems with maintaince.

Unit SOP's required that the shrouds always be with the vehicle(s). We used to roll them up and strap them to the right rear top deck. (see photo) We would sometimes install the shrouds in garrison so they would return to the "memory" of their proper length. Folding them for long periods had a tendency to make them shrink due to the folds. They were a bear then to line up with the bolt holes on the vehicle.

The red circle in the photo shows how the shrouds were stored.

scan00791copy.jpg

Edited by Alpha13
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Interesting. I had heard from an infantryman that the M113 had fairly believable water-crossing qualities. That is, while it wouldn't handle like a fine yacht, it would legitimately travel across water obstacles with reasonable chance of making it! (By contrast, he didn't trust the Bradley to do this at all. In fact, he was rather unkind to the Bradley except to say that it might have offered better ballistic protection, in some respects.)

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Interesting. I had heard from an infantryman that the M113 had fairly believable water-crossing qualities. That is, while it wouldn't handle like a fine yacht, it would legitimately travel across water obstacles with reasonable chance of making it! (By contrast, he didn't trust the Bradley to do this at all. In fact, he was rather unkind to the Bradley except to say that it might have offered better ballistic protection, in some respects.)

The M-113 did indeed work well in water but it was very slow 3mph maximum. Weight distribution was critical, the center of gravity was just behind the TC hatch. Loading started from there and worked out. You couldn't jump up and down on it while in the water, the freeboard did not allow for much left to right tipping. I had witnessed a few of them sink, not a pleasant sight.

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Here is a grainy b&w photo that shows an M-113 with the track shrouds on to the left of the M-8 armored car. The vehicle was from C Company and the company was probably going to do some water operations. The vehicles on the track line of the other 2 rifle companies A and B did not have the shrouds mounted.

The M-8 was removed from a junk yard by the unit to restore, it was eventually restored in running condition by the battalion motor pool mechanics on their off time and used in parades.

This photo was taken on a cold rainy day at the US Seventh Army Training Area Hohenfels Germany in February 1974.

M-8acopy.jpg

All photos are the property of the poster Alpha13, from my personal collection, none are scans from books or from the Internet or else where. They are shown for the purpose for hobbyists and fans of tactical vehicles. Using them for financial gain by others is prohibited. Thanks

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Here are some more photos, the lower 2 photos shows all the equipment (tools, machinegun tripods, ground to air signal panels, etc) of the M-113, it does not include crew served weapons, commo gear (radios, antennas) and personal weapons and gear of the squad.

The photos are old and do not scan well, sorry for the lack of detail.

M-1131copy.jpg

Tools2copy.jpg

Toolscopy.jpg

All photos are the property of the poster Alpha13, from my personal collection, none are scans from books or from the Internet or else where. They are shown for the purpose for hobbyists and fans of tactical vehicles. Using them for financial gain by others is prohibited. Thanks

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Interesting that the tools were not painted to match the camouflage on the vehicle.

At what point did the Army go from white to black codes and stars?

Spring/summer of 1977 the Army officially went to black bumper markings and serial numbers. In late 75 early 76 unofficial black markings were painted on. Depended on the unit. The black stars were eliminated way before that and the white stars with white markings were only on OD vehicles and that ended in 72-73. But replacement vehicles sometimes arrived in OD with white stars and markings into the late 70's.

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scan0076copy.jpg

Now it looks like you guys were wearing old-school "pickle-suit" fatigues without any sort of flak jacket. Like the Vietnam-era infantry depicted in Dragon's First Cav set, or Tamiya's original -113. Although I think the Dragon guys were wearing jungle fatigues. Still, under the harness and gear they probably could pass for '70s USAREUR mech infantry.

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Now it looks like you guys were wearing old-school "pickle-suit" fatigues without any sort of flak jacket. Like the Vietnam-era infantry depicted in Dragon's First Cav set, or Tamiya's original -113. Although I think the Dragon guys were wearing jungle fatigues. Still, under the harness and gear they probably could pass for '70s USAREUR mech infantry.

The uniform worn in the photo was the field uniform of the day. OG-107 100% cotton fatigues, the field trousers were OG-107 100% cotton M-1952 Korean War era. A very comfortable and excellent uniform! We had flak jackets (Korean War era) but would not wear them for any training.

The only time we wore them was when we had to do "ARF" (Augmentary Reactionary Force) which consisted of a 40 man rifle platoon that responded to any emergency (terrorist, Bader Meinhoff, etc) that might want to become the new resident of a Pershing or Hawk missle site in Germany. The Army tried many different ways to get the 40 men to the site, as quick as possible (Chinook, Huey and 2 1/2 and 5 ton truck). Flight was obviously the fastest, but the Army eventually settled on trucks, most missile sites were a 2 1/2 hour drive by truck. You can figure if the site had been taken over by terrorists that the 40 men would have to assault it instead of defending it, due to the long drive.

Many times the ARF was called out and we went to the sites in all weather and all hours, most of the sites were on very steep mountains, and the 40 of us would climb up like monkeys. Grunts hate hills and mountains no matter how small. When we got to the site after many hours of humping and scaling vertical inclines that mountain goats would have trouble with, we were given a hot meal by the missile site. And then jumped on the trucks for the ride back to where we were stationed.

The web gear was M-1956 and very good. Jungle fatigues were a no-no in USAREUR in the 70's, even though it was a very comfortable and versatile uniform it was the wrong climate and the Army wanted to forget why and where it had been wore previously.

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Now it looks like you guys were wearing old-school "pickle-suit" fatigues without any sort of flak jacket. Like the Vietnam-era infantry depicted in Dragon's First Cav set, or Tamiya's original -113. Although I think the Dragon guys were wearing jungle fatigues. Still, under the harness and gear they probably could pass for '70s USAREUR mech infantry.

Looks a lot like mid 90's Canadian light infantry gear.

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In the aforementioned photo, I think I spy a Big Red One patch on a soldier's left shoulder. Perhaps not. But was the army transitioned to collar-chevrons by then? Or still wearing subdued chevrons on sleeves?

You are very observant, yes indeed it's the Big Red One, one of the best divisions the US Army ever fielded no matter where and what era, a lot of pride and history in the Big Red One. And they are still making it. Subdued rank had been on the collar for a long time then.

When the subdued unit patches came out the Big Red One petitioned Department of the Army to authorize the division to keep wearing the class A patch on fatigues, initially DA refused, but then consented after some WWII BRO veterans who were then Generals got involved. So we could wear either patch, subdued or class A on OD fatigues and on to the BDU's. The only division in the Army that could do it, until the 5th Inf Div was reactivated. We wore the red or subdued diamond.

Edited by Alpha13
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Jungle fatigues were a no-no in USAREUR in the 70's, even though it was a very comfortable and versatile uniform it was the wrong climate and the Army wanted to forget why and where it had been wore previously.

Ah, good old jungle fatigues, the best (IMHO) field uniform the army every came up with. Wore them well into the 80's until the Army finally came out with the hot weather BDU's. Pretty surprising that the army banned them in Germany. It still got hot in the summer.

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Very nice pics.! Brings back some old memories, i drove a A1 and then the A2 for the 5 years i was stationed in the 3rd ID W.Germany. We had all green vhec. with side skirts mounted. I'll have to scan some pics. some day, my PC and i also went to ODS.

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You are very observant, yes indeed it's the Big Red One, one of the best divisions the US Army ever fielded no matter where and what era, a lot of pride and history in the Big Red One. And they are still making it. Subdued rank had been on the collar for a long time then.

When the subdued unit patches came out the Big Red One petitioned Department of the Army to authorize the division to keep wearing the class A patch on fatigues, initially DA refused, but then consented after some WWII BRO veterans who were then Generals got involved. So we could wear either patch, subdued or class A on OD fatigues and on to the BDU's. The only division in the Army that could do it, until the 5th Inf Div was reactivated. We wore the red or subdued diamond.

Who were you with in the 5th? I still have a large supply of those red diamonds. My first unit was 1-40 Armor. We had one Vietnam War vet that was with 1st BDE, 5th ID in Nam. He wore the red diamond on his left shoulder and the subdued black on his right, as that is what was worn in Vietnam. When the BDUs came out the 5th had to switch to the black diamond.

Jeff

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Who were you with in the 5th? I still have a large supply of those red diamonds. My first unit was 1-40 Armor. We had one Vietnam War vet that was with 1st BDE, 5th ID in Nam. He wore the red diamond on his left shoulder and the subdued black on his right, as that is what was worn in Vietnam. When the BDUs came out the 5th had to switch to the black diamond.

Jeff

3/10 Inf, North Fort, aka Tigerland. Long before BDU's existed.

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