Helo Design proposals and mockup pics

[Sauragnmon]

There's some very interesting... and very Ugly stuff in here.

That tiltrotor attack is an intriguing idea. The SeaPache is a neat one with the radar on the mast. The YAH-63 didn't look too bad, if you gave it a few little tweaks, like modifying the tail and cleaning up a few other parts. The Howitzer Chinook is just beefy.

But that Vertol AAH... uh... I think some items that are not meant to retract, did when I saw that thing. She's got a face not even a mother could love. I thought the Long Beach's bridge tower was the epitome of ugly, damn that's a close runner.

[Cobrahistorian]

This one has always been my favorite, the Convair entry for the AAFSS competition in 1962:

[BrittMac]

Jon, are those recoiless rifles on the side of that Convair proposal?

On a different note, I got to see the ABC fly when I was a little one. I remember it being at Rucker, and I remember a runway being behind where the old Museum was. Am i going crazy in thinking there was a runway there?

Well, I remember them talking about that helo, but I didn't get a chance to mention it after seeing that proposal drawing of it a page or so ago. I want to say I saw the XV-15 fly, but I am really only sure of the ABC. That was...uh....20-25 years ago I suppose, and before my pops went to Germany. I think I was in kindergarden.

[Avus]

Now there are some very interesting concepts.

That Convair is maybe the most fascinating: looks like one of these mechas from Japanese cartoons.

But I keep wondering: what whould happen if the closing mechanisim failed in flight?

[rotorwash]

Jon, are those recoiless rifles on the side of that Convair proposal?

On a different note, I got to see the ABC fly when I was a little one. I remember it being at Rucker, and I remember a runway being behind where the old Museum was. Am i going crazy in thinking there was a runway there?

Well, I remember them talking about that helo, but I didn't get a chance to mention it after seeing that proposal drawing of it a page or so ago. I want to say I saw the XV-15 fly, but I am really only sure of the ABC. That was...uh....20-25 years ago I suppose, and before my pops went to Germany. I think I was in kindergarden.

Brandon,

This bring back any memories? XH-59

Ray

[rotorwash]

Here's a couple of AAH proposal pics of the winning design and a few of the first AH-64 mockup.

Ray

Edited January 29, 2010 by rotorwash

[BrittMac]

Brandon,

This bring back any memories? XH-59

Ray

They do indeed. I remember the paint scheme of the first pic, but the layout (turbines on the sides) of the 2nd and 3rd pic. THANKS for posting those. Made my day. Even looks like the field I remember, but much of Rucker looks like that....dang trees and white buildings lol. You don't know if that is behind where the Museum is do you?

[EDWMatt]

Nice XH-59 pics, Ray.

The hulk of the XH-59 was sitting in the junkyard at Sikorsky Main Plant in Stratford (as was the ACAP all-composite S-76 airframe) when I was there in 1990, along with some really dubious-looking, leaking 55 gallon drums. But, hey, it was Western Connecticut. On the way to the Trumball plant to see the LHX engineering mockup (a foamboard and sheetmetal affair, not the pretty fiberglass PR piece), Sikorsky test pilot Russ Stiles showed us the large clump of bushes at the Trumball tollway exit where the New York crime families liked to dump bodies...

[rotorwash]

Nice XH-59 pics, Ray.

The hulk of the XH-59 was sitting in the junkyard at Sikorsky Main Plant in Stratford (as was the ACAP all-composite S-76 airframe) when I was there in 1990, along with some really dubious-looking, leaking 55 gallon drums. But, hey, it was Western Connecticut. On the way to the Trumball plant to see the LHX engineering mockup (a foamboard and sheetmetal affair, not the pretty fiberglass PR piece), Sikorsky test pilot Russ Stiles showed us the large clump of bushes at the Trumball tollway exit where the New York crime families liked to dump bodies...

Good stuff, Matt. I am really enjoying this and the test bird thread. You said earlier:

"The first pic is a Sikorsky design (note the ABC rotor). There was another really neat variation on this design, with a big pusher ducted fan (like the X-49) on the tail. It was tiny, probably not much bigger than an OH-6. It would have been quite a little hotrod machine."

I believe that would be this one right:

Here are two more "ringtails." I'm sure you have the skinny on these.

Looks like XH-59 with a ringtail:

This last one is my personal favorite LHX concept that I have seen so far:

[Rotor_head_Dan]

That Convair design reminds me of "The Last Starfighter" .

Brandon, There is a runway about 3 blocks west SW of the current Museum. I had my car parked on it for WOCS, nothing like the WOCS 500 every Sunday.

Dan

[EDWMatt]

Good stuff, Matt. I am really enjoying this and the test bird thread. You said earlier:

"The first pic is a Sikorsky design (note the ABC rotor). There was another really neat variation on this design, with a big pusher ducted fan (like the X-49) on the tail. It was tiny, probably not much bigger than an OH-6. It would have been quite a little hotrod machine."

I believe that would be this one right:

Here are two more "ringtails." I'm sure you have the skinny on these.

Looks like XH-59 with a ringtail:

This last one is my personal favorite LHX concept that I have seen so far:

Yup, the first one's pretty similar, but it was even smaller

#2 was a "productionized" XH-59. Note the T700 engines.

The last one appears to be a Sikorsky proposal after the determined they weren't going to be able to go with a single-pilot option.

[rotorwash]

Bell's LHX proposal, the BAT (Bell Advanced Tilt rotor), as opposed to all those "un-advanced" tilt rotors out there I guess! It is interesting to me that in almost every photo of the armed LHX, it is battling the dreaded Mi-24. Apparently it was assumed that even in a far off future battlefield the Mi-24 was going to be the primary foe. That either speaks well of the Russian design or, perhaps, demonstrates the lack of forward thinking in terms of what type of upgraded rotorcraft we would face ion a future battlefield when developing this project.

Ray

[Cobrahistorian]

That Convair design reminds me of "The Last Starfighter" .

Brandon, There is a runway about 3 blocks west SW of the current Museum. I had my car parked on it for WOCS, nothing like the WOCS 500 every Sunday.

Dan

Hmmm... "Death Blossom" with recoilless rifles?

[BrittMac]

Bell's LHX proposal, the BAT (Bell Advanced Tilt rotor), as opposed to all those "un-advanced" tilt rotors out there I guess! It is interesting to me that in almost every photo of the armed LHX, it is battling the dreaded Mi-24. Apparently it was assumed that even in a far off future battlefield the Mi-24 was going to be the primary foe. That either speaks well of the Russian design or, perhaps, demonstrates the lack of forward thinking in terms of what type of upgraded rotorcraft we would face ion a future battlefield when developing this project.

Ray

The BAT looks like the adolescent child of an Osprey and a Fouga Magister. Just sayin'.

Jon, I would love to see the recoiless rifle "death blossom". It would be glorious, yet scary. On another note, I finally picked up your Cobra book. It has been a good read so far, thumbs up!

Brandon

[SteveV22FE]

The BAT looks like the adolescent child of an Osprey and a Fouga Magister. Just sayin'.

Jon, I would love to see the recoiless rifle "death blossom". It would be glorious, yet scary. On another note, I finally picked up your Cobra book. It has been a good read so far, thumbs up!

Brandon

The BAT mockup used to be at the aviation museum here in Amarillo, Tx. After the museum closed, I have no idea where it went.

[thatguy96]

Here are some from the National Air and Space Museum Archives that I photocopied and scanned today.

These first two are of the kit developed by General Electric and later supplied to Vanderpool's ACR unit. These pictures depict the pods as intended with eight 89mm rockets and two T161 machine guns. By the time the ACR recieved what has been referred to as "Kit I," they had burned all the 89mm rockets and the T161 series had been standardized as the M60. The 89mm rocket tubes were replaced with four 2.75" rocket tubes.

This picture shows the kits attached to the primary US military observation helicopters of the day, the Bell 47 series, the Hiller UH-12 series, and the Kaman K-240/K-600 series.

This next picture comes from the proposal by General Electric for the mounting of the M61 (or a modified three barrel version, which later became the M197) to the HU-1B. Bell Helicopter also contributed to this project, which was actually tested.

The next two pictures are proposals by Emerson Electric. The first is of a potential 360-degree fire suppression system for the HH-3E, utilizing the TAT-102 series armament subsystem fitted to the helicopter's rear cargo ramp. The second is a proposal for the TAT-136 on the CH-53A. This subsystem involved the installation of one turret in each of the aircraft's sponsons, each fitted with one 20mm Mk 12 cannon, 20mm M24 cannon, or 30mm XM140 cannon.

Edited April 27, 2010 by thatguy96

[grandadjohn]

Another view of the Sea Apache

[Phatsamurai]

Another view of the Sea Apache

now that would make a sweet build, hmmm just maybe.........

[Tiltrotor Fan]

Bell's LHX proposal, the BAT (Bell Advanced Tilt rotor), as opposed to all those "un-advanced" tilt rotors out there I guess! It is interesting to me that in almost every photo of the armed LHX, it is battling the dreaded Mi-24. Apparently it was assumed that even in a far off future battlefield the Mi-24 was going to be the primary foe. That either speaks well of the Russian design or, perhaps, demonstrates the lack of forward thinking in terms of what type of upgraded rotorcraft we would face ion a future battlefield when developing this project.

Ray

Ray,

I have always been a big fan of the Bell BAT design and am a rc helicopter nut as well. I have been working on a RC BAT for years and have the power system designed. However, I could never get enought documentation. Do you think you might be able to help me with any more pictures or documentation? Thanks for your time.

Steve

[Stingray24]

This one has always been my favorite, the Convair entry for the AAFSS competition in 1962:

Hi there, I have some more material regarding the Convair 49 (or "Bucket Jet"):

http://files.activeboard.com/845207?AWSAccessKeyId=1XXJBWHKN0QBQS6TGPG2&Expires=1317254400&Signature=4PMKsJnJRI3SpG8jqwG53XdmEY0%3D

http://files.activeboard.com/845210?AWSAccessKeyId=1XXJBWHKN0QBQS6TGPG2&Expires=1317254400&Signature=51qR2N7656gqmRFULvM7LfjB3PI%3D

http://files.activeboard.com/845212?AWSAccessKeyId=1XXJBWHKN0QBQS6TGPG2&Expires=1317254400&Signature=EW6byv0B6LnK5D2ig5vsp00C%2BC8%3D

http://files.activeboard.com/845214?AWSAccessKeyId=1XXJBWHKN0QBQS6TGPG2&Expires=1317254400&Signature=yExOFAI4oMpcRmxE1Fw9GJyTxDQ%3D

Plus the Convair/GE ADD (Advanced Destroyer Drone), based on the Model 49 design:

http://files.activeboard.com/845215?AWSAccessKeyId=1XXJBWHKN0QBQS6TGPG2&Expires=1317254400&Signature=0G%2BFXVz4Nu9IqmsbzMt6kSWGkkw%3D

http://files.activeboard.com/845216?AWSAccessKeyId=1XXJBWHKN0QBQS6TGPG2&Expires=1317254400&Signature=3jM3neXzTz1C%2Be17xhhQPawoS68%3D

http://stingraysrotorforum.activeboard.com/t40035031/consolidated-and-convair-projects/

[Diamondback Six]

A whole bunch of stuff here, some interesting, some wild and some just plain weird. Perchance, have you ever seen anything on never-were CH-53 variants?

Thanks for posting!

[BAM'n'IVM]

It is interesting to me that in almost every photo of the armed LHX, it is battling the dreaded Mi-24. Apparently it was assumed that even in a far off future battlefield the Mi-24 was going to be the primary foe. That either speaks well of the Russian design or, perhaps, demonstrates the lack of forward thinking in terms of what type of upgraded rotorcraft we would face ion a future battlefield when developing this project.

Ray

Possibly more along the lines of the artist trying to give the proposal an enemy that was recognizable and identifiable as Soviet/Soviet supported, and what helo says "bad guys" better than a Hind?