NASA 747 Shuttle Transporter...

[Paul Mullins]

Well, I was planning on sort of the same thing. Glue up the wing/fuselage and have two poor seams and only one really ugly one. The next step is putting the two halves of the 747 together and begin to address some of the basic shape problems that Frank (old hooker) identified. Once I get the two vehicles put together, I'll post some pictures with something to show the size.

Paul

[tnuag]

Paul,

Could you contact me of-line please on neil@aim72.co.uk

Thanks

Neil

[David Hingtgen]

Here's something to check (as in, see how your kit is, then build whichever plane is most like the kit):

H.stab root LE fairing. There aren't many left without it, but 905 definitely lacks it. Look here:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/NASA/Boeing...SCA)/0354246/M/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/NASA/Boeing...SCA)/1264210/L/

See how the root of the stab runs right into the side of the fuselage? Stab has a dead-straight LE, and makes a crisp angle where it meets the fuselage.

Now look at 911:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/NASA/Boeing...SCA)/0118115/L/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/NASA/Boeing...SCA)/0021717/L/

There's a fairing at the root of the LE that curves, blending the stab into the fuselage. Only very early 747's lack this, and many were retrofitted, so you won't find many today that lack it. My only Hasegawa 747 kits are stashed away deep and I can't get to them easily to check if they do or don't have that fairing. But if you want to get into the nitty-gritty of 747 details, that's one of the best ones, and may determine which plane you model.

::edit:: Of course, the biggest thing normally among the -100/200, is the presence of the fairings on the pylons. 911 has them, 905 doesn't. That's probably a lot harder to deal with than the little stab fairing, so actually that feature in the kit should determine which one you model.

Interesting---905 has got to be one of the very few 747s still in service that lacks both of those fairing packages. Of course, NASA is known for keeping planes "as is"---look at all their F-15s with some very "old" features.

Edited February 18, 2010 by David Hingtgen

[Paul Mullins]

David,

Thank you very much for pointing that out. The fairing is really obvious in the second photo of 911 and they really do differ from 905. I had been concentrating on the wing/root fairing and the shape of the nose. As soon as I finish wrestling with the orbiter, I plan on working to get the big fuselage together and in some type of cradle so I can start shaping and see where I need to place the connections between the two vehicles. I think the area over the flight deck windows might need some work as well. I'm still kicking around ideas about what type of body filler I want to use.

Thanks again,

Paul

[Youngtiger1]

Paul,

Thank you so much for posting these photographs. It's gives me much better idea of what is included in the package. However, what's the deal with the wing. Are you as a modeler asked to clean that and reshape/attach it? Wouldn't there be a gap after removing that blob of melted plastic?

As for the tile decals...Yes cutting edge was good but how about this...

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-72-Revell-Monogram-S...=item35a72a95f0

Tony,

My friend your photographs are priceless. I am so glad that you stopped by our thread and shared your knowledge :(

Again, to all thank you so much for you wonderful comments. Please, keep them coming.

Mike

Edited February 19, 2010 by Youngtiger1

[Youngtiger1]

Tony, I have heard that the engines between the 950 and 911 are different. From all that I have read dose not give that info for both planes. So, can you please tell us little bit about that? Thanks.

Mike

[David Hingtgen]

I've got JT9D-3A listed for 905, and JT9D-7A for 911. Those are identical AFAIK. Auxiliary air inlets in the cowl may be different/present, but I've found that to be kind of a random thing, and not associated with any particular version.

[Youngtiger1]

I've got JT9D-3A listed for 905, and JT9D-7A for 911. Those are identical AFAIK. Auxiliary air inlets in the cowl may be different/present, but I've found that to be kind of a random thing, and not associated with any particular version.

Thanks David, at least now I know even if it is a minor difference. :(

Mike

[Paul Mullins]

Mike,

I think it has to do with the size of the wing vs the size of the mould. Yeah, I get the feeling that's exactly what's gonna have to happen. Clean up the joint and glue it together. That's actually the least of the problems as I see them at the moment. There's nothing to indicate the flaps, slats and spoilers on either the top or bottom of the wing. But, I have a plan to take care of that thanks to Tony.

More later,

Paul

[Youngtiger1]

Paul,

Do you know that Draw Decals does a decal sheet for SCA in 1/72.

http://www.drawdecal.com/typesearch.htm

Mike

[Paul Mullins]

Hhhhmmmmm,

I ordered the tile decals last night. How thoughtful of Draw Decals. 1/72. Guess I'll order those as well. I already have the windows and I can paint the stripe.

Thanks for the link.

Paul

[Paul Mullins]

Draw Decals on order. Tile decals on order. Still wrestling with filler queen POS Oribiter. Anyone have an idea where to get "Columbia" Decals? Cannot seem to find anything but Discovery, Atlantis and Endeavor.

Paul

[Paul Mullins]

OK,

This is a serious question for Jenning or Dave or Tony. Do the JT9D Engines on 905 have blow in doors? Next question, can anyone show a photo of one of those engines with the thrust reverser cascades engaged? I have a wild assed idea I'm kicking around that was inspired by Franks (Old Hooker) 747 on the mirror trick.

Thanks in Advance.

Paul

[spaceflightengineer]

...and in fact for many years the 1st SCA sported the AA stripes and the non-faded natural metal skin areas of the fuselage that had the American logo- very visable until the repainted later NASA on white scheme came.

BP

American most assuredly did take delivery of the current Shuttle carrier a/c. The first one was 747-123, msn 20107, registered N9668. It was delivered to American on 29 October 1970. It was transferred to NASA in August of 1974 and re-registered N905NA. From 1970-74 it was in regular line service with American.

J

[David Hingtgen]

No blow-in doors on 905 as it is now: http://www.airliners.net/photo/NASA/Boeing...SCA)/1090669/M/

Now, that picture brings up another question---are the hot section reversers still active on this 747? The presence of a pylon fairing seems to force the hot section reversers to be deactivated (if they aren't already) but 905 lacks the fairing, and a gap for the hot-section reverser's track is quite visible. It may be deactivated and "unsealed" but NASA is the "king of old configurations" for aircraft, and if there's one JT9D-powered 747 left in the world with a functional hot section reverser---it'd be theirs.

[Youngtiger1]

Draw Decals on order. Tile decals on order. Still wrestling with filler queen POS Oribiter. Anyone have an idea where to get "Columbia" Decals? Cannot seem to find anything but Discovery, Atlantis and Endeavor.

Paul

Paul,

Have you tried the Real Space Models? They have a sheet that includes Columbia markings.

http://realspacemodels.com/html/decals.htm

BTW, please do post a review on both (Draw/tile) decal sheets when you receive them

Mike

Edited February 20, 2010 by Youngtiger1

[X-Plane Fan]

Here's a composite of the engines on both SCA's. Hope this answers some questions.

Tony

No blow-in doors on 905 as it is now: http://www.airliners.net/photo/NASA/Boeing...SCA)/1090669/M/

Now, that picture brings up another question---are the hot section reversers still active on this 747? The presence of a pylon fairing seems to force the hot section reversers to be deactivated (if they aren't already) but 905 lacks the fairing, and a gap for the hot-section reverser's track is quite visible. It may be deactivated and "unsealed" but NASA is the "king of old configurations" for aircraft, and if there's one JT9D-powered 747 left in the world with a functional hot section reverser---it'd be theirs.

[Paul Mullins]

Paul,

Have you tried the Real Space Models? They have a sheet that includes Columbia markings.

http://realspacemodels.com/html/decals.htm

BTW, please do post a review on both (Draw/tile) decal sheets when you receive them

Mike

Mike,

I saw those, but they're not available yet in 1/72. I think that they may be the only game in town. I suppose I can wait. It's not like I'm going to need them fairly soon. I'll let everyone know how the decals are and post photos when they get here.

Paul

[Paul Mullins]

Gang,

After thinking long and hard about it, I've decided to create a diorama which I have decided to title "Columbia Arriving". It will consist of the 1/72 scale AIM 747 with the Revellogram Orbiter as Columbia on board depicted just as the aircraft touches down on the runway with full flaps and spoilers deployed to put the weight on the main landing gear, but before the nose wheel comes down onto the runway surface. I realize that this is going to be a very ambitious long term project along the lines of something that Guy or Chuck would do with their F-14 projects. But I think I can do it. I will be asking many of you a great deal of questions and posting regular updates. All good wishes will be appreciated. I would like to start by thanking Frank, (Old Hooker), Mike, (Youngtiger1), Tony, (X Plane Fan), Bill, (niart17), David Hingtgen, SpaceFlightEngineer, Jennings, and last but certainly not least, Neil Gaunt for all of your kind and generous inspiration, assistance and input so far. I'll probably be leaning on you guys a lot more.

Paul

Edited February 20, 2010 by Paul Mullins

[niart17]

Wow, very ambitious to say the least. but that's what makes great builds....well great. good luck and i can't wait to see some more progress on this thing.

Bill

[Paul Mullins]

Tony,

In looking at various photos of 905 over the course of time, I've noticed that after the aircraft was painted white and the blue stripe was added over the windows, the tail itself remained a light grey color with the "wurm" logo and the number 905 below it. Then the tail was painted white with the same logo, and now the "swoosh" logo is on the tail without the aircraft number. Can you tell me when the tail was painted white? And, when the "swoosh" logo was added? As I'm mounting Columbia on the aircraft, I would like to get the correct markings for the time period involved. I'm thinking the Columbia will look as it did after it came out of the first refit at Palmdale with the extra black tiles at the top of the tail. Also, is that when the parachute housing was added at the bottom of the rudder assembly?

Thanks,

Paul

[MiG31]

So you're modeling 905/OV-102 in the 1985 timeframe, when Columbia was ferried back to KSC for the STS-61C mission? If this photo is anything to go by, it was wearing the gray tail/wurm logo in that period. It's my understanding that they didn't switch to the meatball logo variation until the mid-90s.

Also, keep note that OV-102 had a pod fairing added to the tail tip when the additional black tiles were installed. This was the Shuttle Infrared Leeside Temperature sensor, and she would wear it through STS-107.

Since you're inspired by OldHooker's recent build, are you planning a mirror diorama? If that's the case, be aware that the Orbiters in general, and Columbia in particular, have decidedly asymmetrical wing markings.

[Paul Mullins]

So you're modeling 905/OV-102 in the 1985 timeframe, when Columbia was ferried back to KSC for the STS-61C mission? If this photo is anything to go by, it was wearing the gray tail/wurm logo in that period. It's my understanding that they didn't switch to the meatball logo variation until the mid-90s.

Also, keep note that OV-102 had a pod fairing added to the tail tip when the additional black tiles were installed. This was the Shuttle Infrared Leeside Temperature sensor, and she would wear it through STS-107.

Since you're inspired by OldHooker's recent build, are you planning a mirror diorama? If that's the case, be aware that the Orbiters in general, and Columbia in particular, have decidedly asymmetrical wing markings.

That sir, is a cool picture. Right Click, Save. I was inspired by Franks dropping of the flaps and slats on his 747 models, so that's what I'm going to do with the gigantic AIM 747. I will not be using a mirror though. Please see the next post. A progress update.

Paul

[Paul Mullins]

OK,

Update time. First, a photo of the Revellogram PITA Orbiter which will eventually become Columbia. I took the picture with it sitting next to my 1/537 scale 22 inch long Starship Enterprise to give a sense of scale. The Enterprise is the "smoothie" version I purchased in 1979 when I was stationed at Andersen Air Force Base on Guam. The shuttle, because of all the sanding and filling yet to be done, is probably gonna be a "smoothie" as well. Did I mention that this shuttle kit is being a real PITA?

Since this is my first attempt at a vacuform kit, I decided to start with something fairly small. So I chose to start on the engines. As you can see, theres some cutting of leftover plastic from the moulding process that needs to be done.

The next photo shows the result after a fair bit of cutting, sanding, swearing, and supergluing my fingers together. (The front of the engine is resin).

As we all probably know, the JT9D engine is a high bypass turbofan. This causes the engine cowling at the front end of the engine to be larger than the rear. However, there is an area near the rear of this cowling that is used as the thrust reverser cascade system. What this means is that a portion of the cowling moves to the rear. In the next photo, you can see I've noticed there is no allowance for this in the mould when the parts were created.

Since this area of the engine does not resemble what the actual engine looks like in previous photos posted by the very nice people providing very helpful information concerning this project, I saw (no pun intended here) there was no option but to..saw apart the front and aft engine cowlings.

The plan is to add sheet styrene to extend the main body of the engine, trim, sand and add the front cowling, and then probably cover the aft end with foil to get the aluminium look I'm after.

Hope you like the progress so far. Helpful comments and suggestions are welcome as always.

Paul

Edited February 21, 2010 by Paul Mullins

[X-Plane Fan]

Here's a couple more SCA engine pics to help with those small details...

And to confuse you even more on SCA paint schemes, here's a shot I took in Nov. 1995 which shows 911 in the current scheme and 905 in the 'old' wurm scheme.

Tony