pdoo Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Hi all- I'm working on a mostly-OOB build of an original-issue Tamiya Tomcat that I'm doing in-flight, wings swept. I'm wanting to do an "as delivered" high-vis VF-1 bird, and I have two questions for the experts: 1: Did the glove vanes automatically extend when the wings swept back or only at supersonic speeds? 2: Did the early production airframes lack the alpha probes or were they added later? The early issue Tamiya kit of course lacks an alpha probe, just wondering if I can get away without adding one. Thanks if anyone can help! Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 The original production Tomcat didn't have the alpha probe. There are two things you'll have to change on the Tamiya kit to make an early production Tomcat. The boat tail area was different on the early production F-14's and the gun vent needs to be the 7 grill U-shaped vent. I believe the Tamiya kit comes with the standard 2 vent arrangement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 The original production Tomcat didn't have the alpha probe. There are two things you'll have to change on the Tamiya kit to make an early production Tomcat. The boat tail area was different on the early production F-14's and the gun vent needs to be the 7 grill U-shaped vent. I believe the Tamiya kit comes with the standard 2 vent arrangement. Huh? You positive about that? I'm about 99.9% sure they did. The computer (even the early 1970s vintage computer the F-14 had) used input from the alpha sensor. It's not like it was new technology or anything. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Space Tiger Hobbes Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 I'm terminology-challenged, but if the 'alpha probe' is the pointy thing at the pointy-most end of the pointy radome thing, the first Tomcats didn't have those, though I don't know what they did for air data. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VFA-103guy Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Huh? You positive about that? I'm about 99.9% sure they did. The computer (even the early 1970s vintage computer the F-14 had) used input from the alpha sensor. It's not like it was new technology or anything.J The alpha probe or pitot tube on the tip of the nose did not start appearing until block 95 F-14's. Earlier blocks did not have them initially, but were retro-fitted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sig Saur & Son Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Brian, I concur. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 The alpha probe and the pitot tube are two completely different and unrelated things. The pitot tube provides dynamic pressure for the airspeed indicator. The alpha probe measures angle of attack (known, not surprisingly, as alpha in calculations). The alpha probe is a small conical metal probe that sticks out at 90 degrees to the side of the fuselage (and thus 90 degrees to the airflow) to measure the relative wind vs the angle the airplane's nose is pointing. The difference between those is the angle of attack, or alpha. The nose mounted pitot tube didn't come in until (IIRC) the Block 95 Tomcats rolled off the line. Earlier ones had a mast mounted pitot on the side of the fuselage. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 I've always heard the probe on the tip of the radome referred to as an "alpha" probe. Some other small changes that are required for an early block Tomcat include deletion of the slime light on the fin caps and two slime lights on each side under the wing bladder areas. Also, there was a probe on the left side of the fuselage just below the front windscreen. It was identical in appearance to the probe just under the canopy sill on the right side. Was it a temp probe? Anyway, that was deleted in later blocks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon50EX Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 i heard the probe on the nose was an Alpha probe as well. Now, how it works exactly compared to the more conventional ones mounted on the sides i don't know. Any way you slice it, a plane like a Tomcat is gonna need Alpha sensors, maybe sideslip as well, Total Air Temperature, as well as pitot pressure. Its also common to have the pitot probes and static ports doubled up for system redundancy, and its not uncommon to have pitot and temperature probes in the engine inlets as well. Hopefully a Tomcat Driver or plane captain can speak up on this to clarify matters. FWIW, david Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reddog Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) The probe on the tip of the radome was called the Alpha Probe, period. It was used to measure airspeed and other data, it was not an AOA probe, that was on the left side of the fuselage. Reddog Edit: I'm not a Tomcat Driver or a PC, I was a Full Systems Quality Assurance Representive. Edited February 9, 2010 by Reddog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 If the probe on the tip of the nose is the alpha probe, then the Tomcat is the only airplane in the history of aviation to have one made that way. Somebody needs to show me a tech order or a pilot's manual that calls it that. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reddog Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Jennings, I worked on the thing for over 14 years so I think I know a little bit about the Tomcat, it was an Alpha Probe. But if you want technical stuff, look up the NAVAIR 01-F14AAA-2-1, NAVAIR 01-F14AAA-6.3, NAVAIR 01-F14AAA-1. They all list it as "Alpha Probe". Reddog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Hingtgen Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 So it's called an alpha probe, yet doesn't measure alpha? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VFA-103guy Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) The alpha probe and the pitot tube are two completely different and unrelated things. The pitot tube provides dynamic pressure for the airspeed indicator. The alpha probe measures angle of attack (known, not surprisingly, as alpha in calculations). The alpha probe is a small conical metal probe that sticks out at 90 degrees to the side of the fuselage (and thus 90 degrees to the airflow) to measure the relative wind vs the angle the airplane's nose is pointing. The difference between those is the angle of attack, or alpha.The nose mounted pitot tube didn't come in until (IIRC) the Block 95 Tomcats rolled off the line. Earlier ones had a mast mounted pitot on the side of the fuselage. J No need to get technical.. :lol: Edited February 9, 2010 by VFA-103guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Are we getting a little anal about the probes ? Sorry .... sorry ... I had to ... sorry ... I'll leave now ... :lol: Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sig Saur & Son Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Great one there Grey Ghost. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) Grey Ghost, you have a sick, sick mind! Edited February 9, 2010 by Darren Roberts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rampage55 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Are we getting a little anal about the probes ? You had to go there didn't you... :lol: Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zerosystem Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Are we getting a little anal about the probes ? Sorry .... sorry ... I had to ... sorry ... I'll leave now ... Gregg lmfao Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VFA-103guy Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) Grey Ghost, you have a sick, sick mind! Could be worse...Gregg could have a 40 foot satellite dish coming out of his butt. Edited February 9, 2010 by VFA-103guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jinxter13 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 No need to get Dishy about it.....geeez Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Could be worse...Gregg could have a 40 foot satellite dish coming out of his butt. Hey ... I can watch Chinese Thumb Wrestling live from Beijing with the reception I get ! Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VFA-103guy Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Hey ... I can watch Chinese Thumb Wrestling live from Beijing with the reception I get ! :lol: Gregg Gregg..I don't think that's something you should advertise. ..that is, unless you're getting channels in HD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Gregg..I don't think that's something you should advertise. :lol: ..that is, unless you're getting channels in HD. I said I can watch, I didn't say I did watch ... :lol: Yup, all in full 1080p, Brian ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
benjo Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Are we getting a little anal about the probes ? Gregg LOL dude, you really hit the nail on the head there. Made my day :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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