nachjager Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Just read the news today on Z5, a new EA-6B will be most welcome. Better hurry and start selling my old RM copies on EvilBay. LOL. And, on a side note, looking at the posts regarding the EA-6B on Z5 makes me think that there is someone that would rather see Kinetic crash down in ‘chinese communist’ flames that to try hard and improve their products. This guy has been so ‘offended’ by kinetic’s f-16 releases that he is practically on a crusade to tarnish Kinectic (and Trumpy and Dragon) reputation there and every modeling forum he posts. Personally, I don’t care if models are produced in a democracy, a theocracy or a slaveocracy nor the designers speak Chinese, German, Rumanian or Klinglon. Ahh, well, just my moment of INlucidity due to breathing resin dust… Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dthank Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Just read the news today on Z5, a new EA-6B will be most welcome. Better hurry and start selling my old RM copies on EvilBay. LOL.And, on a side note, looking at the posts regarding the EA-6B on Z5 makes me think that there is someone that would rather see Kinetic crash down in 'chinese communist' flames that to try hard and improve their products. This guy has been so 'offended' by kinetic's f-16 releases that he is practically on a crusade to tarnish Kinectic (and Trumpy and Dragon) reputation there and every modeling forum he posts. Personally, I don't care if models are produced in a democracy, a theocracy or a slaveocracy nor the designers speak Chinese, German, Rumanian or Klinglon. Ahh, well, just my moment of INlucidity due to breathing resin dust… I know exactly the person you are talking about. He seems personally offended by the Kinetic F-16 kit's errors and even more so by the fact that Kinetic's attempt to correct the flaws didn't reach perfection. He worships the Tamiya F-16 kits and any others are seen by him as unworthy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikeyc5usaf Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 (edited) well each person is entitled to their opinion, and that's pretty much the only one ive seen complaining about it. so i wouldnt worry too much Edited February 15, 2010 by mikeyc5usaf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PlasticWeapons Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 I expected something like this to happen, as has been seen with previous "new" model kits that are to be released in the near future. No surprise that the discussion is turning into "that" yet again, eh? Makes me wanna comment on the cost of resin aftermarket stuff that's being sold but I'll keep quiet on that... I'll wait and see what Kinetic comes up with. I'm one of those modelers just happy to see something new in plastic. By the way, is the Kinetic E-2C Hawkeye decent? Haven't seen much in the way of builds. I'd really want one but will buy one direct from Asia as they are cheaper there than in the states. :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nachjager Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 I expected something like this to happen, as has been seen with previous "new" model kits that are to be released in the near future. No surprise that the discussion is turning into "that" yet again, eh? Makes me wanna comment on the cost of resin aftermarket stuff that's being sold but I'll keep quiet on that...I'll wait and see what Kinetic comes up with. I'm one of those modelers just happy to see something new in plastic. By the way, is the Kinetic E-2C Hawkeye decent? Haven't seen much in the way of builds. I'd really want one but will buy one direct from Asia as they are cheaper there than in the states. Yep, it is a very good model, not perfect as the..umm..Tamiya’s F-16s..but shows Kinetic efforts are paying off. The cockpit is good but will benefit with a resin one (as the Tamiya F-16). I got two from Lucky and even with shipping it was cheaper that one here in the States. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Huey Gunner Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 I know exactly the person you are talking about. He seems personally offended by the Kinetic F-16 kit's errors and even more so by the fact that Kinetic's attempt to correct the flaws didn't reach perfection. He worships the Tamiya F-16 kits and any others are seen by him as unworthy.While I do venture into that forum once in a while, Z5 has a lot of angry members that tend to take the fun out of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boom175 Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 I know exactly the person you are talking about. He seems personally offended by the Kinetic F-16 kit's errors and even more so by the fact that Kinetic's attempt to correct the flaws didn't reach perfection. He worships the Tamiya F-16 kits and any others are seen by him as unworthy. Wow, thats what were doing now here on ARC trashing other people??? Mike is a good freind of mine and if you read what he said about the Kinetic F-16's you would realize that all he said over several posts is that the Kinetic F-16 is wrong and the Tamiya F-16 is right. Thats it in its most basic form. wheras you might not like his style of writing (thats from his service in the USAF where he was a QA inspector and was paid to find flaws). Yeah Mike comes off a little brusque at times, but he does tell the truth. Also incase your interested, he is in contact with people at Kinetic to help out on future projects. I am really suprised at this, I thougt ARC was supposed to be friendly! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matt Roberts Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Ok no need to refight the Kinetic Wars again. Especially as the Hawkeye has had mostly positive reviews, showing that they are improving and with the Prowler the standard should be raised again, there is no need to keep bringing up the Viper series again. The F-16 is mostly a dead horse now. New releases are continuing to be released and they should be judged on the merits of the new parts and markings. The 'flaws' have been driven into the ground and really should be pinned so that they have no need to be rehashed. I think one of the mags (SAM) this month has a dual build of the Kinetic and Hasegawa Sufas and I hope that finally photos will be presented so that all of the 'massive inaccuracies' that are regulary thrown about will be known to all. Perhaps finally that whole issue will be done then. So everyone take a step back and take a deep breath, no need to snipe at persons (or at other boards either) Matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmanrick Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 (edited) And, on a side note, looking at the posts regarding the EA-6B on Z5 makes me think that there is someone that would rather see Kinetic crash down in ‘chinese communist’ flames that to try hard and improve their products. This guy has been so ‘offended’ by kinetic’s f-16 releases that he is practically on a crusade to tarnish Kinectic (and Trumpy and Dragon) reputation there and every modeling forum he posts. There are a few of those haters around, some just exist to bash everything it seems sometimes, mostly they only go about it to "prove their superior knowledge" imo. I mean it's one thing to lament or even complain about the errors, I think we all wish that the kits would be totally accurate right oob. But, these haters don't seem to offer anything beyond the same old tired, "Trumpy/HB/Kinetic et al can't produce anything worth a damn" arguments. Forgetting all the while that while the quarter scale RA-5 Vigilante/Su-24 Fencer for example may have errors, they're also the only injection molded examples we'll ever see. It's for damn sure that Tamiya/Hasegawa will never venture into that territory. Edited February 16, 2010 by madmanrick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Av8fan Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 (edited) A-6B and A-6E Tram I was going to say something else but, I changed it to: I like airplanes that are pointy and go fast, but I would still like to see these kits! Hmm, The A-10 is a favorite as well. Okay I like planes! Edited February 16, 2010 by Av8fan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maverick684 Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I too would love to see an A-6, have the hawkeye sitting in the closet. I agree with everyone else at least someone is willing to produce the kits in plastic! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dthank Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 (edited) Wow, thats what were doing now here on ARC trashing other people??? Mike is a good freind of mine and if you read what he said about the Kinetic F-16's you would realize that all he said over several posts is that the Kinetic F-16 is wrong and the Tamiya F-16 is right. Thats it in its most basic form. wheras you might not like his style of writing (thats from his service in the USAF where he was a QA inspector and was paid to find flaws). Yeah Mike comes off a little brusque at times, but he does tell the truth. Also incase your interested, he is in contact with people at Kinetic to help out on future projects. I am really suprised at this, I thougt ARC was supposed to be friendly! 1. I am not "trashing" anyone. 2. I have read the multiple threads and he is not just stating that kit A is wrong and kit B is right. 3. I have no issues with anyone's style of writing - I am not an english teacher. 4. The fact that he is "helping out" with future projects contradicts his views on companies use of model forums instead of employing "real technical consultants". Look, I have no personal issue with anyone on any model forums. I have always maintained a friendly attitude and will continue to do so here and elsewhere. Just stating the facts as I see them, no offense intended. Edited February 16, 2010 by dthank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 (edited) I think one of the mags (SAM) this month has a dual build of the Kinetic and Hasegawa Sufas and I hope that finally photos will be presented so that all of the 'massive inaccuracies' that are regulary thrown about will be known to all. Perhaps finally that whole issue will be done then. God exists ! Photos ! Not opinions ! Edited February 16, 2010 by Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spongebob Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 To do the Greyhound, they'd be able to use the Hawkeye's wings and landing gear parts, right? That could save Kinetic some work Wing and tires are about it...and the Kinetic tires aren't good. Everything else, while maybe looking similar, is different. I, for one, am very happy to see the variety of kits that Kinetic, Trumpeter and others are popping out. For all of the "O-faces" about the Tamiya F-16 kits...the only one they've ever released is a C model. Sponge Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dmanton300 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 4. The fact that he is "helping out" with future projects contradicts his views on companies use of model forums instead of employing "real technical consultants". I would suggest his extensive experience in dealing with the subject matter as an aerospace professional and his previous consultancy work with kit manufacturers (they went to him, not vice-versa) makes him amply qualified to be a Real Technical Consultant. I think he's talking more about the enthusiastic amateur who may know the subject from a certain perspective, but doesn't really understand how to get to B from A in practical terms. Especially the ones who THINK they know more than they really do. They're the most dangerous! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I would suggest his extensive experience in dealing with the subject matter as an aerospace professional and his previous consultancy work with kit manufacturers (they went to him, not vice-versa) makes him amply qualified to be a Real Technical Consultant. I think he's talking more about the enthusiastic amateur who may know the subject from a certain perspective, but doesn't really understand how to get to B from A in practical terms. Especially the ones who THINK they know more than they really do. They're the most dangerous! A good things about not relying on a single person is that if the person misses something, somebody else may not. Example: MoFo helped Trumpeter on the Tu-22M but he forgot to look at the canopy on the CAD model. http://www.trashmodeller.com/index.php?topic=1130.0 Enthusiatic amateurs can be useful if they are methodic: use of photographs; if drawings are used, validate them before taking them as reference material. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MasterJedi Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 First the Trumpeter Tomcat now the Prowler, I'm going to be in the man cave forever. I look so forward to painting four of everything in the cockpit, not! I've built a couple Kinetic kits now and have been impressed by the out of the box product. This will be an excellent addition to the collection of almost finished stuff on the bench. Randy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jgrease Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 (edited) copy cat, don't copy old kits. Raymond...I think , you have full redesign and development, don't work copy master. :) Who'd a thunk it? First post and it's a hostile post and barely readable! Think this guy has an axe to grind? Let me go sit down... Edited March 29, 2010 by jgrease Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ventura_kelley Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 Dear ARCer,Just return from Germany Toy Fair, here we present to you our coming new item (release date not confirmed yet): Looks good. If I may make a couple of suggestions... Please, NO RECESSED RIVETS. The only place you can see holes on the skin of these planes is where fasteners (like screws) are, like on thisEA-6B (link) and on this F-5 (link). But you'll notice that the panel right next to the one with screws is flush riveted and those rivets do not look like holes. I haven't bought anything from Kinetic since the F-84F, so I'm not familiar with your recent work, but HobbyBoss/Trumpeter obviously haven't figured this out yet. If your kit is as expensive as the Revell kit PLUS all the aftermarket fixes for it, your kit needs to be at least as accurate as that other kit WITH all the resin/photo etch fixes AND easier to build. For example, the HobbyBoss A-7A is $68, but the nose is all messed up. I can buy a Hasegawa A-7E, with the fixes for the same price as the HobbyBoss A-7A, and I'll have a more accurate model. So why would I buy the HobbyBoss kit? Your Prowler needs to answer that same question. For the money, is it at least as accurate AND easier to build than what's already available? Folding wings are not a selling point if I want to build mine with straight wings and can't do that easily with your kit. Personally, I think wings and fuselages need to be moulded as one piece, with thin spots (cut lines) moulded inside for opening panels, split fuselages, and folding wings so we can open those things if we want them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zerosystem Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 I too would love to see an A-6, have the hawkeye sitting in the closet. I agree with everyone else at least someone is willing to produce the kits in plastic! hummer in the closet? :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ventura_kelley Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 Wing and tires are about it...and the Kinetic tires aren't good. Everything else, while maybe looking similar, is different. Kinetic, Oh yea, that's another pet peeve of mine about recent kits. I can fix a lot of stuff that I don't like on a kit. The fin is wrong? Fine, I can section and reshape it. Poor detail in the cockpit? Panels in the wrong place? Bad canopy? I can fix those too. I CAN'T FIX WHEELS/TIRES. I have to wait for someone to release a set of resin wheels that I then have to buy (and I strongly resent having to buy anything for a kit that costs almost a hundred dollars). Every single one of my recent HobbyBoss kits has cartoonish wheels/tires, which is something I just cannot live with. So I can't build those kits until someone releases something to fix them. Please make sure you get the wheels/tires right. They need to be shaped/proportioned like the real ones. I, for one, am very happy to see the variety of kits that Kinetic, Trumpeter and others are popping out. For all of the "O-faces" about the Tamiya F-16 kits...the only one they've ever released is a C model.Sponge I would be too, if it made financial sense for me to buy them. I can buy a Hasegawa A-7E and backdate it to an A-7A for less than the HobbyBoss A-7A costs and have a more accurate model. I just can't deal with the price of the HB kit and the nose problem. I build the Monogram A-7A back in the early 90's and hated how it looked when it was finished because of its shape issues, why would I spend $68 for a new kit with exactly the same problems? It's not enough that its new, it needs to either be better (at least as accurate & easier to build) or much cheaper. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dagger00 Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 Excellent, hope we can see in the near future an A-6E TRAM Intruder!!!!!!! ..........................and a Mirage III-E!!!!!!!!!!!!! By the way, for all the perfectionist whose only concern is destroying companies reputations, not taking in consideration the efforts made to correct such supposed inaccuracies and so on, I´ll tell you something that you probably doesn´t know........the perfect model kit doesn´t exist and won´t exist ever.......they´re only representations, with variable degree of accuracy, of the respective subject....and if you think all is wrong, well, invest some money and build the perfect moulds! JMHO :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmanrick Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 (edited) ........the perfect model kit doesn´t exist and won´t exist ever.......they´re only representations, with variable degree of accuracy, of the respective subject.... Edited March 29, 2010 by madmanrick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Liberator24 Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 next we will thaw out Walt Disney...... and taken from The Simpsons, Homer as Krusty extra... "Stop it, he's already dead......" -Jim p.s.: I dont give a crap either. i just want more kits.....Bwahahahahaaaaa!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jgrease Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 next we will thaw out Walt Disney......and taken from The Simpsons, Homer as Krusty extra... "Stop it, he's already dead......" -Jim p.s.: I dont give a crap either. i just want more kits.....Bwahahahahaaaaa!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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