adammil1 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I am new to the forum, I've been involved with model railroading all my life either fine scale HO modeling, or 3.75scale live steam. Never model aircraft but similar enough, especially the fine scale HO models, that I am by nomeans intimitated by the demands of small detail parts and doing them right. I just started working for Sikorsky I am on the 53K heavy lift replacement project to replace the 53E and now it is becomming apparent I "need" some good Sikorsky helicopters on my desk. For the Holiday's I got the Academy UH-60L in 1/35th scale and just bought the big Eduard upgrade set. Giving the fact that many of those who walk by my models will have designed many of the given parts seen on these, I need this one to be as near perfect as possible! Additionally I really want to model the presidential fleet. I think these are the ones including myself everyone is real proud of. Indeed when I am over at the main plant, I some times even see these in for work which is real cool. I would like to one day build the VH-3D the, VH-60, and the VH-53. Since I already have the UH-60 I would like to start there. The biggest issue between the military and presidential outside of paint I see is the types of doors on the VH-60, hinged opening ones, vs. sliding? Has anyone ever done this conversion, as well as done up the right decals? I am really suprised no one sells presidential fleet options on thier kits, or Eduard doesn't sell an upgrade set or something. Does anyone know if there are any resources out there to turn to? The closest thing I have found to an off the shelf presidential model is the cancelled VH-72. I really also would like to build these in as big of scale as possible. Thanks, Adam Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aaronw Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I understand there is some issue with commercial use of the presidential seal, which has limited the interest of decal makers. As far as helicopter models I think you are going to find 1/48 is going to be the largest scale you will find all the kits you are looking for, and 1/72 will greatly expand your options / ease of locating the kits. Don't forget the old VH-34, the first of the bunch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
doupnik Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Adam Welcome to ARC. I'm a big fan of Sikorsky and the 53. I've already made a couple of Academy's 48th 53E, very nice kit , and thinking about starting another. It's definitely a big one about 2' square with the blades out. Cobra Company has a bunch of resin goodies that are "must haves" for most of my helo builds. Be ready to pay a pretty penny for 48th H-34s, they are very rare and will not be re-released. mason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hooknladderno1 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Adam, Welcome to the group. I too am a fan of the presidential aircraft. I have too many projects on the workbench or "on the drawing board" to even consider them, but they are neat looking, and a great part of our history. You could always go with custom made decals. There are several good designers/printers out there. Although I don't know the legalities involved, as long as it is for your own private use, I don't see why not? I'm sure that someone here with more knowledge on the subject could provide a better answer. Look forward to seeing your builds. David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Remington Box Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I will extend the same invitation to you that I have to others... give me a jingle, I am sure I can help you with decals... a VH-60 is somewhere close to the front on my project list. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
adammil1 Posted February 23, 2010 Author Share Posted February 23, 2010 The Bigger problem than the Decals I think that the project of modeling these would bring is more a matter of getting the proper doors and plastic parts for the side of the aircraft and also getting good pictures. Since I spend part of my time now, and eventually will spend all of my time working in the building that houses the VH Hanger, as well as the main blackhawk production floor there are plenty of people who should be able to catch me "cheating" on parts that I model wrong. At the same time running out with a camera when one of those is sitting out back is a good way to get fired. Is there anyone out there online who has successfully replicated some of these details or who can point me to more photos to better access this project and how to go about doing this? I don't mind buying and painting up highly detailed parts however I am not sure how well my skills would be at scratchbuilding entire large sections of fuselage. I still don't know why no commercial line of aircraft has picked up these before. It seems like if Academy wanted to be able to sell 4models at a time to the same person the VH-60, VH-3B, VH-53, and the Presidential Chinook would be a natural fit for their model line. I really don't think the theory of the copyright is too accurate considering that there are a bunch of toy models out there of the same helicopter with their own decals. Mason on the subject of the 53E. One of my coworkers has it on his desk. I was quite impressed. Definately a must build, considering it is the closest thing I can get to building a model of the 53K which my self and many others will be actively working to complete the first model of in 1:1 over the next few years! When you were building it did you ever look into the Eduard detail set for that aircraft. I have been blown away with the pics of their stuff I saw, and can't wait to get ahold of their UH-60 detail sets. Adam Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steven H. McLain Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 By any chance can you get us the FS numbers for the colors of all the aircraft? Especially the green on the helos. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I understand there is some issue with commercial use of the presidential seal, which has limited the interest of decal makers. Absolutely untrue. The U.S. government does not copyright nor use trademarks. There is no restriction whatsoever on the use of the Presidential seal in any way, shape, form, or fashion. Probably the main reason decals are rare is because of the huge number of mods made to any aircraft earmarked for Presidential use. You can't just slap VIP markings on a Sea King and get a VH-3. The airframe is vastly different from any other Sea King. Ditto for the VC-25s and VH-60s. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aaronw Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Absolutely untrue. The U.S. government does not copyright nor use trademarks. There is no restriction whatsoever on the use of the Presidential seal in any way, shape, form, or fashion.Probably the main reason decals are rare is because of the huge number of mods made to any aircraft earmarked for Presidential use. You can't just slap VIP markings on a Sea King and get a VH-3. The airframe is vastly different from any other Sea King. Ditto for the VC-25s and VH-60s. J There was a discussion I thought here, several months back. It wasn't a copyright / trademark issue, it was somekind of prohibition of the presidential seal being used commercially. I know that sounds like copyright / trademark but the restriction was making money from it. Granted its wikipedia but Regulated use In general, commercial use of the seal is prohibited by 18 USC 713[6] of the United States Code, and further defined by Executive Orders 11916 and 11649. The United States Secret Service is authorized to use the seal in conjunction to fund raising sales for its charitable benefit fund. Currently the 1600 for Men line of toiletries bears a modified version of the seal (modified in that: the words "THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES" instead of "SEAL OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES" ring the stars, eagle, and shield; dark blue pervades as the base color throughout; and the eagle's feathers are silver) and includes items such as antibacterial wash, shaving cream, aftershave and soap. Unofficial use of the seal is regulated by the White House Graphics and Calligraphy Office and monitored by the office of the White House Counsel. On September 28, 2005, Grant M. Dixton, associate counsel to George W. Bush, requested that the satirical newspaper The Onion remove the presidential seal from its website.[7][8] The Graphic and Calligraphy Office will approve of the seal's use in application of official gifts, an example being its application to a silver cigarette box presented as a gift to Franklin Roosevelt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wayne S Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Wish I can recall the seal or see a close up on the aircraft. I think there is little differences made on the Seal that is on the aircraft. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 It regulates it, but it has no legal authority to deny its use. They can ask, they can't demand. The seal on the a/c is exactly the same as that on the flag of the President. I've got the complete (14' long) Boeing painting diagram for the VC-25A as well as several versions of the painting diagrams used on the VC-137Bs, and they all show the standard seal. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wayne S Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 It regulates it, but it has no legal authority to deny its use. They can ask, they can't demand.The seal on the a/c is exactly the same as that on the flag of the President. I've got the complete (14' long) Boeing painting diagram for the VC-25A as well as several versions of the painting diagrams used on the VC-137Bs, and they all show the standard seal. J Don't see any pictures where the seal can be seen good on the VC-25. Only ones I can tell that might have the true seal is on the Marines A/C. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
terryt Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) The Presidential/Vice Presidential Seal is regulated by Executive Order 11649 http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/c...rder/11649.html http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/713.html If you want to use the seals for commercial purposes you have to contact the U. S. Secret Service. Edited February 24, 2010 by terryt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hooknladderno1 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 As a side note on the subject, FineScale Modeler magazine (Nov. 1999) featured an article on printing decals with an ALPS printer. As part of the article, the authors(Paul Boyer and Rick Johnson) featured how they used the ALPS to print the Presidential Seal. Anyone with access to the article, check it out. The single photo of the resulting decals looks really cool. David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wayne S Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 How are the Decals Seal etc. in the Italeri VH-71 kit? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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