Waco

[lockheed2004]

I hate to call out another member. But, after almost 3 months of waiting I feel this post is warranted.

During the ARC chatroom giveaway on Dec 5, I was the recipient of a 90th FS Raptor Driver patch, donated by Waco. I sent him my mailing address and assumed within a few weeks, I'd see something in the mailbox.

Jan 12 - PM'd Waco to ask if he'd had a chance to mail the item, hadn't seen anything show up. (PM read, never replied)

Jan 25 - PM'd to ask what status was (PM read, never replied)

Feb 15 - PM'd to ask for status, wanted to know if he'd mailed it or opted not to donate (PM read, never replied)

The frustrating part of this is that Waco is on the boards nearly every day, posting several times each day. At this point, I don't even care if I get the item. It was a free prize. I just want Waco to reply to any of my 4 PM's and let me know if he ever mailed the item out or if he was not able to obtain the prize. If it got lost in the mail, so be it. He could lie to me and say it was mailed for all I care. The ignoring PM's, which he has read, is what frustrates me the most about this situation. I don't think taking 2 minutes to reply to a PM is asking for too much.

If Waco contacts me to resolve this issue, I will ask that this post be removed.

Thank you,

Brian

[phantom]

I do not think this would qualify as a bad trader alert. It was a free prize. If money was spent on your part in exchange then yes.

[Benner]

I agree with Phantom, enough said.

[madmanrick]

WOW! Have some of you lost your mind? Not getting something you "won for free" and this qualifies as a bad trader? You've obviously never been truly taken advantage of by a "bad trader" before. I will agree that perhaps communications could have been better, however again not being privy to the private communications, I can't say positively one way or the other. A bad trader takes something from you (money, kit etc.) in exchange for something in return, but after taking your "something" fails to provide (in a timely manner) their "something". That is not what happened here, perhaps instead we should create a "Poor Communicator" thread or a "You Ain't No Nice Guy" thread for things such as this?

[lockheed2004]

Guys, I realize I'm not out any money. However, the Rules of the Road state:

"Unfortunately, every once in a while, we all experience a bad trade where someone doesn't come through on their end of the bargain. With this in mind, this forum was created to warn other readers about potential bad traders, and to give those accused a chance to tell their side of the story."

In this instance, Waco hasn't come through on his end of the deal. As I said in my opening post, I am concerned with the lack of response from Waco. I'm not even asking him to send me another patch (if he mailed the first one). All I want is him to reply to a PM and let me know where his end of the deal stands. Things get lost in the mail, I understand that. But it takes 30 seconds to reply to a PM and say "I sent it", or "Hey, I've been busy, sorry...."

As I discussed with Flyingfortress, I realize it's a free item. But how would you feel if next year I donate something to the raffle (be it a patch or a 1/32 Tamiya Spitfire), which you win and never receive? I think you would probably message me and expect a reply as to where your item was at. I would have the courtesy to respond to you. Waco does not and that is my point. He's clearly on the boards every day posting, I think he could take the time to return a PM sometime in the last 3 months.

We do not have a "Poor Communicator" forum. If someone has a better idea on where to post this, I'm all for it. If Waco returns my PM, I'll ask this thread be removed.

Brian

[devil505]

Bad trader? I'm going to lean toward yes.

Regardless if it was free or cost 5K. And yes, this is the place to get these very issues resolved.

[SBARC]

Guys, I realize I'm not out any money. However, the Rules of the Road state:

"Unfortunately, every once in a while, we all experience a bad trade where someone doesn't come through on their end of the bargain. With this in mind, this forum was created to warn other readers about potential bad traders, and to give those accused a chance to tell their side of the story."

Brian

This refers to a "bad trade"....which begs the obvious question......What were you trading for the patch?

[WymanV]

This refers to a "bad trade"....which begs the obvious question......What were you trading for the patch?

Not relevant. A broken deal is a broken deal.

Ken

[madmanrick]

It is indeed relevant, "trade" is strictly defined as:

The act or an instance of buying or selling; transaction.

An exchange of one thing for another.

An offer to provide something to someone for nothing in exchange can not be considered a "trade". As mentioned above it may be considered bad form, it may be bad communication, but it is NOT even in a liberal definition, a bad "trade".

[Wayne S]

It is indeed relevant, "trade" is strictly defined as:

The act or an instance of buying or selling; transaction.

An exchange of one thing for another.

An offer to provide something to someone for nothing in exchange can not be considered a "trade". As mentioned above it may be considered bad form, it may be bad communication, but it is NOT even in a liberal definition, a bad "trade".

Not getting into the WACO vs lockheed2004 deal, with this.

A transaction is a form of trading, as is communication. There is nothing in Trading that is defined by selling and buying. Trading of services is trade.

Saying that, it is a trade. If one asked for something in return for their service no matter what it may be. It is in-fact a trade. One put a cost on the service they provided.

No-one can "win" something for "free."

To win something takes participation, that participation is a service.

When one asked for said participation to win something. They are setting a value/worth to the service they are providing.

[Flying Penguin]

I don't really want to pour fuel on the fire, I don't know Waco or Brian personally, and can't really vouch for either side, but I can't agree that this shouldn't have been posted here.

If someone steps up (through their own generosity) to give a prize/sponsor a GB raffle, they naturally go up in most people's estimation (and rightly so!). But are we really going to say that not following through on that commitment is not worthy of comment? Really?

Yes Waco is under no legal obligation* to deliver, no money was given. He would be well within his rights to go "sorry mate, I can't follow through because... x", But if someone makes public commitments then breaks them in private without even trying to do the right thing (e.g. no message to explain), then that's definitely worth calling out. It shows a serious lack of class to deliberately make promises you don't intend to keep**, and if you do so in a way which the promises are public and improve your standing, then the calling out should be public. To do otherwise gives members a free reign to make themselves look good by making false promises.

Would you really rather this was in general discussion? Would be a lot more public there....

Cheers

Jamie

*at least under UK law, it would be hard to prove intention to create legal relations in a friendly raffle on an internet forum, I assume some similar doctrine exists in the US but IANAL

**I'm speaking generally here

[gotarheelz14]

I agree with some of our members' logic and reasoning here. In case a promise is not carried out without a good explanation, this would seem like a more than appropriate place to air the grudge. This, I do not deny.

However, having participated in one of Waco's raffles I can tell you that Waco is not that kind of person. He shipped a 1/48 F-22 Academy Raptor to my house. I didn't pay a cent for the plane. I didn't pay a single cent for the shipping. If Waco made that promise, I can vouch for him that he meant to come through with that promise. If I remember correctly, some people on here have said that he ships from Alaska. The package I received was from Rhode Island (I believe) but if he is indeed shipping from "Wild Alaska" as Gregg pointed out in my thread "Shoutout to Waco", you could very well be waiting a little longer for the package to arrive.

Edited March 2, 2010 by gotarheelz14

[Arkasha]

"If someone steps up (through their own generosity) to give a prize/sponsor a GB raffle, they naturally go up in most people's estimation (and rightly so!). But are we really going to say that not following through on that commitment is not worthy of comment?"

I agree. If this Waco person made the offer to donate, then he's under an obligation to either explain or come through. Nobody compelled him to make the offer - to simply clam up when the winner asks about the prize isn't the right thing to do.

[Benner]

No-one can "win" something for "free."

To win something takes participation, that participation is a service.

When one asked for said participation to win something. They are setting a value/worth to the service they are providing.

... wait a minute, a lot of us were participating in the raffle and a lot of us didn't win! What kind of crap payment is that for our service? So, let's go with the majority not winning, they got nada for their service, therefore, Lockheed's worth for his service is just as good as the majority ... nada

I didn't dig up the old raffle thread, but I doubt any of us were "asked" to participate. It was an "offer"; I know no one asked me to take the 1:48 E-2C ... how rude.

[phantom]

I was the lucky one that got the E-2. I'll let you have the empty box when its done if you want........ I was just going over the instructions for it a hour ago, really looking forward to building it.

[lockheed2004]

Guys,

Thank you to all who weighed in with their opinions. I received a patch in today's mail. As such, I will ask Steve to remove this thread.

Thank you Waco for coming through on your end.

Brian