1:72 DC-10-30 kit now available

[David Hingtgen]

Paul---any of the series 60's are longer than any of the 50's. And specifically, the -63 is MUCH longer than a -50. Also, the wingtips are different, comparing -63 to -50. Engines alone will not be sufficient to get a -63 from any -50. (AFAIK all the -50's are externally identical, save cargo doors etc)

If you're thinking of the NASA plane I'm thinking of, that is a -72, the rarest of all. If you want to make a -72 from a -50, you need new engines and pylons, a fuselage stretch, and new wingtips. Plus the nose plugs and exhaust vents.

As this is quickly becoming a DC-8 thread, this drawing may help: (it's not mine--maybe Jennings drew it?)

Edited May 6, 2010 by David Hingtgen

[tnuag]

Paul---any of the series 60's are longer than any of the 50's. And specifically, the -63 is MUCH longer than a -50. Also, the wingtips are different, comparing -63 to -50. Engines alone will not be sufficient to get a -63 from any -50. (AFAIK all the -50's are externally identical, save cargo doors etc)

If you're thinking of the NASA plane I'm thinking of, that is a -72, the rarest of all. If you want to make a -72 from a -50, you need new engines and pylons, a fuselage stretch, and new wingtips. Plus the nose plugs and exhaust vents.

As this is quickly becoming a DC-8 thread, this drawing may help: (it's not mine--maybe Jennings drew it?)

This is my understanding of the various variants:

Fuselage - short: series 10/20/30.40/50

Fuselage - Medium: series 62/72

Fuselage - long: series 61/63/71/73

Series seventies has plugs on the air conditioning intakes and the outlet doors were replaced by louvres (thanks David!).

Wing - narrow span: series 10/20/30.40/50/61

Wing - Extended span: Series 62/63/72/73

Engines/pylons:

Various engine (P & W & RR) on series 10/20/30/40/50/61. The pylons wrapped round the wing leading edge.

Series 10 engines - Pratt & Whitney JT3C-6

Series 20 engines - Pratt & Whitney JT4A-3

Series 30 engines - Pratt & Whitney JT4A-3 plus increased fuel and all up weight

Series 40 engines - Rolls-Royce Conway

Series 50 engines - Pratt & Whitney JT3D

Series 61 engines - Pratt & Whitney JT3D

Series 62/63 engines - Pratt & Whitney JT3D-7. Low drag pylons which attach under the wing - they do NOT wrap around the leading edge.

Series 71/72/73 engines - CFM56-2. New pylons to suit the new engines.

(Engine types taken from Wikipedia)

I would have thought that to model the NASA aircraft the easist way would have been to shorten the fuselage of our -63 kit. CFM-56 engines will be available when time permits!

The many variants have led us to reconsider how we package our kits, and in discussion with Hannants, future airliner kits will be made up of two packs - the airframe pack and an engines/pylons pack with decals. This will let us offer all the variants more easily. Perhaps we should offer the decals separately in future? On the website it would be listed as a normal kit, but two boxes would arrive not one!

Neil Gaunt

Aircraft In Miniature Limited

Edited May 7, 2010 by tnuag

[David Hingtgen]

If you get finicky, the -11 and -12 are different (mainly wing details), but the -11 was so short-lived I don't even remember if they actually went into service, and may have been modified to -12 standard prior to delivery.

The difference between the JT3C on a -10 and the JT4A on a -20 is subtle. (unlike on the 707 family, where JT3C and JT4A are more readily identifiable)

The -33? I think introduced the leading edge extension across the whole wing, which was then retrofitted on many DC-8s and incorporated into all future production. Difference is subtle though.

You can more easily tell a -71 from a -73 going by the nacelle strakes rather than trying to judge what style of wingtips it has. The -73 has nacelle strakes, the -71 does not. (the -72 has them as well but it's never hard to spot a -72)

Edited May 7, 2010 by David Hingtgen

[Paul Mullins]

Gentlemen, I apologize if I was unclear about my intentions. So, let me see if I have this right. I know the 63 is longer than the 53, but I was under the impression from the photos I've seen that the NASA DC-8-73 was an upgraded -53 series with new engines. Because, to my eye, that particular aircraft looks shorter than the -63. I'm building the -63 as a Flying Tigers jet that flew me to and from Guam way back when. (Pleasant memories of ancient history). I have the -53, and I wanted to do something special with it other than a regular line jet. (Although, I suppose I could do a PanAm Livery). So if I understand this correctly, what we're saying is that the DC-8-53 model would require much more surgery than I thought to make it into a DC-8-73 like the one used by NASA. Wow, I had planned on just using the extra set of CFM-56 engines I had from the old Heller E-3/AEW.1 Sentry kit, (with the requisite surgery to make the engine pylons match what's on the NASA bird), adding the extra vents and that would have sufficed. But, as I now understand it, the 73 is actually longer than the -53 but shorter than the -63? And, the -73 has the longer wings found on a -63? Or, is the -73 the same length as the -53 but with the -63 wings and the new engines and vents? Or, am I completely off the mark here? By the way, I apologize if I managed to inavdertantly turn this into a DC-8 thread. This is still a celebration of the outstanding DC-10-30 kit that Neil has produced. I was just looking for info on an idea I had about another one of his kits. I have both the DC-10-30 which will become a Continental Red/Gold livery in honor of a friend that was on the very first all female flight crew, and the KC-10 that came in the mail yesterday will be done in the initial delivery colors of white/grey/blue. I had initially decided to do the DC-10 as a FedEx cargo plane, but the window decals were just too good to pass up. So, Continental it is.

Sorry Guys,

Paul

[Jennings]

NASA's airplane is a -72, not a -73 (no matter what a caption may say). She started out life as a DC-8-62, which is shorter than a -61 or -63, but longer than a -50 series. There were very few -62s converted to -72s, but NASA's is definitely one of them.

J

[Paul Mullins]

J,

How much longer is the 72 than the -53? It does not seem like it's that much longer.

Paul

[David Hingtgen]

80 inches longer overall, 40in each ahead and behind the wing.

[Paul Mullins]

80 inches...The -72 is just six feet 8 inches longer than the -53? Let's see. Keeping things in perspective, in 1/72 scale, six feet is 1 inch, so, I would need to add just a hair over a half of an inch to the fore and aft parts of the fuselage in order to make the 1/72 DC-8-53 into a -72. That's an awful lot of work for a small gain. With apologies towards whom this will probably annoy, I think I can live with my representation being a little short. I realize it won't be all that accurate, but I just like the livery on the the NASA DC-8. So, I'll stick with my original plan to put the CFM-56 engines I already have on the DC-8-53 and paint it up like the NASA bird. I will however, add the sensor platforms and associated extra antennae I see in photos to the sides of the fuselage and on the top and bottom of the bird. Thank you all very much for the info guys. Please do not feel as though I'm disregarding the advice. I'm not, I know the aircraft will not be a true representation. I've simply decided that a compromise was in order so as to save myself time, effort, and a lot of frustration. I'm still working on the 747/shuttle project, and that's enough surgery on plastic to last me a very, very long time before I ever get an urge to do it again. Plus, I really would like to get one of these kits finished so I can show it to all of you.

Regards,

Paul

[tnuag]

80 inches...The -72 is just six feet 8 inches longer than the -53? Let's see. Keeping things in perspective, in 1/72 scale, six feet is 1 inch, so, I would need to add just a hair over a half of an inch to the fore and aft parts of the fuselage in order to make the 1/72 DC-8-53 into a -72. That's an awful lot of work for a small gain. With apologies towards whom this will probably annoy, I think I can live with my representation being a little short. I realize it won't be all that accurate, but I just like the livery on the the NASA DC-8. So, I'll stick with my original plan to put the CFM-56 engines I already have on the DC-8-53 and paint it up like the NASA bird. I will however, add the sensor platforms and associated extra antennae I see in photos to the sides of the fuselage and on the top and bottom of the bird. Thank you all very much for the info guys. Please do not feel as though I'm disregarding the advice. I'm not, I know the aircraft will not be a true representation. I've simply decided that a compromise was in order so as to save myself time, effort, and a lot of frustration. I'm still working on the 747/shuttle project, and that's enough surgery on plastic to last me a very, very long time before I ever get an urge to do it again. Plus, I really would like to get one of these kits finished so I can show it to all of you.

Regards,

Paul

Paul, don't forget that the 62 had the extended wing span as well. As I understand your intentions, you are going to wind up with the only series 50 with CFM56s in captivity! Would it perhaps be better to cut down your -63?

Neil

[Paul Mullins]

Paul, don't forget that the 62 had the extended wing span as well. As I understand your intentions, you are going to wind up with the only series 50 with CFM56s in captivity! Would it perhaps be better to cut down your -63?

Neil

Hi Neil,

Yeah, it probably would be better to cut the -63 down to the -72 length due to the extended wingspan in terms of accuracy on the model itself. Except I already have the Flying Tiger livery planned out for the -63, and the -53 needs something special I think. But I'll tell you, that PanAm livery is looking better and better. The only problem is that PanAm as far as I can tell only ever operated the -30 series. By the way. Thank you for putting the extra DC-10 windows in the KC-10 kit. The decals in both kits look great. I've been experimenting with the kits, learning how to get the best alignment and look for them. I'm slowly making progress. I may have to take the 747 apart again to realign the hull in order to resolve the problem with the tail.

Regards,

Paul

[tnuag]

Hi Neil,

Yeah, it probably would be better to cut the -63 down to the -72 length due to the extended wingspan in terms of accuracy on the model itself. Except I already have the Flying Tiger livery planned out for the -63, and the -53 needs something special I think. But I'll tell you, that PanAm livery is looking better and better. The only problem is that PanAm as far as I can tell only ever operated the -30 series. By the way. Thank you for putting the extra DC-10 windows in the KC-10 kit. The decals in both kits look great. I've been experimenting with the kits, learning how to get the best alignment and look for them. I'm slowly making progress. I may have to take the 747 apart again to realign the hull in order to resolve the problem with the tail.

Regards,

Paul

Hi Paul,

Simple solution - do everything bar the engines. By the time you get there we may have got the right engines produced and we can send you a set. Who knows we may even do Pan Am decals...

Regards

Neil

[Paul Mullins]

Have stopped the 747 for a while to investigate issues I now realize I've created with the kit. So, I've been working with the DC-10 kit in an attempt to figure out what I did wrong with the 747. The DC-10 kit is coming along swimmingly, and I will post an update here soon. I've also begun to figure out what I did wrong with the 747, and I have come to the unhappy realization that I must for the second time, take the hull apart. ^_^

Paul

[Anthony in NZ]

Oh yes Paul, I would love to see your DC-10!

I am sorry to hear about your 747, but as frustrating as it is, if you are anything like me then you wont rest untill it is fixed.

Cheers

Anthony

[tnuag]

Hi Paul,

What caused the mis-alignment? Remember we can always send spare parts if necessary. I am not going to send the SCA items until we have done the resin fairing for the shuttle.

Neil

[Paul Mullins]

Hi Anthony,

You're so right sir. I won't stop until I find a solution to the problem. Which is what caused me to begin work on the DC-10 so I could possibly determine what I did wrong with the 747. Well then, on to the update.

As many of you may know, I've become a huge fan of Aircraft in Miniature Limited's 1/72nd scale airliner kits and have bought all of the different models available. I have the 747, DC-10. KC-10, DC-8-53 and the DC-8-63. (also called the Super 63). While building the 747, after I got the hull together, I noticed a problem with the overall shape of the "bump" behind the flight deck. I also came to the realization that the hull was warped. This issue became really obvious when I attempted to open the sides of the aft structure to insert the horizontal stabilizers. I decided to start on the DC-10 kit because all of AIM's 1/72 airliner kits are essentially constructed in the same manner. So, after working on the DC-10 hull for a while, I have the following observations to report. And I have to take the 747 hull apart again. (This will be the third time, not the second as I previously stated. I forgot about the time I had to take the hull apart to adjust the keel, and I still didn't get it right). :)

There are two sets of decals that come with the DC-10 and the KC-10. The individual liveries, and a separate sheet of windows and doors. The first photo is the British Caledonian set that comes in the DC-10 kit. You can see some of the window decals have the inner shades pulled down to different heights. I think this will give the aircraft that "lived in" look.

The next photo is the KC-10 set. It has the decals for the initial "airliner" delivery colors of white over grey with blue trim, and the current AMC dark grey scheme. It also has the window decals if someone wants to do a KDC-10 from the Netherlands. I think that's a great sense of planning ahead on Neils part.

So, next up is the left side of the hull.

Followed by the right side with the portions cut away to fit the number 2 engine exhaust into place.

A close up of the tail cutaway,

And, with the engine exhaust fitted.

Just for the sake of the conversation, a shot of the DC-8-53 with the -63. The hull of the -63 is just about six and a half inches longer than the -53. In real life the -63 is 36 feet longer than the -53 with a 20 foot plug in front of the wing and a 16 foot plug behind the wing. In my world, the -63 is going to become a Flying Tigers livery, and the -53 may yet become a Pan Am jet if the plans for the NASA -72 version don't work out.

So, for those of you waiting to see what's what, now you know. Go get the kits. Whichever one you want. I can tell you that the resin engines are beautiful. The DC-10 engines come with an option to use either the old style or the new style exhaust tips.

The engines themselves are far more detailed than the 747 kit, and are actually their own model kits by themselves. This next photo is the engines just stacked together for a beauty shot.

So, there we are. I've learned that if you think you're done sanding the hull parts, you're actually about halfway there. If you think you've sanded too much away, you should be just about right.

Neil, I realize that I did not properly shape the 747 keel. That's what's causing the shape to be off. So, back to the drawing board with that one. I also have to get the old Mark 1 calibrated eyeball re-calibrated. I've also found some Ambroid Pro-weld liquid cement. I'm using it on the DC-10 to see if it works better than regular styrene cement. Ah, the joys of discovery.

Till later,

Paul

Edited May 14, 2010 by Paul Mullins

[tnuag]

Hi Anthony,

You're so right sir. I won't stop until I find a solution to the problem. Which is what caused me to begin work on the DC-10 so I could possibly determine what I did wrong with the 747. Well then, on to the update.

As many of you may know, I've become a huge fan of Aircraft in Miniature Limited's 1/72nd scale airliner kits and have bought all of the different models available. I have the 747, DC-10. KC-10, DC-8-53 and the DC-8-63. (also called the Super 63). While building the 747, after I got the hull together, I noticed a problem with the overall shape of the "bump" behind the flight deck. I also came to the realization that the hull was warped. This issue became really obvious when I attempted to open the sides of the aft structure to insert the horizontal stabilizers. I decided to start on the DC-10 kit because all of AIM's 1/72 airliner kits are essentially constructed in the same manner. So, after working on the DC-10 hull for a while, I have the following observations to report. And I have to take the 747 hull apart again. (This will be the third time, not the second as I previously stated. I forgot about the time I had to take the hull apart to adjust the keel, and I still didn't get it right).

There are two sets of decals that come with the DC-10 and the KC-10. The individual liveries, and a separate sheet of windows and doors. The first photo is the British Caledonian set that comes in the DC-10 kit. You can see some of the window decals have the inner shades pulled down to different heights. I think this will give the aircraft that "lived in" look.

The next photo is the KC-10 set. It has the decals for the initial "airliner" delivery colors of white over grey with blue trim, and the current AMC dark grey scheme. It also has the window decals if someone wants to do a KDC-10 from the Netherlands. I think that's a great sense of planning ahead on Neils part.

So, next up is the left side of the hull.

Followed by the right side with the portions cut away to fit the number 2 engine exhaust into place.

A close up of the tail cutaway,

And, with the engine exhaust fitted.

Just for the sake of the conversation, a shot of the DC-8-53 with the -63. The hull of the -63 is just about six and a half inches longer than the -53. In real life the -63 is 36 feet longer than the -53 with a 20 foot plug in front of the wing and a 16 foot plug behind the wing. In my world, the -63 is going to become a Flying Tigers livery, and the -53 may yet become a Pan Am jet if the plans for the NASA -72 version don't work out.

So, for those of you waiting to see what's what, now you know. Go get the kits. Whichever one you want. I can tell you that the resin engines are beautiful. The DC-10 engines come with an option to use either the old style or the new style exhaust tips.

The engines themselves are far more detailed than the 747 kit, and are actually their own model kits by themselves. This next photo is the engines just stacked together for a beauty shot.

So, there we are. I've learned that if you think you're done sanding the hull parts, you're actually about halfway there. If you think you've sanded too much away, you should be just about right.

Neil, I realize that I did not properly shape the 747 keel. That's what's causing the shape to be off. So, back to the drawing board with that one. I also have to get the old Mark 1 calibrated eyeball re-calibrated. I've also found some Ambroid Pro-weld liquid cement. I'm using it on the DC-10 to see if it works better than regular styrene cement. Ah, the joys of discovery.

Till later,

Paul

Hi Paul, you are having a time with the 747 keel - never forget spares are available if all else fails! On the subject of glue, I never buy any, I just use cellulose thinners which we buy in 5 gallon drums.

Coming back to that keel, if possible just put it into the female half of the fuselage and let it find its own position, then clip the keel to the fuselage (I use small spring clips). With all the clips in place, flood the joint with liquid glue.

Good luck!

Neil