jonbryon Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I see that Cybermodeler has a 'review' up of Trumpy's new F-100D in 1/48. Any of you F-100 guys have any comments? I know about the generic problems from the F-100C, but would like to know if the D model has a more accurate tail. Thanks Jon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 (edited) Looks like they swapped out the F-100C wing sprue for one with the D wing, and changed the section of the fuselage mold that has the aft fuselage to give it the D tail. That would mean that it's got all the same warts as the C kit (flat bottomed intake, too-shallow gear wells, too fat main gear struts, too large wheels, etc.), but at least it's got a correct F-100D cockpit. The instrument panel is too big, though. The part that's supposed to be the F-102 afterburner nozzle isn't included because it's on the C wing sprue, but it wasn't really that good, anyway. The inboard main gear doors will need to have the small moving panel cut out and repositioned, unless you're building an early D with the narrow-cutout speed brake. You'll need to find something else to hang under the wings since the TERs were only carried by a small number of modified Ds and the ECM pod included was only carried by a D on a test flight at Eglin AFB. The drop tanks are the short 275-gal type, so you'll need to modify them to the 335-gal type for a post-1964 jet. The tail fairing & instrument panel are for a non-RHAWS jet, as opposed to Monogram's, which has the wider RHAWS fairing and azimuth display on top of the IP glare shield. Monogram did leave off the under nose antenna fairing, though. The good stuff is you get Sidewinder missile pylons, centerline pylon, and the early speed brake with the narrow cutout. So, IMHO (worth exactly what you pay for it! ) is that you'll get a model that looks like an F-100D from a distance, has the Sacred Scribed Panel Lines, and that is easier to build than the Monogram kit, but if you want the most accurate F-100 (of any version, in any scale), the 30+ year old Monogram kit is still the best. Also, if you have a scrapped Monogram kit lying around, you can use its much better drop tanks, wheels, main gear struts to fix some of what's wrong with the Trumpeter kit. BTW, the Monogram nose piece will not fit the Trumpeter kit, due to the different shapes of the two kits. I'd imagine just about everything aftermarket made for the Monogram kit can be adapted to the Trumpeter kit, and I know there are some really cool decals on the way, too. I've got to run, but I'll post a more detailed update with some fix-it suggestions later, if anyone is interested. Cheers! Ben Edited March 18, 2010 by Ben Brown Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonbryon Posted March 18, 2010 Author Share Posted March 18, 2010 Thanks Ben. I'm always interested in more detailed analysis. Where I am, the F-100C retails for $25, which is quite reasonable. I can live with all the faults (especially as I don't generally model ordnance or underwing stores), except the tail. If the D has a correct tail, I'll almost certainly buy one. I imagine correct wheels will be released eventually and I can always hold out for a Monogram kit for the undercarriage. The nose is unfortunate, but I can accept it. Jon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I think the kit is probably worth about 25 bucks. Sure as hell isn't $25-30 better than the Monogram kit. This might be of some use: The resin parts to convert the Monogram 275-gal tanks to 335s (from AMS Resin and Missing Link) will not fit the Trumpeter tanks, because the Trump tanks are too fat. Use Monogram tanks with the conversions or some Fox 3 Studios ( gmasher(at)netzero(dot)net ) tanks with the kit pylons. Legend had some complete 335s, but I haven't seen them and to be honest, I haven't been all that impressed with anything else they've done. The nose can be improved by heating the lower part with hot water and bending it to shape. Sand the top of the lip back a little so it's more vertical. The panel line for the nose needs to be moved forward to the row of rivets that's about 3mm forward of the current panel line, then extend the front part of the pitot tube mount to match (don't move the tube forward, just extend the mount). Use the center section of the Monogram instrument panel, a panel from Eduard's old PE set for the Monogram kit (48-183), or wait 'til they release a color PE set for the Trump kit. If you're building a jet up through serial number 55-2783 (includes all Ds operated by foreign air forces), keep the one-piece inboard main gear doors and use the speed brake with the narrow cutout. If you don't have access to a Monogram kit, pick up some of the metal struts from Scale Aircraft Conversions. Be sure to get the ones meant for the Monogram kit. They'll fit, but you'll have to make a spacer for the socket, since the Monogram struts are quite a bit thinner. Put them as far outboard in the socket as you can, since Trumpeter has the struts placed too far inboard. I don't know if they fixed it or not from the C (probably not), but you'll have to add some guns to the model. The muzzles should be visible in the troughs. The part that they have you glue to the deck behind the seat should go up inside the canopy. Its too narrow to fit, so you'll have to widen it with some styrene. The canopy doesn't have any way to mount it open, so you'll have to do a little scratchbuilding there. HTH. Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonbryon Posted March 18, 2010 Author Share Posted March 18, 2010 Thanks again Ben. Extremely helpful. Since I wouldn't use drop tanks and I'd close the canopy (I nearly always do on every kit), I may be able to get away with a little less modification, but the advice on the nose, undercarriage and serial numbers with the narrow speedbrake cutout is really useful. Cheers Jon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Harold Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I am working on the D 'pit parts right now. I have it about half finished. The joystick, pedals and gunsight are completed. The seat needs a little more work. The rear deck and canopy decking are in the works. I am hoping that I will have them ready by the end of next week. Cheers, Harold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThePhantomTwo Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I am working on the D 'pit parts right now. I have it about half finished. The joystick, pedals and gunsight are completed. The seat needs a little more work. The rear deck and canopy decking are in the works.I am hoping that I will have them ready by the end of next week. Cheers, Harold Excellent!I'm picking my kit up from the post office in a few hours! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThePhantomTwo Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Picked it up about an hour ago,haven't ripped into the plastic yet but looks decent so far.Ben covered most the nits so far but it does have a few things I like and a few minor things I don't but Harold is taking care of most of them The rest I can take care of with the Monogram Hum parts yard and a little scratch building(hopefully Aires will do a F-102 burner can for it).The one thing I know the kit needs is better decals,the Trump ones aren't bad but......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VADM Fangschleister Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I looked over the sprue shots at CM and it looks pretty good. As for the standard issues, most are fixable either with kitbashed Monogram parts or AM on the way via Harold and others. The Aires exhaust looks very nice and the only odd issue that confuses me completely is the F-102 exhaust that they molded with the "C" wing. Must've gotten their wires crossed on that. Those main gear wheels do look almost cartoonish because of the size so....Monogram, again. Or AM. And, likewise with the intake shape. I may have to cast some Monogram intakes for the future. Given that this kit is almost a "blank slate", the potential for a really obnoxious amount of detailing is possible. I like the two pitot booms and two refueling probes. But mostly, it's the engraved panel detail that's the big seller with me. Has anyone noted if that detail is accurate? I'm just curious and it's not a deal-breaker for me....I was just wondering. The potentially biggest problem I have is the price. For that kind of money, I dare say I'd expect Tamigawa quality. However, I'm personally glad to see a recessed panel line "D" and look forward to the "F". For all the FastFac wanna-builders...it'll be a long wait satisfied. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Harold Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I looked over the sprue shots at CM and it looks pretty good. As for the standard issues, most are fixable either with kitbashed Monogram parts or AM on the way via Harold and others. The Aires exhaust looks very nice and the only odd issue that confuses me completely is the F-102 exhaust that they molded with the "C" wing. Must've gotten their wires crossed on that. Those main gear wheels do look almost cartoonish because of the size so....Monogram, again. Or AM. And, likewise with the intake shape. I may have to cast some Monogram intakes for the future. Given that this kit is almost a "blank slate", the potential for a really obnoxious amount of detailing is possible. I like the two pitot booms and two refueling probes. But mostly, it's the engraved panel detail that's the big seller with me. Has anyone noted if that detail is accurate? I'm just curious and it's not a deal-breaker for me....I was just wondering. The potentially biggest problem I have is the price. For that kind of money, I dare say I'd expect Tamigawa quality. However, I'm personally glad to see a recessed panel line "D" and look forward to the "F". For all the FastFac wanna-builders...it'll be a long wait satisfied. The Mono nose isn't going to work for you. The Trump HUN is a bit narrower and flatter than the Mono nose. Like Ben said, you can heat it up and force it open a bit. It does work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VADM Fangschleister Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 The Mono nose isn't going to work for you. The Trump HUN is a bit narrower and flatter than the Mono nose. Like Ben said, you can heat it up and force it open a bit. It does work. Yeah, I kinda figured. However, not to be beaten just yet...I might make one out of epoxy putty, carve it all pretty and see what that does. How hard can it be? I have me a pocket knife and my TLAR measuring tool... Seriously, though, the squashed intake is always a bit of a turn off for me. However, the joy of modeling comes with the midnight engineering and figuring out how to solve such a problem. Harold knows that as does Chris Wilson and others to the Nth degree. So maybe I'll see what I can come up with...but I have my Hustler calling me. When the "D" comes in the mail, I'll have a look. Otherwise, I'm pretty excited. Hope the F is realeased soon, too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 As for the standard issues, most are fixable either with kitbashed Monogram parts or AM on the way via Harold and others. "Standard issues" - I love that line! It's Trumpeter, so we naturally assume it has "standard issues" right out of the gate. Here's a really wild thought - what if Trumpeter came out with a kit that you didn't have to kitbash, modify, or add a gazillion resin parts to just to attempt to make it what the box top says it is. Am I just being a wild man, or what? Imagine it though. Wild, eh? ;) J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 "Standard issues" - I love that line! It's Trumpeter, so we naturally assume it has "standard issues" right out of the gate. Here's a really wild thought - what if Trumpeter came out with a kit that you didn't have to kitbash, modify, or add a gazillion resin parts to just to attempt to make it what the box top says it is. Am I just being a wild man, or what? Imagine it though. Wild, eh? J Maybe we're looking at this all wrong. Maybe we should be saying, "Trumpeter has just released a $50 backdate set for the Mongram kit, that gives us Sidewinders, some nice-looking inflight refueling probes, and an early speed brake. Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThePhantomTwo Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 (edited) Well,so much for my comparision post,every one has made thier mind up already regardless. Maybe we should all just build the ultra accurate and fantastic fitting ESCI/Scalecraft 1/48 F-100 kit instead <_< Edited March 20, 2010 by ThePhantomTwo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Well,so much for my comparision post,every one has made thier mind up already regardless. I think there's a good bit of information here for you as far as I can see. And yep, some of us had made up our minds before even seeing the Trumpeter kit. There are very, very few exceptions to my rule that Trumpeter gets no more of my money. I didn't buy AMC automobiles for the same reason... J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VADM Fangschleister Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 (edited) I didn't buy AMC automobiles for the same reason...J There are crushed Corinthians everywhere... Well, except for the cost of the kit, I'm kind of jazzed that there's a recessed panel line Hun in quarter-scale. "Standard issues" notwithstanding, they are mostly workable, though I understand the frustrating position of "why should we have to"? Ya pays a lotta munnies and this is whuts ya gets? I suppose the argument could go til the sun burns out and will never be completely settled but I will admit it's been a long time since I've opened a new kit and said "WOW". As in, "Wow, this is superb!" The Tamiya 1/48 F-16 did that for me. In most cases, my tastes are getting so eclectic that I'm just glad to have a kit of something that looks like what I want to build. Going Pig's route, if it's not available, there's nothing stopping me from creating it out of thin air. That is, barring my own ineptitude and lack of skills. If you want inspiration, go to YouTube and watch the videos on the guy in Texas building an RC B-1B. It should be ready to fly soon but there is still much to do. But for us miniature kit builders, I remember the old Jo-Hann kits where there's a neat picture of the plane on the box and when you open it up, you have to CARVE the thing out of wood. Yikes. I have to admit, I'm sympathetic to the folks who say "gee whiz" when the kit doesn't live up to potential or, in this case, its pricetag. That's a lot of money for a kit that needs some significant fixes right out of the box. Edited March 20, 2010 by VADM Fangschleister Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmanrick Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 I think there's a good bit of information here for you as far as I can see. And yep, some of us had made up our minds before even seeing the Trumpeter kit. There are very, very few exceptions to my rule that Trumpeter gets no more of my money. I didn't buy AMC automobiles for the same reason...J Your thoughts vis a vis Trumpeter are fine, after all it is your right to spend your money however you like. Judging from what you've written I think it a likely conclusion that you haven't purchased a Trumpy kit in a good while, if ever. So why the need to continually provide nonconstructive, negative commentary on a product you have already said you wouldn't buy under any circumstances? Are you trying to improve the product or simply knocking it to satisfy your grudge? Criticism I can handle (as I've said ad nauseum), Ben (among others) was critical of the kit and I appreciated his criticism because he also provided valuable advice about how to possibly fix the kit if one was so inclined and also was forthright about what couldn't be fixed. However, your criticism is simply annoying as it borders on repetitiveness and whining. Also, I'm not quite sure what AMC has to do with this, as I'm quite sure your decision to avoid their products had nothing whatsoever to do with their ultimate demise? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 (edited) Well,so much for my comparision post,every one has made thier mind up already regardless.Maybe we should all just build the ultra accurate and fantastic fitting ESCI/Scalecraft 1/48 F-100 kit instead <_< Sorry, Dave, my last post was a (weak) attempt at humor. [Deleted.] Ben Edited March 20, 2010 by Ben Brown Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThePhantomTwo Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 And my last post was a bit of humor as well,who in thier right mind would want to build the ESCI Hun! I kinda like the Trumpeter kit,it has potential and it is most likely the last new Hun(s) we'll see produced.To me,even with it's flaws,the Trumpeter kit is going to be easier to correct than bringing the Monogram kit up to *my* standards. After looking at my Monogram F-100 intakes(both intakes I still have are on thier sprues,one being the original release and the other being the recent release)and the Trumpeter one,it surprised me that the Trumpeter intake is nearly(not exact though) the same shape as the two Monogram one's I have,the Monogram one being *maybe* 1-2mm deeper with a *nearly* flat bottom,to me,neither kit has the gentle deeper curve of the real one.These builds in the galleries show the Monogram intakes: http://www.arcair.com/Gal2/1201-1300/Gal12...0_Hawkey/04.jpg http://www.arcair.com/Fea1/801-900/Fea848_Hui_F-100/01.jpg http://www.arcair.com/Gal3/2101-2200/Gal2118_F-100_Fu/07.jpg http://www.arcair.com/Gal3/2501-2600/Gal25...100_Wood/01.jpg http://www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/kor...jackson100c.jpg http://www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/kor...jackson100l.jpg Compared to the real thing,from the walk-around section and the internet: http://www.arcair.com/AWA1/101-200/walk178...TB6%20Front.jpg http://www.arcair.com/AWA1/101-200/walk178...TB-6%20Nose.jpg http://www.f-100.info/images/f-100d_53770-2.jpg http://www.f-100.info/images/cutshall_f-100f_lnose2.jpg (wow,look,rivets!) Ok,so the Mono kit has a flat lower intake lip as well,not nearly curved as the real thing,the Trumpeter kit is flatter and should be a touch deeper.Comparing both,the Monogram intake is better but not exact either. The Monogram kit has good detail but not at all crisp in the releases I have,both look like a quarter inch of wax have been sprayed in the wheel wells,cockpit,gunbays,ect.,leaving soft detailing(most older Monogram kits I have are the same).The Trumpeter kit is light(but crisp) on detail in areas(Harolds upcoming cockpit will be a god send for the kit)but gives the basics and can detailed by the modeler himself with decent references or can get the Aires/Eduard/AMS sets as they come available.Both kits don't come with the longer 335 tanks,just the shorter 275's.The Trump inner and outer pylons are void of any panel lines. Mind you,I do like the reccesed panel lines better,I've built the Monogram kit twice before in the last 30 years and lost most fuselage detailing to the wicked mid-fuselage seams(a scribed fuselage and raised panel wing looks odd to me,hence doing the whole kit),I don't mind scribing but after re-scribing a couple of Hun's,Thunderchiefs,Thunderstreaks,ect.,if at all possible I'll avoid scribing a entire kit again. I like both kits,both have pro's and con's and both are completely buildable. I'll try to get some pics up in the next day or two. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 You're right, the Monogram nose is a bit flat on the bottom. It's got just enough curvature so it doesn't look way off. The trick to beating the killer seam on the sides of the fuselage is to leave the wings off. Makes getting the joint right a lot easier. I think by the time I rescribe the panel lines, I would have spent the same amount of time fixing the nose, and a few other issues. It will be interesting to see how the model "sits." I've been fighting the 1/32 kit, even turning the Renaissance wheels down to the correct diameter, and the model only has a couple of degrees nose up attitude. I think the struts might be too long. The drop tanks on the 1/32 kit are about 3mm too large in diameter, but the pylon is right, and the bottom of the tank only comes down to the top of the tire, where on the Monogram kit, i's almost to the top of the wheel hub. Probably wil be the same on the 1/48 kits. I'm on hold, waiting for decals, so I'll probably dig into the 1/48 C tomorrow. Unless my wife decides we're doing more yard work.... B) Cheers! Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Blackwell Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 (edited) I have a D and F on order at my LHS, so I appreciate Ben's info on how to fix the problems on these kits. I have put together a few of the Mongoram kits over the years, and I finished my 1/32 D model (OOB but with Harold's pit) a little over a year ago. I enjoy the information exchange here about making these kits workable, and look forward to putting the work into them. Can't wait for them to show up. Dave Edited March 21, 2010 by David Blackwell Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Harold Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Hey Ben, Did you get another box yet? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Hey Ben,Did you get another box yet? Oh, s***! I got it Friday, and then I got distracted and forgot to let you know. The parts look great! Thanks! Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Harold Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Oh, s***! I got it Friday, and then I got distracted and forgot to let you know. ;) The parts look great!Thanks! Ben Super Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Harold Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 (edited) I forgot to mention that you should take a closer look at the gunsight on the little HUN as well...... Edited March 21, 2010 by Harold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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