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Is modeling not as popular as it use to be?


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Someone willing to take a loss for a very long time making kits, selling kits, and promoting them at great cost through high-quality, big-ticket, popular media. Over time--not months, not years, but possibly decades, build up a consumer base. But this means you need a very wealthy and media-savvy Rich Aunt or Uncle.

And with that said, I agree that Wingnut's products are very impressive, moreso now that Hyperscale has the whole story.

“I’m determined to keep the hobby aspect going, which is why we are not driven by market forces and profit – it would then become something I don’t want it to be." --Sir Peter Jackson.

He's crazy! Crazy enough to be a genius! Upon reading this, I resolved to start building 1/32nd scale World War I kits. I'd like to see him pleasantly surprised when, despite his disclaiming of market motive, he accidentally turns a profit!

Oh, and by the way...

Thanks for posting the link regarding Wingnut Wings. I start reading, then visit the site, then order the Albatros. Now, thanks to you, I'm going to have to explain to my wife why I've ordered another model when "You haven't finished the one's you already have".

Jerk

:thumbsup:

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Oh, and by the way...

Thanks for posting the link regarding Wingnut Wings. I start reading, then visit the site, then order the Albatros. Now, thanks to you, I'm going to have to explain to my wife why I've ordered another model when "You haven't finished the one's you already have".

Jerk

:bandhead2:

Hey, the FW190A8/R2 is the main reason I want to finish off this B17G for my Boss. And I want to do a Diorama with a 20mm Flakverling 38

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As opposed to a painted plastic toy that impresses no one but other modelers and maybe a few military history nerds? What happens to all these models? Eventually landfills, mostly. Maybe we give them away to people obliging enough to take them. Maybe we sell them, if they're good. But let's face it, they're about as useful as bowling trophies, completed crossword puzzles, and already-read cheap paperback novels. I love building models but I don't kid myself about their inherent value.

What you get out of better video games with decent storytelling is often the same thing you get from reading fiction or watching movies. Frankly, I think the writing in some games is better than anything in recent movies or television. The World War II games, if well done, have potential to teach you more than building plastic toys.

I don't view models as "plastic painted toys." They are authentic replicas of the machines that influenced the course of history. They are miniature museum pieces, with all of the educational aspects that go along with researching and building them. They also reward patience and attention to detail. However, I will admit that their appeal is limited to a certain segment of the population.

The fact that many people are not impressed does not surprise me. Joe six pack leads a relatively average life, focused on work, providing for family, maintaining his house, and watching some sports on TV.

The fact that most stuff on TV is crap is also no surprise because the entertainment moguls want to cast as wide as net as possible to bring in the most money. The LCD usually wins out.

Video games are yet another appeal to a society that has lost its ability to "slow down." We expect to be constantly entertained or we lose interest. The eye candy and action are what make video games popular. Most are just a glorified rat's maze that you work your way through.

I will concede that some of the simulations have a significant educational component, but by and large, I think they are mostly useless fluff. A good book is probably one's best investment intellectually.

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Video games are yet another appeal to a society that has lost its ability to "slow down." We expect to be constantly entertained or we lose interest. The eye candy and action are what make video games popular. Most are just a glorified rat's maze that you work your way through.

No argument on the books or TV. But by themselves, plastic models are essentially sculpture-by-number. It is the modeler who engages in creative problem-solving, as when I find better ways to do things than what's printed in the instructions, or history, as when I research aspects of aviation history. But the best of video games are the same. Actually, I consider flight sims generally to not be the best of video games. While they can give you a basic understanding of what's involved in the real thing, and better sims even introduce you to mission planning, air battle coordination, and so on, I think games' best potential is in ground or naval power tactics and leadership, or demonstration of historical military history problems. Even the 'rat-in-the-maze' style games (First Person Shooters) can display, in brutal terms, the problems associated in urban warfare. Indeed, as to being "constantly entertained," games can have extraordinarily frustrating problems that gamers are forced to work through in order to make progress, involving "patience and attention to detail." I think it comes down to how much exposure one has to video games, because a lot of what people think about them is based on looking at a limited segment of the market. Stereotypes are usually based on such impressions. The same problem happens with plastic modeling; other people fail to see the value because they have a narrow view of what's involved in building them, or even of the history they represent.

As to games potentially distorting history, plastic modeling as a hobby can do the same, if allowed. The extraordinary attention focused on the technology in general, and in certain aspects of military history such as the Luftwaffe, the Wehrmacht and the SS, strike me as often missing bigger truths about historical importance. As I mentioned in an earlier thread on the subject, I read in an issue of Armor Modeling and Preservation Society's Boresight an interview of Wolfgang Kloth, a German World War II assault-gun crewman. All the modelers wanted to know about dunkelgelb paint, and how to weather tanks, causing Kloth to finally say that latter-day modelers seemed to fret over more detail on the German Army than he ever bothered with when part of it. He didn't paint vehicles. Instead, Kloth remember a can of "Libby" fruit, an American product that he ate as a prisoner of the Soviets. Now that's important. That tells you something about total war, alliances, and who won or lost.

Oh, and by the way...

Thanks for posting the link regarding Wingnut Wings. I start reading, then visit the site, then order the Albatros. Now, thanks to you, I'm going to have to explain to my wife why I've ordered another model when "You haven't finished the one's you already have".

Jerk

Yep. Here at ARC, we're good like that. And if your subsequent conversation with a dismayed spouse goes particularly harsh, tell her that you're trying to save the hobby by supporting a heroic startup. It won't change her mind, but you'll at least feel vindicated. It is exactly that Albatros that I have my eye on. Good looking airplane.

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You guys should get off your high horses, and ditch the idea that video games only offer instant gratification for kids today. It is not true. Have you ever tried collecting every single coin in a Mario game? Now that's a feat that requires tremendous attention to detail and problem solving abilities.

Is scale modelling not as popular as before? Of course it is not, but that's because there are far more choices of entertainment today. What's wrong with having choices? And for those of us who choose to stick with scale modeling, the hobby vendors are tripping over themselves to offer us old geezers with high quality kits and aftermarket accessories. So why is everyone complaining or am I missing something?

I don't think of scale modeling as a declining hobby, I think of it more as one that's getting more sophisticated.

Our hobby is not superior to your son's hobby, or your wife's hobby, or your parents' hobby. So just enjoy yours (while the going is good) and please stop dissing other people's hobbies.

Terry

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just for historical contrast, I'll address something that comes up in these threads quite often

model building was NOT in the dark ages during the '60's and 70's,,,,,,,it was expanding at breakneck speed back then

we had guys doing builds in magazines like Lee Scow,,,,and magazines like Airfix magazine showing us detailed conversions from base Airfix kits,,,,,they also did photo articles that showed us "new versions" of things like F-4D's (with noses that looked like J's),,,some later decals were based on Airfix mag photos

to stay strictly plastic, we were taught how to do "non vacuum" plastic forming with balsa masters and acetate sheet

and if you had one near you, the hobby shops had a lot of built up models in display cases, almost none of which was built OOB

after Airfix hit the states, and Revell expanded their line,,,,,,this strange company called Hasegawa started being sold in AMT boxes,,,,,some of them with decals based on the Airfix or Profile booklets,,,,,and companies like Squadron and Microscale by Krasel Industries gave us things like the Decal system and imported kits, etc

most of what is "just there for us now" was first brought to us in the late 60's and early 70's,,,,,,hardly the "dark ages",,,,,sure, companies have come and gone since then, but that's happened in every retail field, not just modeling

all of this happened before I turned 18 in 1975,,,,and it was just as fun then as it is now

oh, and "the hobby is dying" was a topic overheard while I was buying Floquil RR to mix aircraft colors with, while trying to figure out how to keep that paint from eating the plastic

the other topic that gets mentioned a lot is pricing,,,,,,,,and the truth to that one is simple,,,,,,,go take a look at some release from less than a year ago at one of the "hated companies",,,,,,,and see what's already OOP, lol,,,,,,,,that tells me that someone bought them all before you or I got one

marketing says "if it sold out,,,it was priced right"

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It's also worth pointing out that just because we have more products available today isn't necessarily a sign of health, in terms of whether any of us will be able to afford these kits and still will be building in say, 10 or 20 years from now. If we have product diversification, that's good for us now. But that happens in a lot of industries. We've got six zillion cable TV channels while the cable providers are facing serious dangers from web content and a la carte services that might be provided through future wireless networks started by companies not now in media distribution. After all, the finest streetcars ever made were purchased by transit companies already in frighteningly bad shape, as businesses, and some even in bankruptcy!

Wow, this last post is even too gloomy for me. :cheers:

Yea, we gotta find a way to get models back as some sort of lasting, deep-rooted fad among the general population. Somehow a "nerd-cool" kind of thing.

Edited by Fishwelding
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You guys should get off your high horses, and ditch the idea that video games only offer instant gratification for kids today. It is not true. Have you ever tried collecting every single coin in a Mario game? Now that's a feat that requires tremendous attention to detail and problem solving abilities.

I hear you. Getting all the trophies for a PS3 game is no instant gratification either. I am playing a game now that has both PS3 trophies AND has in game medals and ribbons.. only a couple of which coincide.

I bought a model for my nephew for christmas and I plan on buying him another for his birthday. My younger nephew is not quite old enough but when he is, he'll get some too. If you are concerned with the future, then do something about it now.

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You know, my last post over in the FSM vote thread just got me to thinking. Why is it that we bellyache about the fact that kids won't build models, and yet there are no plastic kits, to my knowledge at least, of equipment from HALO, or Mass Effect? Honestly, that we have competing P-39 kits is great for us military nerds, but having more than one new-tool also-ran World War II fighter (to say nothing of the still-quite-nice Monogram kit) that most people under 25--no, 55--have never heard of seems hilarious. And that's not saying anything about how many FW-190 kits we have.

Moebius, this is all you. A big-scale Master Chief model, just like your Iron Man kits. Or from any of the other long-running, highly successful game franchises. Look, I'm not saying they'll sell as well as the games do, but if properly marketed, I'll bet they'll blow the doors of a F9F panther kit, or a Panzer III kit. And the more kits you sell, the cheaper kits can become. And if model kit companies are more profitable, they can afford to continue supporting kits perhaps slightly less profitable. And if people --kids--come into hobby shops to buy one kind of model, they may get interested in other kinds, once they know such even exists.

Edited by Fishwelding
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Moebius, this is all you. A big-scale Master Chief model, just like your Iron Man kits. Or from any of the other long-running, highly successful game franchises. Look, I'm not saying they'll sell as well as the games do, but if properly marketed, I'll bet they'll blow the doors of a F9F panther kit, or a Panzer III kit. And the more kits you sell, the cheaper kits can become. And if model kit companies are more profitable, they can afford to continue supporting kits perhaps slightly less profitable. And if people --kids--come into hobby shops to buy one kind of model, they may get interested in other kinds, once they know such even exists.

So true - a few years ago Academy came out with kits of Starcraft characters. Mainly due to the insane following that game has in Korea. Take the top selling games from the last few years and you can get some cool models. Even reboxing some models as say "Call of Duty Models" would work. I know I would throw down money for a Fallout 3 powered armor model or the vertibird.

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<...> I think it comes down to how much exposure one has to video games, because a lot of what people think about them is based on looking at a limited segment of the market. Stereotypes are usually based on such impressions. The same problem happens with plastic modeling; other people fail to see the value because they have a narrow view of what's involved in building them, or even of the history they represent.

<...>

:jaw-dropping:

You guys should get off your high horses, and ditch the idea that video games only offer instant gratification for kids today. It is not true. Have you ever tried collecting every single coin in a Mario game? Now that's a feat that requires tremendous attention to detail and problem solving abilities. <...>

Exactly! :thumbsup: Some games require a fair level of frustration resistance. STALKER, for example, has some design flaws and some gameplay flaws and starts out rather slowly, but overall it's a great game. The story-telling and atmosphere are fantastic.

Regarding the instant gratification argument, I don't know how it is with other modellers, but I love every step of making a model. Some more so than others, but at the end of the day, model building is instant gratification to me. From the first cuts on the sprues to applying the last decal.

You know, my last post over in the FSM vote thread just got me to thinking. Why is it that we bellyache about the fact that kids won't build models, and yet there are no plastic kits, to my knowledge at least, of equipment from HALO, or Mass Effect? Honestly, that we have competing P-39 kits is great for us military nerds, but having more than one new-tool also-ran World War II fighter (to say nothing of the still-quite-nice Monogram kit) that most people under 25--no, 55--have never heard of seems hilarious. And that's not saying anything about how many FW-190 kits we have. <...>

Great idea! :thumbsup: I figure it's licensing fees that may put an end to that idea before it can even manage to take off. On the other hand, the Japanese, for my understanding, seem to be much more open-minded in that regard. Great kits of popular subjects from games or cartoons. And in a vast price range. From Gundam mechs for only a couple of dollars to kits that will make the prices we'd gripe about seem downright cheap.

Don't know why it is different here. Maybe modelling has a "nerdy" air about it. Maybe those in charge don't think it would sell. I, for one, would love some models or figures from several games. Haven't played HALO, but I think a Master Chief kit would sell great! Or the nano suit from Crysis. Gordon Freeman of Half-Life fame. Or think about figure kits of some popular World of Warcraft characters. There must be some money left to make there.

It seems to work he other way round. The tabletop strategy games Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 have been adapted into pretty good computer games.

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