Frankhenrylee Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 Seems to be a few different products for this and different ideas as far as application. Does anyone have something that they feel is just plain better( products and/or application styles)? Also ring in if you feel that a certain tried and true method is still the best way to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Liberator24 Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 Gloss Black, then Alclad Polish Metal......just started to work with it and.....WOWOWOWOWWOWWWWW!!! -Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Triarius Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 The more I use it, the more Hawkeye's Talon Acrylics blow me away. Until they came along, Alclad was the only way to go. I just sold all my Alclad. 'Nuff said. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frankhenrylee Posted April 7, 2010 Author Share Posted April 7, 2010 I've been wondering about those except I've been thinking about the enamels. I haven't had much luck with acylics. I don't know why but it seems like they dry in my airbrush before I can get done painting. Do you use the polishing powder? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tragik Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 The more I use it, the more Hawkeye's Talon Acrylics blow me away. Until they came along, Alclad was the only way to go. I just sold all my Alclad. 'Nuff said. You have me interested at least.. I like they are Acrylics, always worried about the Alclad and it's smell (or possible, never had it) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
metroman Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 Gotta say Alclad 2, though I've never tried the Talon stuff (have long ago used the SNJ before Metalizers) I regard all acrylics as too fragile to deal with (direct personal experience over 20+ yrs. among the majority of NMF finishes) - Alclad can be masked over within 10 minutes and dries rock hard. Fumes? That's what paint booths and window vents are for. To each their own, but I think you'll see the consensus is with Alclad 2. Frank should be chiming in here, see his webpage for awesomeness. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Triarius Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 The solvents in Alclad are nothing you want to breathe or get on your skin, certainly, and they do produce a superior finish. But the Talon acrylics produce just as good a finish. You do have to wait longer to mask over them, or any acrylic. However, when fully cured, they have tremendous adhesion—they aren't fragile at all. The reason Alclad can be masked early and dries "rock hard" is that it is a lacquer, and essentially fuses itself to the plastic. Tip dry is readily handled with a cotton swab dipped in Windex. And I have used the polishing powder. The results are fantastic. Be advised: follow the instructions on Hawkeye's Hobbies web site for application of Talon acrylics. This is critical. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Uncle Uncool Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 Frankhenrylee, mate Nuthin' of the above beats Mona Lisa adhesive + kitchen aluminium foil. This solution is brought to ya courtesy of Larry Shred Thanks a lot, Larry! :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jamie Cheslo Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 No one has mentioned the Tamiya line of NM finishes in the AS spray cans. Silver Leaf, Gloss Aluminum, and Natural Metal (AS-12) are fabulous for various panels and shades. I love using them. And like the alclad, the stuff dries tough as nails because they are lacquers as well. HTH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Av8fan Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) Talon is great. Polishing powder polish Edited April 8, 2010 by Av8fan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thommo Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 I've tried several: 1. Alclad - (over Tamyia lacquer spraycan undercoat) good, but lacquer based so smelly/messy, but the benchmark IMO 2. SnJ - (over Tamyia lacquer spraycan undercoat) not as good as Alclad IMO and lacquer based so smelly/messy. The SnJ polishing powder is useful on small areas, but i've never tried it on a whole model 3. Tamiya AS spraycans - (over Tamyia lacquer spraycan undercoat) - nearly as good as Alclad, much easier to apply, much less mucking about & I use them outside so the smelly issue goes away 4. Tamiya acrylics - pretty good, finish slightly more grainy than Alclad 5. Pollyscale acrylics - a bit better than Tamiya perhaps? 6. Citadel acrylics - a bit better than both Tamiya and Pollyscale perhaps 7. Humbrol enamel - only used this once with a model the kids did, and it was pretty damn good - prob as good as all the acrylics mentioned above. So in conclusion, if i was being really fussy i'd use Alclad, but if i wanted something simpler, an acrylic. Attached pic is my best Alclad result - been so long since i used it though, I've nearly forgotten just what i did! Have to go back thru old ARC posts to remind me Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B-17 guy Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Me personnally, I'm a brush painter so I really cant use alclad. My personal favorite methods are plain old kitchen foil and microscale foil adhesive. OR......Spray it gloss enamel white (or black for tonal variation) and buff in snj powder. Is there an enamel talon paint from hawkeye? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Triarius Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Is there an enamel talon paint from hawkeye? No brushable one. He does sell the SnJ enamel paints, but they are airbrush only. The only brushable metallic I know is Humbrol enamel. None of the brushable acrylic metallics I've tried are worth the bottle they come in. I haven't tried Vallejo's yet, but I will as soon as I get a round toit. All I have at the moment are square, rectangular, and scalenohedral toits. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Old Blind Dog Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Citadel (Games Workshop) Mitrhil Silver, Chain Mail and Bolt Gun brush quite nicely. I thin them with Tamiya X20-A and have achieved consistenly good results (though, admittedly, they're much better through the airbrush). Gunze's aqueous acrylic metallics were (are?) pretty good too if thinned sufficiently (again, with the Tamiya thinner). I generally prefer Alclad II or Tamiya AS/TS colors. cheers Old Blind Dog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thegoodsgt Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 Alclad. Learn about it here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Miccara Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 (edited) Gotta say Alclad 2, though I've never tried the Talon stuff (have long ago used the SNJ before Metalizers) I regard all acrylics as too fragile to deal with (direct personal experience over 20+ yrs. among the majority of NMF finishes) - Alclad can be masked over within 10 minutes and dries rock hard. Fumes? That's what paint booths and window vents are for. To each their own, but I think you'll see the consensus is with Alclad 2. Frank should be chiming in here, see his webpage for awesomeness. I agree for the most part. Alclad 2 is hard to beat for look and durability... but the cost, ouch! Edited April 9, 2010 by Miccara Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Miccara Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 Frankhenrylee, mateNuthin' of the above beats Mona Lisa adhesive + kitchen aluminium foil. This solution is brought to ya courtesy of Larry Shred Thanks a lot, Larry! I agree with Uncle Uncool. He seems to be a wise and insightful person. Besides, you just can't beat aluminum foil (and its easier than painting). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 I agree with Uncle Uncool. He seems to be a wise and insightful person. Besides, you just can't beat aluminum foil (and its easier than painting). I used some Alcad today, and it went on a little splotchy. I was spraying it wet, not misting it, so that might have been the problem. I don't have a lot of experience with NMF. I ended up spraying over it with Testors Metalizer Aluminum Plate, which went on smoother and buffed right up. I realize you can't mask over Metalizer. I am certainly learning a lot on this build. BTW, how the heck do you get foil over compound curves? You say it is EASIER than painting? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Miccara Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 (edited) I used some Alcad today, and it went on a little splotchy. I was spraying it wet, not misting it, so that might have been the problem. I don't have a lot of experience with NMF. I ended up spraying over it with Testors Metalizer Aluminum Plate, which went on smoother and buffed right up. I realize you can't mask over Metalizer. I am certainly learning a lot on this build.BTW, how the heck do you get foil over compound curves? You say it is EASIER than painting? To me, foiling an aircraft is in many ways, easier than painting it. Prep work is much less, finger prints don’t matter, masking isn’t necessary, nothing to clean. If I make a mistake just peel off the piece and try again, if dust or dirt gets under the finish, then peel off the piece and try again. Airbrushing mistake? Just wipe it off and start again. Finally, there is no time pressure. I don’t have a cup of paint to worry about. I can add one piece of foil and then go watch some TV come back an hour later and add one more. It’s a ‘leisure’ job. As a matter of fact I foiled that whole P47D in the "How to build a model airplane" article here on ARC, while watching TV. Just dive in. You'll find that you work out most of the problems and methods pretty quick. The biggest trick is not to get discouraged, just work through it. Edited April 9, 2010 by Miccara Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Uncle Uncool Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 BTW, how the heck do you get foil over compound curves? You say it is EASIER than painting? In addition to the P-47 thread, I would like, if I may, Larry, to share with ya one of the many awesome threads from which I've learnt on this forum. This one's opened "me" eyes with regard to the unbeatable Natural Metal Finish look on airplanes in general, even though I was just looking for a solution to my "Kee-Bird" build. I've totally forgot metaliser paints after this tip. 1/48 Monogram B-29 Foilin' might be a tad hard at first, but in the end, the result is more than worth the effort. There's also a bloke who's foilin' his C-47 somewhere on the In-Progress Pictures section. See whether ya can find that build and ya'll see. Foilin' yer NMF aircraft is a world of difference! Also, I'd use to resort to those expensive Bare Metal Foil sheets before comin' across Larry's tip, and lemme tell ya it's FAR a lot easier to foil round with the Mona Lisa adhesive + Reynold's Wrap foil. Ya've just gotta try. So, Larry; once again, mate Unc² Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frankhenrylee Posted April 9, 2010 Author Share Posted April 9, 2010 In addition to the P-47 thread, I would like, if I may, Larry, to share with ya one of the many awesome threads from which I've learnt on this forum. This one's opened "me" eyes with regard to the unbeatable Natural Metal Finish look on airplanes in general, even though I was just looking for a solution to my "Kee-Bird" build. I've totally forgot metaliser paints after this tip.1/48 Monogram B-29 Foilin' might be a tad hard at first, but in the end, the result is more than worth the effort. There's also a bloke who's foilin' his C-47 somewhere on the In-Progress Pictures section. See whether ya can find that build and ya'll see. Foilin' yer NMF aircraft is a world of difference! Also, I'd use to resort to those expensive Bare Metal Foil sheets before comin' across Larry's tip, and lemme tell ya it's FAR a lot easier to foil round with the Mona Lisa adhesive + Reynold's Wrap foil. Ya've just gotta try. So, Larry; once again, mate Unc² Yeah Larry's the man! I still haven't had the balls to try it yet, but I've got a Mig-15 that I think might be an easier one to try it on. One question though, I seen some parts having the foil done before glueing, I guess you just cut the foil off very neatly to expose some plastic or do you just glue the already covered peices with the Mona Lisa as well? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Miccara Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 Hey Unc2, you're too kind buddy, but thanks!!! FrankHL... I tend to foil sections of the aircraft, sort of panel by panel if you know what I mean. I would suggest for your first attempt, that you build the whole kit first minus pitot tubes, antenna and other fragile things (foil the gear doors before assembling), then foil the the kit as a whole. It's fun and its no where near as difficult as you might think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frankhenrylee Posted April 12, 2010 Author Share Posted April 12, 2010 Hey Unc2, you're too kind buddy, but thanks!!!FrankHL... I tend to foil sections of the aircraft, sort of panel by panel if you know what I mean. I would suggest for your first attempt, that you build the whole kit first minus pitot tubes, antenna and other fragile things (foil the gear doors before assembling), then foil the the kit as a whole. It's fun and its no where near as difficult as you might think. Sorry thought of another question. I've worked with aluminum before but in much thicker sheets. One thing that has me perplexed is how you get it to shrink back up once you've gone around a spot that has stretched it out, like an intake? Do you always try to start in the small areas then work it out into the larger areas? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
metroman Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Mist on layers/coats, never do wet passes for Alclad2. Expensive? You get what you pay for, it is a premium performer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cunumdrum61 Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 (edited) As much as I like Alclad and their range of finishes sometimes I like to work late at night and I really don't want to start painting so I have been using the foil technique and I am pleased with it. My suggestion would be for the first first time in this medium is to grab yourself a Hasegawa P-47 in 32 scale and have a go. Only do not buy the BMF foil as it is crap, use standard kitchen foil and adhesive for gold leaf foil etc. A few hours of practise and you will be much more confident. The Hasegawa 32 scale P-47 is a really good kit to start with as it just the right size to handle without being to small. Edited April 13, 2010 by Cunumdrum61 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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