1st Air Force composite Air Dominance Wing Operational

[Wayne S]

LoL Yep. (I recognize your sarcasm BTW) This is the way wars will be fought forever now. Whatever could replace the RPG? Surely no one would be foolish enough to buy missiles, tanks, ships, or airplanes!

Well they do not need a nuke now, After all we cannot use that against a country who did not use one against USA.

All that is needed is a another new law made, not to over throw Governments, that would make the UN happy. Not like it would be more pleasing to others to attack USA by any chance

[Jonathan_Lotton]

Iran can take their F-4s and other countries can take their MIG-21s, fill them with enough jamming to make the pilot glo on landing, then that fancy new radar in the F-15 will be obsolete.

Aim-120D in HOJ, dead Phantom/MiG.

On a side note, the Tomcats were also G limited towards the end due to airframe life.

[Alex.B]

An AESA radar costs a LOT of money. Really a lot....

Is it worth to spend it on an old and nearly obsolete airframe?? (respect to the F-15.. I love the Eagle.. but time is passing..)

Because is not only the cost of the radar itself, but all that is needed to fit it in the aircraft. (Certifications, system integration.. ecc)

The Super Hornet is ready.. Out Of the Box!

--------------------------

Ok, now more hilarious.. also the Typhoon is ready out of the box! But of course will be impossible that the US Air Force will buy a European made aircraft.. even

if it's the best fighter now available coming after the Raptor.

But what a "Dream Team" will be an Air Wing with Raptors & Typhoons!! :unsure:

[spellbinder99]

Air Dominance Wing.......That come with a leather corset and cat-o-nine tails as well?

Sorry.

Tony

[Jonathan_Lotton]

An AESA radar costs a LOT of money. Really a lot....

Is it worth to spend it on an old and nearly obsolete airframe?? (respect to the F-15.. I love the Eagle.. but time is passing..)

Because is not only the cost of the radar itself, but all that is needed to fit it in the aircraft. (Certifications, system integration.. ecc)

The Super Hornet is ready.. Out Of the Box!

--------------------------

Ok, now more hilarious.. also the Typhoon is ready out of the box! But of course will be impossible that the US Air Force will buy a European made aircraft.. even

if it's the best fighter now available coming after the Raptor.

But what a "Dream Team" will be an Air Wing with Raptors & Typhoons!! :unsure:

The F-15 should have been retired, but the fact is there are not enough Raptors to fill the gap and the F-35 isnt a suitable replacement. Basically the AF is having to "make do" with old airframes and spend the money to update them because they werent able to get the Raptors.

The F-22 is the ounce of prevention, the updated F-15's are the pound of cure, and we're paying for it because frankly there is nothing we can do to the Eagle to make it even close to the Raptor. The Super Hornet is a fine, multi-role aircraft, but not what the USAF needs.

A Raptor/Typhoon pairing would be a dream team..except for wrench turners, logistics, availability of parts, etc etc..so I guess "dream" is a bit of an overstatement.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Jonathan_Lotton

[GreyGhost]

An AESA radar costs a LOT of money. Really a lot....

Is it worth to spend it on an old and nearly obsolete airframe?? (respect to the F-15.. I love the Eagle.. but time is passing..)

Because is not only the cost of the radar itself, but all that is needed to fit it in the aircraft. (Certifications, system integration.. ecc)

The Super Hornet is ready.. Out Of the Box!

--------------------------

Ok, now more hilarious.. also the Typhoon is ready out of the box! But of course will be impossible that the US Air Force will buy a European made aircraft.. even

if it's the best fighter now available coming after the Raptor.

But what a "Dream Team" will be an Air Wing with Raptors & Typhoons!! :unsure:

Well, the USAF *could* buy more Strike Eagles, say the F-15K or F-15SG and just leave the Strike CFTs off and set them up more for an A2A configuration ...

Gregg

[Waco]

Air Dominance Wing

The title is quite misleading. If you read the article, there are no APG-63v3 equipped Eagles co-located with F-22 Wings, and very shortly there will be no mixed F-15/F-22 wings. It mentions that this is the first jet equipped as such, and it is with the Florida ANGs 125th Wing.

From reading the article, I'm not even sure why they brought up the F-22...

[11bee]

Doesn't matter, they'll only be facing IEDs and RPGs anyway.

Regards,

Murph

Sigh.... it does seem that the US has a great and noble track record of being eminently prepared to fight the last war, not the next one. Thank god Bobby Gates is so freaking smart, otherwise I'd be worried.

Let's refurb the last of those F-4's waiting to be used up as drones and field a few hundred "Golden Phantoms" while we are at it.

Regards,

John

[Murph]

Thank god Bobby Gates is so freaking smart, otherwise I'd be worried.

I suspect that in twenty or thirty years people looking back will put him in the same category as McNamara.

Regards,

Murph

[Jonathan_Lotton]

Let's refurb the last of those F-4's waiting to be used up as drones and field a few hundred "Golden Phantoms" while we are at it.

Dont give them any ideas.

[Kei Lau]

The title is quite misleading. If you read the article, there are no APG-63v3 equipped Eagles co-located with F-22 Wings, and very shortly there will be no mixed F-15/F-22 wings. It mentions that this is the first jet equipped as such, and it is with the Florida ANGs 125th Wing.

From reading the article, I'm not even sure why they brought up the F-22...

Did you read the whole article at Aviationweek.com? It is on the operational scenario of the "composite" Air Dominance Wing where the F-22's pair with the F-15C's with AESA radar.

It does not sound like anyone who posted a reply read the article either, thus, so much misinformation.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Kei Lau

[Kei Lau]

A Raptor/Typhoon pairing would be a dream team..except for wrench turners, logistics, availability of parts, etc etc..so I guess "dream" is a bit of an overstatement.

Not all AESA radar are created the same. SELEX got the UK contract to develop the new AESA for Typhoon last year. To enlarge an AESA radar’s field of view, however, there are 2 basic approaches. One involves supplementary radar modules, configured to cover new areas but integrated into a common system. The other, which SELEX Galileo is already pursuing via the Gripen NG’s forthcoming “ES-05 Raven†radar, involves an AESA radar array coupled with mechanical scanning.

Replacing a mechanically scanned array with a fixed AESA mount (such as on the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet) can help reduce an aircraft's overall radar cross-section (RCS), but the SELEX design for the Eurofighter Typhoon forgos this advantage in order to add the limits of mechanically scanning to the limits of electronic scanning and provide a larger angle of coverage. That is why the Typhoon will be a poor choice to pair with the Raptor.

The F/A-18 did get the AESA before the F-15 and had been flying with it for years.

[Jonathan_Lotton]

The F/A-18 did get the AESA before the F-15 and had been flying with it for years.

I mean engines, airframe parts..etc...

Also F-15's were flying with AESA before the F/A-18's did. 18 of Elmo's F-15C's had APG-63(V2)s, AESA's.

[Murph]

The F/A-18 did get the AESA before the F-15 and had been flying with it for years.

Really?

Regards,

Murph

[TaiidanTomcat]

Because the DC-3 and C-130 don't pull 9 "G"s on a daily basis, and BTW have you seen the status of the C-130 fleet lately? The individual F-4 airframe also had a much shorter lifespan than 50 years; take a look at the losses and production rates of that aircraft due to Vietnam. The current USAF fighter fleet is the oldest in its history and has flown more hours than projected in much heavier configurations (full weapons/fuel load) than projected leading to much higher fatigue than expected. The general public seems to be painfully unaware of the fact that starting in 1991 the USAF and Navy fighter aircraft were flying combat missions every day, and haven't stopped since. That's 19 straight years of combat operations with the same airframes, perhaps that explains why they're now falling apart in mid-air.

The arrogance of betting one's national defense strategy for the next forty years on what is happening now is staggering. Especially so, since the U.S. (and every other country) has consistently shown they can not predict with certainty the shape of wars to come.

Regards,

Murph

Well said... All those southern/northern watch mixed in with the former Yugoslavia war, and you are talking day after day of "real" war loadouts.

[Spongebob]

Just because you put a TomTom GPS in a 1984 Corvette does not mean it's a Z06.

[GreyGhost]

Just because you put a TomTom GPS in a 1984 Corvette does not mean it's a Z06.

True but you can wedge in a crate 502 instead ...

Gregg

[TaiidanTomcat]

Not to insert yet another car cliche...but it seems like the equivalent of driving around on bad tires with no tread left "just drive straight, don't turn or anything and you should be fine... I put a new GPS in there, so that should take care of things anyway"

...You mean a new whizbang radar won't cure structural fatigue? odd.

[Wayne S]

...You mean a new whizbang radar won't cure structural fatigue? odd.

Airforce has this thing about using real thick Duct Tape now, that might get them another 20 years

[MattC]

I wonder what the cost difference between upgrading and maintaining old C-model airframes and this fella?

Clicky

States that it isn't intended for the US market, but at £100m per piece it seems like a more sensible option than flogging old airframes?

[Jonathan_Lotton]

I wonder what the cost difference between upgrading and maintaining old C-model airframes and this fella?

Clicky

States that it isn't intended for the US market, but at £100m per piece it seems like a more sensible option than flogging old airframes?

For $100m or so..you can have a Silent Eagle. For $20m more you can have a F-22...

So, which one would you choose?

[MattC]

flippin 'eck, I thought the F-22 would be a lot more than that, or, at least, the difference would be greater, although, thats £100m is the unit price for something which is intended for export, so I would assume thats the price tag for other nations and not what the US would pay?

Would it also make sense that there is a degree of commonality between current F-15 models and the SE? If so, then the maintenance and spares costs come down somewhat perhaps? I'm guessing it would cost less to update current F-15 ground crews to the SE model than to train them to F-22?

I guess part of the problem is with the whole issue, is that there's naff all cash in the pot, but that conversation starts getting into the realms of defense spending and strategy, and, erm, I can't go there.

Edited April 18, 2010 by MattC

[Jonathan_Lotton]

flippin 'eck, I thought the F-22 would be a lot more than that, or, at least, the difference would be greater, although, thats £100m is the unit price for something which is intended for export, so I would assume thats the price tag for other nations and not what the US would pay?

When the price of aircraft alone is considered, the final F-22 per aircraft flyaway price was between 110 and 120M per plane. The massive "300 million" price tag is a creation of applying development costs over the entire production run. This isnt fair because that money is already long gone and spent.

Just one of those little secrets that opponents to the F-22 program didnt want out.

[MattC]

Is that in $US? Thats really not such a bad price is it, and using development costs is always a bit unfair, especially when new technology is being utilised as in the F-22.

Interesting comparisons;

EF Typhoon - £70m flyaway = US$ 107m

Rafale - US$ 90m

F35 - US$ 83m

PAK-FA (Estimated) 10Bn development cost, Unit cost approx 100m

Gripen - US$60m

[TaiidanTomcat]

Would it also make sense that there is a degree of commonality between current F-15 models and the SE? If so, then the maintenance and spares costs come down somewhat perhaps? I'm guessing it would cost less to update current F-15 ground crews to the SE model than to train them to F-22?

I see what you mean but in the end... you are just buying time. Upgraded aircraft are usually stop gaps for the next generation, they can't last forever. Eventually you have to let go of the side of the pool and go for a swim. They can't hold onto the F-15 forever and the USAF should never be afraid of having to learn a new and more advanced craft.

Maintainers leave the service all the time so you just teach the next group on the next generation. The maintainers that are there are not stupid, and can learn how to fix even the F-22s warp coil core.

And as for spares... I haven't taken a look out in the desert in a while, but I am willing to bet that since most F-15Cs are at or past the 10,000 mark, the spares are being used already.