F-22 vs PAK FA

[dylan]

It hadn't been formally selected last time I checked in with my guy at their DND (their version of our DOD), but it's practically a sure thing. Oddly enough, they're considering the F-35B STOVL version as well as the CTOL- which is just plain weird. My dude doesn't know why- just that they were looking at it- but that was all back in December.

It may be because a bunch of the lift fan components are made in Canada.

Ken awesome job scratchbuilding there

[Berkut]

It is not easy to compare an production aircraft F-22 with one whose engine is yet to be developed.

Just to correct you and the article slightly: Phase 2 engine isn't developed (and wont be ready within atleast 8 years is my guess), Phase one (article 117) is developed and have been flying with Su-35-10 and PAK-FA. Article 117 is able to produce 15 700 kg of trust on full afterburner, which is close to 35 000 lb. That is not bad at all imho, for a phase one engine.

Article also says there will be 2000 flights, which has been misquoted from Putin in media about 13404 times already. It is 2000 flight *hours*, for all frames that are supposed to fly.

[Kei Lau]

Just to correct you and the article slightly: Phase 2 engine isn't developed (and wont be ready within atleast 8 years is my guess), Phase one (article 117) is developed and have been flying with Su-35-10 and PAK-FA. Article 117 is able to produce 15 700 kg of trust on full afterburner, which is close to 35 000 lb. That is not bad at all imho, for a phase one engine.

NPO Saturn has said that the PAK FA T-50 phase one engine was NOT based on Saturn 117S, but provided few details. Most of the western reports were skeptical about it. The Saturn 117S was intended to power the Su-35BM. It is difficult to argue that the Saturn 117S IS a Gen-5 engine. So some said that the PAK FA T-50 is a true Gen5 aircraft when the Phase 2 engine comes on line whenever that is.

What is the article 117? If it is flying on the Su-35-10, is it the older Saturn 117 (no S) engine?

[zerosystem]

reminded of the south park episode

..."Phase 1: Collect underpants, Phase 2: ..., Phase 3: Profit

- Sooo, what's phase 2?

- Hey, what's phase 2?

- Phase 1: we collect underpants.

- Yeah yeah yeah, but. What about phase 2?

- Well, phase 3 is profit. Get it?

- I don't get it.

- Phase 1: collect underpants. Phase 2: … Phase 3: Profit."

[Cobrahistorian]

mmm... popcorn....

Edited April 28, 2010 by Cobrahistorian

[Berkut]

NPO Saturn has said that the PAK FA T-50 phase one engine was NOT based on Saturn 117S, but provided few details. Most of the western reports were skeptical about it. The Saturn 117S was intended to power the Su-35BM. It is difficult to argue that the Saturn 117S IS a Gen-5 engine. So some said that the PAK FA T-50 is a true Gen5 aircraft when the Phase 2 engine comes on line whenever that is.

What is the article 117? If it is flying on the Su-35-10, is it the older Saturn 117 (no S) engine?

In short, there is a "family" of article 117 engines. 117A, 117S and just 117. The best and most complete version is 117, which needs more airflow than 117S. And 117S needs more airflow that the usual Al-31, hence why the intakes on Su-35S is supposedly enlarged. Where i dont know, i haven't been able to see it visually. Basically, 117S is downgraded 117.

I would not call 117 family 5 gen, because they lack a lot of things that F-119 has. 117 is based on Al-31 series, but very heavily modified and updated. 80 % of the parts inside it are new in design compared to Al-31. I think Saturn, Salyut and MOD understands that even tho Al-31 is great engine, there is a certain amount of updates you can do. After you have done them, there is probably no future for the engine to be updated even more. That is why "block 2" competition if launched.

[Alvis 3.1]

Thus proving the adage "If Ken scratchbuilds it, it will be released as a kit".

Alvis 3.1

I have scratchbuilt one.....

The In Progress build thread is here

A Russian enterprise is planning a resin kit (due end May).....

And the Russian kit manufacturer Zvezda is rumoured to be planning an injection-moulded kit.

Ken

[Ken Cartwright]

Ken, that is a really exceptional scratch build - very impressive work!

[big fatty]

I have scratchbuilt one.....

The In Progress build thread is here

A Russian enterprise is planning a resin kit (due end May).....

And the Russian kit manufacturer Zvezda is rumoured to be planning an injection-moulded kit.

Ken

The plane should be called a FLANKTOR, nice model!

[Trigger]

Nice build Ken.

[Mike C]

Just to back up what has been said in the thread here. I've read that Canada has an initial plan given the plane develops as required to purchase 65 air frames. I'd expect some industrial spin offs on buying into the F-35 would come to Canada as well.

If we stop at 65, it's really bare bones numbers. Australia which is half our pop and GDP plans to buy 100. It also is buying F-18E/F Super Hornets. The Dutch even are buying more than us.

Just a thought..., and I mean no disrespect here.... Maybe the reason why Canada is not planning to buy too many is because, in a way, the USAF is assumed to be the 1st line of defense?

Conversely, Australia always wants something better than what Indonesians have, because our gov't is damned scared of the Indons. Personally, I reckon this fear is baseless. I *was* an Indon before migrating to Australia (now naturalised Aussie), and I can say that there is absolutely no way Indon will, or can, attack Australia.

[Mike C]

This explains it all rather well;

Clicky

Matt

yer killin' me, matey!

[Mike C]

I have scratchbuilt one.....

Hot dang! NICE!!

And the Russian kit manufacturer Zvezda is rumoured to be planning an injection-moulded kit.

Ken

Hope that'll happen soon....