Vpanoptes Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 (edited) Interesting article by Bill Sweetman in today's online AWS & T regarding the evolutionary development of the Super Hornet. He points out that with the announced delay in the IOC of the F-35C (and probable further delays as testing progresses) Boeing is looking ahead and working on an "evolved" version of the F/A-18 E/F with an upgraded MFD, possibly higher thrust and/or lower fuel consumption engine and integrating the BVR Meteor or JDRADM as part of the weapons loadout. Have to wonder how far along the Navy is in thinking well, gotta fill those decks with something to justify the size and operational tempo of the carrier fleet. Legacy Hornets not going to last forever (fighter "shortfall") + what-if-worst case scenario (there are major problems with the F-35B AND -C) and even if there aren't + can we afford sufficient #'s of the Lighting II if we can buy 1.5-2 F-18("H"?'s) for the same price and have lower maintenance, learning curve, etc. costs? Also probably depends on how the UCAS stuff turns out. Avenger-C, X-46, etc. doing well on trials could be plenty bad news for LockMart. Anybody want to speculate (official projections aside, probably not worth the electrons they bump given how rapidly things are changing) on the mix of Legacy 18's/F-18 E-F/F-35's we'll see on deck(s) in 2015? 2020? My bet is (at least for 2015) 0-5% on the F-35. Edited May 6, 2010 by Vpanoptes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 Well, I know Boeing has been proposing the Block III Super Hornet upgrade for awhile now, first I've heard it referred to it as and 'H' model though ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mhoupt Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 You know, Boeing may be thinking it is saving our country, and rightfully so. With the F-35 faltering, the F-22 out of production and no more purchasing of the F-16 or F-15 fighter variant, we would be in trouble if a big time global super power war came about and replacement aircraft were needed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 Well, Strike Eagles and Vipers are still rolling down the lines but not for our nation anymore ... That may change though if the F-35 really screws the pooch ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vpanoptes Posted May 6, 2010 Author Share Posted May 6, 2010 (edited) Well, I know Boeing has been proposing the Block III Super Hornet upgrade for awhile now, first I've heard it referred to it as and 'H' model though... Gregg Nothing official, just my label. Corrected/amended in original post. Given what I recall of the history of the SuperHornet, even though there is what - 25% commonality? - with the A,B,C,D models (making it effectively a different aircraft) there was a reluctance to assign it a new F- number at least in part because of the perception in the P-word world that we were buying a "new" fighter - hence F/A-18 E & F. Be interesting to see if it pans out similarly this time IF this situation ("H" model) actually occurs, or if it will just be known as a Block-whatever upgrade. Edited May 6, 2010 by Vpanoptes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richter111 Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I can surely see this as a logical step. I especially like the part about lowered fuel consumption. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I can surely see this as a logical step. I especially like the part about lowered fuel consumption. Could you imagine how maneuverable a Rhino would be with thrust vectoring nozzles too ? I'd bet it would be able to do somersaults ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sting Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I remember reading an article on the F-35, possibly Combat Aircraft, the US Air Force was looking at the Super Hornet to fill the fighter/strike gap if the F-35 program fell on it's face. With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if upgraded SHs are on the horizon for the Navy and AF. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richter111 Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 The only thing I would worry about would be adding so much capability, that the price goes too high, and we can afford about 4 of them. I think the USA might want to look at buying a few hundred new F-15's, and F-16's and add to the electronic capability Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IrishGreek Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 The only thing I would worry about would be adding so much capability, that the price goes too high, and we can afford about 4 of them.I think the USA might want to look at buying a few hundred new F-15's, and F-16's and add to the electronic capability Sorry for the question if it's dumb, but I am not anywhere near an expert on the Viper. So with these latest versions, and all the extra stuff they are putting on those birds, how much has their air-to-air capability been degraded. I am looking at these Block 60 birds and the Sufas and it just looks like all that stuff would really mess with it. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matt Roberts Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 One thing to remember with the late block Viper add ons (CFTs etc) is that they are to increase range with airforces that don't have the tanker capability that the USAF has (no cracks about KC-X part deaux) so a USAF 'Block 70' would not have the need for the CFT and 'super sized' tankage (600 gal Israeli for example). Much of the weaponry that has been upgraded has increased leathality over the Block 15 Sidewinder only capable/dumb bombers of the 1980s. The whole discussion about the utility of agility versus missile capability and detection/counter measure capacity of an airframe will probably not be answered anytime soon An 'Ultra Hornet'...interesting....even more so as a USAF bird, time to grab an old Italeri kit to Whif on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 You have the designation wrong. It will be the F/A/R/S/E-18H Super Dooper Hornet. Somewhere in the gallery are pictures of it. I'm working on a new and improved one where the dome can be taken off and replaced with a set of rotor blades. That way all the SH-60's can be retired! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phantom Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Perhaps instead of removing the rotor dome you should just add the rotor blades directly to it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IrishGreek Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 You have the designation wrong. It will be the F/A/R/S/E-18H Super Dooper Hornet. Somewhere in the gallery are pictures of it. I'm working on a new and improved one where the dome can be taken off and replaced with a set of rotor blades. That way all the SH-60's can be retired! Sounds like a drawing done for the A-10 during Desert Storm. They called it the RFOA-10G. Good book BTW, called "Warthog, Flying the A-10 in the Gulf War" by William Smallwood. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grey Ghost 531 Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Sounds like a drawing done for the A-10 during Desert Storm. They called it the RFOA-10G. Good book BTW, called "Warthog, Flying the A-10 in the Gulf War" by William Smallwood. Or the RBCF-4XYZ "Macnaphantom" from the '60s Macnaphantom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mynameismatt Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Maybe a loaded question, but how long before the F-35 becomes operational? Or... expected? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twhite80 Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Sign me up for more super hornets! I think that they are the bees knees! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Maybe a loaded question, but how long before the F-35 becomes operational? Or... expected? The Naval version is *supposed* to reach the Fleet in about 2016 ... But development is behind schedule and slipping more ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vpanoptes Posted May 7, 2010 Author Share Posted May 7, 2010 (edited) Maybe a loaded question, but how long before the F-35 becomes operational? Or... expected? Depends on the model. The USMC apparently plans to have something in the way of IOC for the F-35B by 2012. For the -35A & -35C, as noted by Gregg, sometime around 2015-2016. But, then and again, this program is notorious for being behind schedule. As somebody (Sweetman?) once said -(paraphrasing) The Donner Part was on track, just behind schedule. Time will tell.... Edited May 7, 2010 by Vpanoptes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 Looks like the Navy is adding more Rhinos to the Fleet ... >>> Clicky <<< Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 Regarding the F-35B......in the wake of the news about the new Boeing fighter in 2025.....maybe the SH should just soldier on until then, let the USAF and USMC get the F-35, then everyone gets the newer jets later. Or, limit production of the F-35 for everyone, get some experience flying them, and apply it to the design of the new jet. The USAF can also maybe buy a few SHs to keep them going. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matt Roberts Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 A question for the Rhino guys out there in ARCland. Today at my LHS we got discussing the F-35/Super Hornet issue mentioned here. The person I was speaking with mentioned that the new Super Hornets had a new wing design that eliminates both the sawtooth as well as the need for the toe out on the pylons. Is this true for all NEW BUILD F/A-18E/Fs or just the Growler? The wing tweaks (as found on Steel Beach's conversion set - on Lucky Model this week) as far as I have known were only on the Growler and not on the standard fleet Rhinos. Any truth in this? And if so will the Aussie Rhinos be of the new design? Matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 Maybe a loaded question, but how long before the F-35 becomes operational? Or... expected? Best answer will come from here... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkW Posted May 9, 2010 Share Posted May 9, 2010 The Naval version is *supposed* to reach the Fleet in about 2016 ... But development is behind schedule and slipping more ... Gregg Minor correction. Flight test is more behind than development. The extra months added to the program are for test in SDD, not development. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted May 9, 2010 Share Posted May 9, 2010 A question for the Rhino guys out there in ARCland. Today at my LHS we got discussing the F-35/Super Hornet issue mentioned here. The person I was speaking with mentioned that the new Super Hornets had a new wing design that eliminates both the sawtooth as well as the need for the toe out on the pylons. Is this true for all NEW BUILD F/A-18E/Fs or just the Growler?The wing tweaks (as found on Steel Beach's conversion set - on Lucky Model this week) as far as I have known were only on the Growler and not on the standard fleet Rhinos. Any truth in this? And if so will the Aussie Rhinos be of the new design? Matt Gotta agree with you Matt, I've never heard that the wing fences or new sawtooth design for the EA-18G would be implemented on new build Rhinos and as for the pylon mounts being changed, that would require a whole new wing being developed at a substantial cost ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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