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Bitten by PayPal Dispute process


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I sold a kit on Ebay about 2 months ago. A gent in Spain won the auction. I offered different mail rates from Sea Mail to Registered Air Mail. The buyer decided on Sea Mail (obviously the cheapest). I had stated in the Ebay invoice that Sea Mail would take 6-8 Weeks from here in Australia. The model was paid for the day the auction ended by PayPal and I mailed it the following day (16 March). All was good.

Then about 4 weeks after the auction I get a message about where the kit was? I explained in a return message that it would take up to 2 months to get to him as mentioned in the Ebay invoice. Fine, all quiet again...

Then a couple of weeks ago I get a message from PayPal about a dispute being raised due to the item not arriving. According to Australia Post this is still 3 weeks before the minimum time the package would arrive. I again sent explanation via PayPal this time that he would not get the pacakge until at least 16 May (what date it is today? 12 May...) I also emailed the gent and sent a copy of the post office receipt. I have doubt whether the email address registered in Paypal is correct as I have not received one reply to the emails sent to him.

So yesterday I get another message from PayPal that the dispute was escalated and that I had to provide proof of Postage. So I sent the receipt to our friends at PayPal. They said it could take a couple of weeks to 'investigate' the issue. I managed to translate the buyers note and he said something about buying heaps from the USA and it taking not as long for the package to get there. Well yes I suppose he is right, the USA is on the other side of the Atlantic, not the other side of the world!

Well within 4-5 hours I get another message from PayPal that the dispute had been resolved in favour of the BUYER!!!! WT*!!!

Obviously there was no investigation, they are obviously there to help out the buyer so they keep using the service. Not Happy Jan!

Anyway I eventually found a way to send a message to Paypal questioning how they investigated the dispute. I included a link to the Aus Post website stating 2-3 months was the norm for Sea Mail. I wonder if I will get a reply.

I bet any money the kit will turn up in a week or 2 and I will be out of pocket and minus a kit.

I sent a kit to the UK in early May by Sea Mail and it took 2 months and 2 days to arrive. So by my reckoning the buyer will have his kit by the end of next week. I hope this guy is honest and when the kit arrives he sends the money back or returns the kit... We will see.

Edited by Trojan Thunder
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Hey Ray,

Sorry to hear your troubles with your buyer and PayPal.

One of the limitations with PayPal is the time to file a claim. 45 days is the limit for filing a claim. Sounds like your buyer was watching the calendar as he filed a claim on day 45. Hopefully he isn't just trying to take advantage of you.

Due to the 45 day limit on PayPal claims I refuse to ship via a method that will exceed that time.

Sounds like your only option is to wait and see if the buyer is trying to pull a fast one on you. If you haven't already left feedback for the buyer, leave negative feedback a reasonable time after the 16th to ensure the kit has been delivered.

Did you insure the kit? If the buyer never gets back to you you should be able to file a lost shipment claim.

Cheers,

John

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I have an aquaintence who runs a hobby shop and runs auctions on ebay. When a buyer files a claim, there's about a 90% chance that paypal will side with the buyer. For that reason, on international transactions I demand that the parcel be registered, which costs about $15 (USD). That adds a bit of security. One thing about his claims of parcels arriving from the USA much quicker - That could be due to the fact that international surface mail is no longer an option from our postal service. All international mail flies. That means it goes to Europe in about 10 days, versus 6 weeks by surface.

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Typical response from PayPal. When They ask for proof of postage they want something with a tracking number. That is why I never ship surface mail overseas.

Edited by KevinS
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:D, Hi Ray,

Sorry to hear about this mate. Perhaps in future you should consider giving the winner one overseas mailing option; registerd air mail, and they pay before posting or the deal is off and that needs to be made quite clear to them in the ebay listing. Don't mince your words, tell it straight and they have no excuse for nonpayment. Maybe it's just my suspicious mind at work here, but to me the whole thing smells pretty fishy.

Ross.

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:thumbsup:, Hi Ray,

Sorry to hear about this mate. Perhaps in future you should consider giving the winner one overseas mailing option; registerd air mail, and they pay before posting or the deal is off and that needs to be made quite clear to them in the ebay listing. Don't mince your words, tell it straight and they have no excuse for nonpayment. Maybe it's just my suspicious mind at work here, but to me the whole thing smells pretty fishy.

Ross.

Without a tracking number it is pretty easy for any buyer to file a false claim that the item never arrived. PayPal sides with the buyer most of the time.

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yet another reason I am glad I don't use Paypal. Sure....it tends to take a little longer to mail someone a money order....but in the end, the seller gets the full amount of the sale without percentages taken out and I get what I was looking for....everyone happy

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Sorry to hear about your paypal probs Ray.

I once sent a package from the UK to New Zealand by the cheapest rate (surface mail?) - incidentally it was the first boxing of Hasegawa's 1/48 Phantom FG-1 and quite heavy - and it took a week to get there!

The buyer emailed me saying how pleased he was (!?)

I reckon they must have strapped a pair of SR-71 jet engines either side of the hull on that old tramp steamer for its voyage down!

Keep yopur fingers crossed man.

Gaz

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I've seen this happen too: a friend of mine sent a kit to someone in Holland, had proof of posting but the buyer claimed that he hadn't received the kit and filed a complaint which, despite proof, was resolved in favour of the buyer.

I had someone file a dispute after they emailed me to say that they had received the kit! Luckily, given that I had the email as evidence, PayPal actually resolved in my favour.

The problem is, obtaining a tracking number costs a lot here in the UK which adds to the already high price of postage, then buyers moan about the cost. PayPal actually sets limits on postage costs for some items (such as DVD), which is fine up to a point, but a double set properly packaged will cost more than their maximum £1 to send! IMHO, PayPal has got too much power and too little responsibility in the way it operates. Ebay used to be a great way of buying and selling; now it's just another corporate greed-machine.

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I usually will insist on either Intl Priority mail or EMS when going international.

its for those very reasons..shipping is 7-10 days on priority and 3 days for EMS.

tracking numbers are a must. it protects me as well as the buyer

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I usually will insist on either Intl Priority mail or EMS when going international.

its for those very reasons..shipping is 7-10 days on priority and 3 days for EMS.

tracking numbers are a must. it protects me as well as the buyer

Same here. I was burned twice. UK and Canada, I'll send priority mail international, as paypal will recognize most addresses in those countries as "confirmed", and tracking on priority mail international will be sufficient. Everywhere else in the world, its EMS (USPS Express Mail) only. Sucks for the buyer cost wise, but they get it quick, and there is sufficient "proof of receipt" for paypal if there is a dispute.

I actually just won a dispute where the buyer (in the US) tried to reverse the charges. I provided all the tracking info (shipped to a confirmed address), and the the dispute was closed in my favor.

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Trojan,

My advice is to escalate your feedback directly to the CEO of PayPal. I've written to the head of several companies when I've been unhappy with service or products I received and always with positive results (even when I knew I'd made a mistake). Just be thorough yet concise, firm yet fair in your request and you should see a satisfactory resolution.

And write a letter, don't email.

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Never, ever,ever send items overseas by ground or ship. This will always happen.

Steve

I have sent a number of packages overseas by Surface and all has been good. This time the buyer has been impatient expecting a surface package to take the same time to get to him as it takes from the USA. Only few extra thousand miles from here. What also gets my goat is that not once did I get a reply to my responces to him. Comms seemed to be all one way.

Anyway PayPal sent me a survey on my thoughts about the dispute process so I told them what I thought (in a reasonable sort of way).

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I have sent a package via surface down under to New Zealand. It took a lot longer to get there than the post office published time. I however was fortunate to be dealing with a gentleman on the other end and there were no issues.

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