GreyGhost Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Which is also a pretty good description of the X-32 trying to hover... The F-35B is doing such a great job now too eh ? Maybe that's the problem, LM making promises they can't keep ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkW Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 Apples and oranges. The F-35B is having troubles while in hover. The X-32 couldn't hover. The distinction may appear subtle, but it is indeed huge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkW Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 ...and back to the news. Mostly on F-22, but some key information on the F-35: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-16/l...in-repairs.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Apples and oranges. The F-35B is having troubles while in hover.The X-32 couldn't hover. The distinction may appear subtle, but it is indeed huge. X-32 was just a flying prototype demonstrator that could hover ... F-35B is a near production test aircraft that is failing miserably ... 2 more years ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aigore Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 I´ve always thought the F-35B STOVL system was too complex...too many moving parts, too many faliure points too feel reliable in the dirt and grime in the field. The old Harrier system felt more reliable and proven....not to mention smoother. (very subjective thinking here, I haven´t dwelled on the systems in detail just the feel of them) Think there´s a difference in philosophy in the two systems, one is state of the art, flashy and complex while the other is older, simpler and ...well for lack of any better word, dirtier Almost like one´s a fine Lady while the other one was a dirty Tomboy with scratched knees...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spejic Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Competition is a good thing, especially when no contracts are being signed now. No deals are being made. They're just saying "Build it, we'll pick the best and most cost-effective when the time comes" -- and that is the real reason to have 2 engines competing. If the company thinks it has a good product then they should fund their own development. The government has already given billions to GE for the engine, and it would take billions more just to get it up the level the PW one is at now. X-32 was just a flying prototype demonstrator that could hover ... I like how they never show the ground in this video so you can't see what it's actually doing. In the tests where they had to do vertical takeoffs and landings, they had to remove every bit of weight they could from the demonstrator, , just to do them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twhite80 Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Booo! Cancel it! We can buy updated Vipers, Eagles, and Super Hornets. Hey everyone is being asked to tighten their belts and adjust their expectations, yet this jet gets more and more expensive and further and further delayed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 If the company thinks it has a good product then they should fund their own development. The government has already given billions to GE for the engine, and it would take billions more just to get it up the level the PW one is at now. The government has given Billions to LM for the F-35 and is now way over budget, they should fund it themselves from now on too ... I like how they never show the ground in this video so you can't see what it's actually doing. In the tests where they had to do vertical takeoffs and landings, they had to remove every bit of weight they could from the demonstrator, , just to do them. Actually, the cruise nozzle is clearly seen closed in parts of the video ... You can also see the aircraft pivot ... Again, a one off demonstrator aircraft, not a near production airframe ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkW Posted December 18, 2010 Author Share Posted December 18, 2010 The government has given Billions to LM for the F-35 and is now way over budget, they should fund it themselves from now on too ... Actually, the cruise nozzle is clearly seen closed in parts of the video ... You can also see the aircraft pivot ... Again, a one off demonstrator aircraft, not a near production airframe ... Gregg Fact is the great guppy couldn't do hover flight in its normal configuration. It was literally two different jets for STOVL and reasonable horizontal flight. But hey, designing and building this stuff is easy. Must be a bunch of dummies at Boeing to not figure it out, and LM its having a hard time too. If only there was a guy who knew everything we could send to Gates and get the program back on track...someone who could not only monday morning quarterback it, but also solve the hard problems. Guess we'll keep looking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 Fact is the great guppy couldn't do hover flight in its normal configuration. It was literally two different jets for STOVL and reasonable horizontal flight.But hey, designing and building this stuff is easy. Must be a bunch of dummies at Boeing to not figure it out, and LM its having a hard time too. If only there was a guy who knew everything we could send to Gates and get the program back on track...someone who could not only monday morning quarterback it, but also solve the hard problems. Guess we'll keep looking. Kettle, Pot, Pot, Kettle ... You yourself are guilty of calling the F-35B a serious risk, Mark ... :mellow: So, what do you know ? Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spongebob Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 Is it allowable to request a mercy kill on a thread? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 Is it allowable to request a mercy kill on a thread? No Mercy ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kei Lau Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 Is it allowable to request a mercy kill on a thread? You will not dare. This is one of the most fun thread. :lol: The subtitle said "Sorry, it's not ALL doom and gloom". Yet, only 80% or 90% of the posts were so far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Michael Bay Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 This is one of the most fun thread. You don't get out very much. Listen up intern I've been away for a while. We've got a lot of updates to do for the "supermodels-banged" page of my life spreadsheet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spongebob Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 The subtitle said "Sorry, it's not ALL doom and gloom". Yet, only 80% or 90% of the posts were so far. Based on 80-90% of the posts so far the subtitle should read "stop by here to kick MarkW in the junk when you're bored with your XBox" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Based on 80-90% of the posts so far the subtitle should read " Let's bring back the Mighty Tweet " Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 (edited) Based on 80-90% of the posts so far the subtitle should read "stop by here to kick MarkW in the junk when you're bored with your XBox" I don't have an XBox ... Besides, we know your stance on Grumman Aircraft, the F-14 in particular ... Look, I've stopped calling him an L-M Lobbyist, that wasn't very nice and I do apologize for that ... So, Mark, I am sorry ... :P Sincerely, -Gregg Irons Edited December 20, 2010 by GreyGhost Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkW Posted December 20, 2010 Author Share Posted December 20, 2010 More news: Cost is coming down... LRIP IV cost targets. The second article has a typo at the end--it should reference LRIP V, not IV. Yes, it is ridiculously expensive, but keep in mind LRIP IV is only the first 63 AC on the program, and the concurrent production-design-oops-redesign cycle of the early LRIPs is not helping the cost. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oroka Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 So what is the price? $111.6m or $60m? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkW Posted December 20, 2010 Author Share Posted December 20, 2010 Yes. The early LRIP costs are higher than the FRP costs because the LRIP numbers are a fraction of the buy. There is a cost curve to show how the cost drops over time as LM gets better at building jets and working out supplier issues. Remember the design is mostly done. The important bit there is the unit cost is coming down, and those targeted prices were chosen to make sure we get to the >$60M number. There is a lot more on the early LRIP contacts than just building jets, so the true URF is masked under a bunch of other items true production jets wouldn't see. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Murph Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 No Mercy ... Sweep the leg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oroka Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 So, just explain to me what makes the LRIP jets more expensive. Is it because they are pretty much still pretty much hand building each jet, and haven't really gotten the cost benefits of mass production yet? In 10 years from now when we are looking back at the cost of the F-35, are they going to say it costs $60m or $110m each? Like the F-22, was its final fly away price really $122m each, or does that include the development costs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RandomCatFacts Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 According to Norse legend, the fine ribbon used to bind Fenrir was crafted by dwarfs from, among other items, the sound a cat makes when walking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 >>> A reason F136 is still being funded ? <<< Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkW Posted December 23, 2010 Author Share Posted December 23, 2010 More from Ash Carter: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/sto...In%20Production Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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