westie7 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Is the RN out of submarines? Slight digression but since you asked :) Living as I do within stones throw of the North Sea I wouldnt trust the RN to find their way out of port HMS Superb grounding in the Red Sea in May 2008. HMS Tireless struck an iceberg while on Arctic Patrol in May 2003. HMS Trafalgar grounded on Fladda-chuain in November 2002. HMS Triumph grounded in November 2000. HMS Victorious grounded, while surfaced, on Skelmorlie Bank in November 2000. HMS Trenchant grounded off the coast of Australia in July 1997. HMS Repulse grounded in the North Channel in July 1996. HMS Trafalgar grounded off the Isle of Sky in July 1996. HMS Valliant grounded in the North Norwegian Sea in March 1991. HMS Trenchant snagged the fishing vessel Antares in the Arran Trench in November 1990. HMS Spartan grounded west of Scotland in October 1989. HMS Sceptre snagged the fishing vessel Scotia in November 1989. HMS Conqueror collided with the yacht Dalriada off the Northern Irish coast in July 1988. Thats the ones easy to find Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Cartwright Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Could they just put an IR Seeker head on the AIM-120 ? :unsure:/> -Gregg I wondered about that too, but figured it it must be easier to use the existing guidance of a missile that already uses IR, and is still lighter, etc. I wonder if they could follow the Russian lead and *add* an IR seeker to the AIM-120 somehow, so it's dual-mode, to help address the potential jamming. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) Northrop Grumman Delivers Center Fuselage for Italy's First F-35 Lightning II, Enabling Increased International Participation http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20130723-905885.html Edited July 25, 2013 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fellow Hobbyist Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Could they just put an IR Seeker head on the AIM-120 ? :unsure:/> -Gregg I believe something like that has been done before. Perhaps six years ago or so Raytheon and Lockheed Martin were building prototypes for NCADE; a ABM system designed around the use of loitering fighters to shoot down ICBM's during the boost phase of flight. Raytheon's proposal was to use an extensively modified AMRAAM body and the seeker from the AIM-9X. So it is conceivable an AMRAAM could be modified to use an IR seeker head. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) Taken from the cockpit of an Su-27 (or maybe a Typhoon?) as the F-35 driver struggles in vain to get away. Proof positive that the F-35 is a pig in A2A combat. Nice pic though.... Edited July 26, 2013 by 11bee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Cartwright Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Northrop Grumman Delivers Center Fuselage for Italy's First F-35 Lightning II, Enabling Increased International Participation Not really news, but something related to that - I was just walking through the NG F-35 production line on 7/20/13. Pretty interesting to see all the center fuselage's in various states of assembly. And the whole line was so very clean. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Taken from the cockpit of an Su-27 (or maybe a Typhoon?) as the F-35 driver struggles vainly to get away. Proof positive that the F-35 is a pig in A2A combat. Nice pic though.... LOL cracked me up (the prefered APA boogey man is the Su-35 though ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkW Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013  Fight’s on!! 1) South Korea Renews Push for Fighter Jets Wall Street Journal -- 25 July 2013 http://blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2013/07/25/south-korea-renews-push-for-fighter-jets/ 2) South Korea reopens bidding for stalled fighter jet competition Gnom -- 25 July 2013 http://news.gnom.es/news/south-korea-reopens-bidding-for-stalled-fighter-jet-competition Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Analysts said that was unlikely to close the price gap that has scuppered previous rounds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mark M. Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 LOL cracked me up (the prefered APA boogey man is the Su-35 though :thumbsup:/> ) Doesn't crack me up. Too much of that rhetoric being thrown around, hard to tell if he's joking or not with the amount of absurd comments flying around on the Net. Clearly a missile test pic taken from a chase plane, but pretty awesome photo nonetheless. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Doesn't crack me up. Too much of that rhetoric being thrown around, hard to tell if he's joking or not with the amount of absurd comments flying around on the Net. Clearly a missile test pic taken from a chase plane, but pretty awesome photo nonetheless. I trust he was joking, If he is serious I'm sure he will tell us. The reality is busy with garbage like this: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shawn C. Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Yeah, what's up with all of that garbage that is posted above when there are REAL problems that this aircraft has. No need to go out of one's way to find problems that still need resolution. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 (edited) Yeah, what's up with all of that garbage that is posted above when there are REAL problems that this aircraft has. No need to go out of one's way to find problems that still need resolution. Do you not fear the "potential Fire hazard" causing "very hot particle matter" issues? Or can you not see the projecting monitor television style screen from your your data processing super machine ?? you probably need one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Link-Cable/dp/B000I1X6PM/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top Edited July 26, 2013 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Doesn't crack me up. Too much of that rhetoric being thrown around, hard to tell if he's joking or not with the amount of absurd comments flying around on the Net. Clearly a missile test pic taken from a chase plane, but pretty awesome photo nonetheless. Chill Mark, it was in jest. Given all the posts that claim that "Fighter X" gunned down an F-22 at Red Flag so they have to be a superior jet, I just had to jump in. Plus we all know that nothing can outmaneuver an F-35. Definitely a cool picture. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkW Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 I'm wondering if the corrosive particulate genius has retracted that slide now that we now the F-35 does a cold eject? The arrogance of the supra-genius "experts", to honestly put forth that we would design an aircraft that would intentionally bathe in rocket plumes and fire. Yeah, maybe a few decades ago, when we were still learning, and I'm not saying there weren't some bad choices made on JSF, but c'mon, man. Also, my compromise math is a little rusty. I think we covered it briefly in Calc III. Can someone remind me of the derivation for STOVL = Compromised^3? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I'm wondering if the corrosive particulate genius has retracted that slide now that we now the F-35 does a cold eject? They have never let facts like that get in the way. Can someone remind me of the derivation for STOVL = Compromised^3? "compromised to infinity and beyond" didn't sound fancy enough? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Here we are wasting all those billions on F-22's and F-35's when we could have been purchasing "combat-tested" Rafales. From an interview of the French Defense Minster conducted by the Hindustan Times: The Rafale is principally designed to counter the Chinese Air Force. Yet it is a fourth-generation fighter at a time when China is testing a fifth-generation airplane. Will Rafale be outdated by the time it is fully inducted? The Rafale is an omni-role aircraft designed to address the entire range of challenges that countries like France, India or others may face. I would take all the excitement about third or fourth or fifth-generation aircraft with a pinch of salt. As of today, the only operational so-called 'fifth-generation' fighter has never been used in combat. Frankly, in real terms, the Rafale is as good as any existing fifth-generation aircraft. As the British say, "the proof is in the pudding". The Rafale has been used extensively in Afghanistan, Libya in 2011 and in Mali since January 2013. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kei Lau Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013  Fight’s on!! 1) South Korea Renews Push for Fighter Jets Wall Street Journal -- 25 July 2013 http://blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2013/07/25/south-korea-renews-push-for-fighter-jets/ 2) South Korea reopens bidding for stalled fighter jet competition Gnom -- 25 July 2013 http://news.gnom.es/news/south-korea-reopens-bidding-for-stalled-fighter-jet-competition It does not make sense unless the South Korean is trying to give Boeing a second chance to low ball their bid. The Typhoon may have a chance too, but is less likely to take it. Will Boeing "pay" to stay in the fighter business? Is it true that LM is not able to bid a firm fixed price and South Korean will pay whatever the US price is at 2017? If so, South Korean may want to delay getting the JSF to their FX-4 program after the JSF price stablizes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 It does not make sense unless the South Korean is trying to give Boeing a second chance to low ball their bid. The Typhoon may have a chance too, but is less likely to take it. Will Boeing "pay" to stay in the fighter business? Is it true that LM is not able to bid a firm fixed price and South Korean will pay whatever the US price is at 2017? If so, South Korean may want to delay getting the JSF to their FX-4 program after the JSF price stablizes. Whats an FX-4? I did a GIS for FX-4 Korea and got this: its looks like a teen pop group which is clearly a weapon of mass destruction. Boeing doesn't want to "win" that way. They are also paying out of pocket for the Block III developments, and not recovering the money for the SE? ... yikes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kei Lau Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Whats an FX-4? I did a GIS for FX-4 Korea and got this: its looks like a teen pop group which is clearly a weapon of mass destruction. Boeing doesn't want to "win" that way. They are also paying out of pocket for the Block III developments, and not recovering the money for the SE? ... yikes. You get this picture when you left out the "4". F-X is also a Korean Teen Band. F-X is the Fighter eXperimental project. Phase 3 (F-X 3) is only for 60 fighters. If the F-X project is pursued as planned, the ROKAF may have to scrap the contentious Korean Fighter eXperimental (KFX) project, which means it would not be able to replace the remaining 212 aging F-4 and F-5 fighter aircrafts. If the entire F-4 and F-5 fleet is retired and not replaced, then the ROKAF will possess only around 200 fighters. There likely to be a Phase 4 of the F-X program. A reader of the above Korean blog left this comment: The F-X is down to this; the government will consider only bids on budget, and right now the sole viable candidate left is Boeing's Silent Eagle, whose bid is $220 million(3%) over budget. Boeing has expressed an willingness to continue the negociation and close that $220 million price gap to reach an agreement. Lockheed Martin's F-35 bid $1.5 billion over budget and cannot win, and its sole hope is the cancellation of current bidding and opening a new no-bid negociation. The EADS appears unwilling to price-compete, so they too stand on no chance of a win. So only two possible outcomes are possible, either a Boeing win or the cancellation of the bidding contest and starting anew, presumably a no-bid FMS negociation with the USAF on F-35 FMS sales, while this is highly unlikely due to the parliament opposition. My bet is a 90% chance of a Boeing win. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
-Neu- Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 You get this picture when you left out the "4". F-X is also a Korean Teen Band. F-X is the Fighter eXperimental project. Phase 3 (F-X 3) is only for 60 fighters. If the F-X project is pursued as planned, the ROKAF may have to scrap the contentious Korean Fighter eXperimental (KFX) project, which means it would not be able to replace the remaining 212 aging F-4 and F-5 fighter aircrafts. If the entire F-4 and F-5 fleet is retired and not replaced, then the ROKAF will possess only around 200 fighters. There likely to be a Phase 4 of the F-X program. A reader of the above Korean blog left this comment: The F-X is down to this; the government will consider only bids on budget, and right now the sole viable candidate left is Boeing's Silent Eagle, whose bid is $220 million(3%) over budget. Boeing has expressed an willingness to continue the negociation and close that $220 million price gap to reach an agreement. Lockheed Martin's F-35 bid $1.5 billion over budget and cannot win, and its sole hope is the cancellation of current bidding and opening a new no-bid negociation. The EADS appears unwilling to price-compete, so they too stand on no chance of a win. So only two possible outcomes are possible, either a Boeing win or the cancellation of the bidding contest and starting anew, presumably a no-bid FMS negociation with the USAF on F-35 FMS sales, while this is highly unlikely due to the parliament opposition. My bet is a 90% chance of a Boeing win. I think you've just been taken in by Slowman... replete with his characteristically completely fictitious numbers (220 million gap for the "cheaper F-15"? I'd love to see a source for that). He's a notorious troll that has been banned from almost every single forum that has some sort of effective moderation because he makes up bull****. The numbers don't even add up as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkW Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 The real issue is the Koreans can't make up their minds. Buy real capability now (F-35), or a stopgap that will allow them to time to design an indigenous fighter (F-15SE). Either way, they want what they want extremely cheap. They are also weighing the amount of tech transfer they can get, to help build that indigenous capability. What a lot of folks don't seem to recognize about the SE is that is is as much of a development project as anything. Boeing already is dropping the canted tails stealth feature to reduce risk and cut their program costs. But none of that other magic is really operational or even ready for production yet. And I love the French response on Rafale...look at how it dominated the contested airspace over Afghanistan, Libya and Mali... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 The canted tails on the F-15SE weren't intended so much for "stealth" as they were for reduced drag and weight distribution ... -Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I think you've just been taken in by Slowman... replete with his characteristically completely fictitious numbers (220 million gap for the "cheaper F-15"? I'd love to see a source for that). He's a notorious troll that has been banned from almost every single forum that has some sort of effective moderation because he makes up bull****. The numbers don't even add up as well. Yep! If made up numbers and ignorance are indicators of reality I'm sure he is an authoritative source. In the first Paragraph of the featured article it says: In particular, the South Korean military is keen on enhancing its surveillance and reconnaissance capability. In a briefing for President Park Geun-hye on April 1, 2013, the National Defense Minister said the military is mapping out “an active deterrence and will build an attack system to swiftly neutralize North Korea’s nuclear and missile threats, while significantly improving our military’s capability of surveillance and reconnaissance.†ISR and Deep Infiltration to strike strategic targets would seem to favor the F-35. For some reasons the commenter with the made up numbers didn't bother to read the article. There is a lot more than just cost to consider, if its about buying the cheapest plane, they can just grab KAI T-50s and call it a day. But If Korea is thinking about going north in reactive or even preemptive strikes that changes things. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 And I love the French response on Rafale...look at how it dominated the contested airspace over Afghanistan, Libya and Mali... :rolleyes:/> Clearly an indicator of its ability to hang with 5th generation Chinese fighters. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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