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And a Patriots fan...:o/>/>...:blink:/>/>...

KIDDING! Written to be funny...:wave:/>/>

:cheers:/>/>

I'll fess up. I'm from the south. Southern MA, Plymouth County. Truly the heartland of America :)/>

Via - Call it want you want but to claim that VT is something close to a conservative bastion is pushing things just a bit. I thought they voted in a Socialist? Could be wrong but what if the AF based the jets there and the state went red and decided to sell those F-35's to the North Koreans? Personally, I just don't want to take the chance. Just doesn't sit well.....

Don't need that unit to protect Boston anyway, last I checked we've got the Massholes of the 104th FW at Barnes ANGB that do a fine job.

Bottom line is that just maybe, the F-35 isn't a great fit in an area like Burlington. Doesn't matter to me either way but it seems like a good majority of the folks in the area (the city, not those 50 miles away in the country) seem to feel that way.

Back to our regular programming now and GO PAT's!

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Bottom line is that just maybe, the F-35 isn't a great fit in an area like Burlington. Doesn't matter to me either way but it seems like a good majority of the folks in the area (the city, not those 50 miles away in the country) seem to feel that way.

Wrong. A vocal minority. There's LOTS of VTANG F-35 stickers on cars around here and most of them are not on the cars of VTANG members. If a few people post 1000 times each that they hate the F-35, that doesn't make them a majority.

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Wrong. A vocal minority. There's LOTS of VTANG F-35 stickers on cars around here and most of them are not on the cars of VTANG members. If a few people post 1000 times each that they hate the F-35, that doesn't make them a majority.

How many of those stickers are on local cars? Regardless, it's not up for a vote. We'll see how it plays out...,

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http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=22825&t=1

How great are the Dutch?

From the guy himself who was actually pretty honest:

During a town hall meeting in New Hampshire, Josh asked Senator Bernie Sanders about this. Here is the video transcribed:

Josh: "...You work on limiting the influence of money in politics, yet at the same time you continue to support wasteful contracts from companies such as Lockheed Martin with the F-35 for instance. So what steps are you willing to take to limit the influence of companies in politics, not only on campaigns, but in policy making as well?”

Senator Sanders: "What part of the F-35? What are my options as a Senator? …if I said no to the F-35 coming to Burlington, for Vermont National Guard where would it go?... South Carolina?

My choice as a Senator, this is not a debate 20 years ago when we saw the F-35, which was very, very costly and is a huge cost overall. It’s the debate that the F-35 is here, it goes to South Carolina, or Florida, or in the state of Vermont. And I wanted it to come to the state of Vermont. Now in terms of the military spending in general, that’s another broader issue. Are we spending too much? Yes, we are. Have there been, more…well back up for a minute…we are spending too much, we should cut it.

The F-35, you have to in politics, it’s not and people do this I don’t mean to be critical, but you gotta look at where somebody is at the moment. If the debate is if somebody comes to you and says “Look, I’m thinking about building this super plane deal, it’s gonna cost huge sums of money, what do you think?” That’s, and maybe say no, no I think that’s a good idea, maybe we’ll go with the F-16. So then I responded. Are you about to say something?”

Josh: "No."

Sen. Sanders continues: “That’s where, in the real world, if the plan is built, and it is the plan that the U.S. Navy and the U.S. Air Force and of NATO, and if the choice is if that goes to Vermont, North Carolina-not North Carolina, South Carolina, or Florida, what is your choice as a United States Senator? Do you want it to go to South Carolina? You’re not saving anybody any money. So you have to look at these things in a, and it becomes complicated, and good friends can disagree on that. But my view is that given the reality of the damn plane, I’d rather it come to Vermont than to South Carolina. And that’s what the Vermont National Guard wants, and that means hundreds of jobs in my city. That’s it.”

I don't think they are going anywhere. F-35s to Vermont. They NIMBY people are not going to win this case, especially if the complaint is about noise because all the Government has to do is produce proven and tested numbers. What in legal circles is called "evidence" its very compelling.

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I am sure this has been written in this thread somewhere, but aside from Vermont (possibly) what other National Guard units will receive/would like to receive the F-35?

:cheers:

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I am sure this has been written in this thread somewhere, but aside from Vermont (possibly) what other National Guard units will receive/would like to receive the F-35?

:cheers:

Just about any of them, especially around BRAC time. I know that's not a fun specific answer to get the building juices flowing, but the truth is with all the cuts etc most places will be more than happy to take Th3 jobs, as Bern alluded to. He did mention south Carolina a couple times...

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I've heard SC mentioned a few times, but I wouldn't be surprised if they end up like how the VA ANG ended up (gave up their F-16s, moved from Richmond to Langley to borrow F-22s) and share jets with Shaw. Oklahoma also wants the F-35.

Edited by Trigger
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Back to news. It's no secret the F-35A falls woefully sheet in CAS.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/09/politics/a-10-warthog-replacement/index.html

What is shocking is CNN was a reasonable source.

And you thought people were mad when the F-35 was going to replace the Mighty A-10? Wait until its replaced with a COTS prop job:

AF-29-Tucano-hatch-open-620x465.jpg

Gun too small, not enough armor. Probably too fast too.

The A-10 replacement needs skintanium armor, a 31MM gun that is twice as long and one engine to go even slower, and don't forget this for the trees it will fly through

cowcatcher.jpg

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I had to check on the date of that article as ALIS was identified as an issue in April of 2015. I heard McMaverick screaming about something on NPR a couple of days back, this must have been what it was about. Oddly enough, around that same time his Campaign Fundraiser was being arrested at her home because there was a meth lab there, along with unspecified quantities of LSD, cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine, about $7,000 in loose currency, and counterfeit money. A separate building on the property was found to have a hidden room that was to be used as a marijuana-grow facility.

Yeah, I think McMaverick's got bigger problems closer to home. Especially since a group of four Marine maintainers from MCAS Beaufort (the training hub for the F-35B for both the USMC and the UK), told reporters during an April 14, 2016 visit that ALIS has made their life easier.

One Marine cited the direction it gives a team of maintainers.“Walking you step through step. There’s literally a signoff for every task you do, every action you do,” he said.

“Compared to how it was originally, it’s night and day,” said another when asked about updates to the system. “The transition has been good. Every upgrade they do is easy to get ahold of, get your head around. It’s been pretty consistent as far as maintainability.”

All four men also agreed that they would recommend ALIS, or some equivalent system, for future aircraft, although they noted that logistically it would be almost impossible to retrofit such a system to existing aircraft like the F-18.

Part of the benefit of the system, the maintainers said, was the support Lockheed provides. Because ALIS is tied into Lockheed’s system, and because Lockheed contractors are integrated into the maintenance teams at Beaufort, needed parts can come quickly.

“There is a benefit to F-35 when you have a parts availability issue we can talk directly to Lockheed Martin and tell them this jet is non mission capable because of this part and they’re going to work as hard as they can to get us that part as quickly as possible,” the first maintainer said. “We can get that part in a matter of days as opposed to months.”

Another Marine compared that to the F-18, where sometimes one jet need to be “cannibalized” in order to come up with a needed part for another.

Overall, maintenance on the F-35 is “ten times easier” than on an F-18, said the first maintainer. He acknowledged that the low-observable capabilities “can slow you down at times, but it’s obviously a needed weapon system so worth the pace we have to stall on.”

Concluded a third Marine, “I am more than satisfied with it and seeing it grow and seeing it change. There’s not as much troubleshooting anymore so maintenance times are definitely up.”

The Marines also noted how the UK maintainers working at Beaufort have integrated smoothly with their US counterparts, noting they all work interchangeably on American or UK jets.

Source

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a group of four Marine maintainers from MCAS Beaufort (the training hub for the F-35B for both the USMC and the UK), told reporters during an April 14, 2016 visit that ALIS has made their life easier.

One Marine cited the direction it gives a team of maintainers.“Walking you step through step. There’s literally a signoff for every task you do, every action you do,” he said.

“Compared to how it was originally, it’s night and day,” said another when asked about updates to the system. “The transition has been good. Every upgrade they do is easy to get ahold of, get your head around. It’s been pretty consistent as far as maintainability.”

All four men also agreed that they would recommend ALIS, or some equivalent system, for future aircraft, although they noted that logistically it would be almost impossible to retrofit such a system to existing aircraft like the F-18.

Part of the benefit of the system, the maintainers said, was the support Lockheed provides. Because ALIS is tied into Lockheed’s system, and because Lockheed contractors are integrated into the maintenance teams at Beaufort, needed parts can come quickly.

That IS huge. When I was a Marine maintainer, cannibalization was an issue that kept a larger fraction of the Harrier fleet down than I care to admit. Not exactly sure what ALIS is, but it seems to mean some sort of parts interchangeability program between branches and contractors. With older systems, in my experience with the Harrier, there were so few parts we could get. I don't want to get into too much detail, but the only things we could get across platform were MAYBE bolts, washers, nuts (had to be the same size as well as have a rating for certain heat ranges) and o-rings. There were times when a missing .25 inch rubber o-ring kept an engine out of a bird for months. Then there were some gasket issues that only applied to the Harrier because of its thrust vectoring capability.

There are always proponents of some plan to retro-fit a platform with a new maintenance system, usually through some sort of Airspeed initiative, but it just isn't practical to open back up production lines for these antiquated systems. If the F-35 stays in service as long as the Hornets and Vipers, then it seems our investments in integrated supply and maintenance structures will actually save us money in the coming decades. This heavily depends on the F-35 being what we hope it is in the long run. From an outsider's point of view, attaching supplies to a single company that holds a monopoly on producing parts is justifiably undesirable. But at the unit level this makes a lot of sense. You spend a LOT extra for 'peace of mind' and ease of repairability.

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From an outsider's point of view, attaching supplies to a single company that holds a monopoly on producing parts is justifiably undesirable.

Right but Isn't that true across every platform?

Aren't parts produced by thousands of sub contractors as It is?

How do you have "competition" when the government fully controls who gets the contracts and funding and development dollars?

Competition makes sense in some cases, and I belive in the free market but defense contracting is not very free market.

I think the concept of "competition" is created by defense contractors. That way two companies profit, the taxpayer pays double, and when you pay double for something you don't Save unless the savings exceed 50 percent. Look at LCS and check out the "savings" it's really hard to make the case that one company felt pressure when both had contacts already.

I understand preserving the industrial base, and I do believe it's secure for the most part. But there is a ridiculously thin line between competition and redundancy

Edited by TaiidanTomcat
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Isn't that true across every platform?

Aren't parts produced by thousands of sub contractors?

How do you have "competition" when the government fully controls who gets the contracts and funding and development dollars?

Competition makes sense in some cases, and I belive in the free market but defense contracting is not very free market.

I think the concept of "competition" is created by defense contractors. That way two companies profit, the taxpayer pays double, and when you pay double for something you don't Save unless the savings exceed 50 percent. Look at LCS and check out the "savings"

I understand preserving the industrial base, and I do believe it's secure for the most part. But there is a ridiculously thin line between competition and redundancy

I don't know what LCS is, but...

Competition in the direct sense is tough for cases like this. We are talking about a platform which will probably dominate the three fixed-wing branches for decades. This is kind of like when our military made the jump from muskets to rifles because of the advent of interchangeable parts. It's a necessary oversimplification to say one company will have the functional monopoly for production and distribution for spares. Most likely, the "free market" will operate under Lockheed as the company tries to source out materials and parts. But there will be much interference... there always is

Now for the business end.... this is where it gets ugly and where the public gets disillusioned. When Congress appropriates funds for the F-35, it's not going to be a just few lines in an overall budget. It's going to be a giant stack of papers that delegate production to select areas, in select districts represented by select Senators and Congresspeople. It won't go by what's cheapest, it will go by who is "owed" a favor. Senator Mouth Blisters helped Senator Herpes-Butt with a Federal judge appointment, therefore a favor is owed: Sen. Mouth Blisters knows when he gets the subcontract in his district, this will aid in his reelection.

But we will tolerate this because we know the only way the F-35 will live up to Lockheed's promises is when the total infrastructure is intact. Despite the ugly parts of this deal, the integration will probably still be cheaper than the old way of doing things.

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I don't know what LCS is, but...

Littoral Combat ship^

COPENHAGEN, April 28 (Reuters) - Denmark should buy 28 of Lockheed Martin's F35 Lightning fighter jets to replace its present F16 jets, an expert group formed by the Danish Ministry of Defence has recommended to the government, according to local radio.

The group found that the Lightning was better than Eurofighter's Typhoon and Boeing Co's F/A-18E/F Super Hornet in four priority areas: military combat, economy, strategics and Danish industrial cooperation with the producer, Radio24syv said citing sources close to the negotiations.

The expert group recommended that Denmark should buy 28 fighter jets from Lockheed Martin, it said.

Denmark's decision will be closely watched, as several other nations also have to decide whether to replace their aged warplanes with Lockheed Martin Corp's brand new F-35 or play safe with cheaper, older-generation planes such the Super Hornets.

Now it is up to the government and the political parties supporting the purchase of new fighter jets to decide which one to pick.

Denmark's Defence Ministry did not reply to requests from Reuters. Spokesmen from various political parties declined to comment.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/f35-fighter-jets-recommended-danish-113528877.html

Pratt & Whitney expects to wrap up system development and demonstration (SDD) of the F135 propulsion system for the F-35 Lightning II in July after 15 years of work, but the company will remain engaged with the wider Joint Strike Fighter flight test effort which runs until late 2017.

More at the break:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/pw-wrapping-up-f135-engine-development-424810/

Edited by TaiidanTomcat
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For anyone confused, Denmark was in a somewhat similar boat to Canada, in that they became part of the JSF program as a Tier 3 partner, but then restarted their fighter competition in 2013. They've been running the competition for the past few years and have (unofficially, the official announcement should come soon) reselected the F-35. Unlike the RNAF, the RDAF had not previously ordered any aircraft.

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