82Whitey51 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 2 hours ago, TaiidanTomcat said: If they can't fly without ALIS, and ALIS is still not full up. How have F-35s been flying the last 10 years? You can't imagine avaition logistics computers and software operating in Afghanistan or Iraq? “uncertain how long the F-35 can effectively operate” if the Autonomic Logistics Information System, or ALIS becomes “disconnected from the aircraft,” the report states. "the 2015 Steel Knight exercise near Twentynine Palms, California, the Corps recorded “issues related to the tents used to house the ALIS” and the “need for maintaining network connectivity, and the limited reach-back support for ALIS,” according to the GAO report. "They also reported the need for classified facilities “to meet basic cooling and power requirements for housing the ALIS servers,” I dunno...can it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, 82Whitey51 said: “uncertain how long the F-35 can effectively operate” if the Autonomic Logistics Information System, or ALIS becomes “disconnected from the aircraft,” the report states. "the 2015 Steel Knight exercise near Twentynine Palms, California, the Corps recorded “issues related to the tents used to house the ALIS” and the “need for maintaining network connectivity, and the limited reach-back support for ALIS,” according to the GAO report. "They also reported the need for classified facilities “to meet basic cooling and power requirements for housing the ALIS servers,” I dunno...can it? No it can't. F-35s have only been flying with virgin sacrifices to the voodoo gods with Marines since 2012. Its why you can't find any virgins around Marines Edited May 2, 2018 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, 11bee said: So by your logic above, sounds like ALIS is "full up"? Thank goodness, I thought this day would never arrive. It will never be full up. EVER Quote As far as point #2, wouldn't you say that ALIS is a bit more than just a "aviation logistics computer". Ok what is it specifically? I'm all ears. Quote As far as operating in environments like Afghanistan or Iraq, from the article MarkW linked: When the Corps transferred the F-35 to Japan in 2017 after-action reports revealed the need to consider weather issues when shipping the ALIS system. “While the aircraft were transferred to Japan through Alaska, ALIS was moved through Hawaii because of concerns about how the freezing temperature would affect the logistics system.” Sounds like the system might be a bit "fragile", so yes, it's probably worth asking the question as to how well the system can function in an austere, forward deployed location. How does the current system handle this, and can you name it? Quote A bit OT to your post but I would also wonder how durable ALIS is against cyber attacks. It seems that if someone was able to corrupt the system, it could pretty much be a "mission kill" for the entire F-35 force. Thankfully, none of our potential adversaries would fight us in such an underhanded manner. How does the current system handle this, and can you name it? Edited May 2, 2018 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 24 minutes ago, TaiidanTomcat said: It will never be full up. EVER Ok what is it specifically? I'm all ears. How does the current system handle this, and can you name it? How does the current system handle this, and can you name it? #1 - Sorry to hear that, I know everyone had such high hopes for this system. #2 - To refer to ALIS as just another "aviation logistics computer" really does it a disservice, wouldn't you agree? Maybe call it the "All Thinking, All Knowing, All Seeing, Mother of Everything That Involves the JSF and if Mother is Having a Bad Day, the JSF Doesn't Fly"? #3 - There is no equivalent to ALIS. Nothing else comes close to it's scope. So there is no "current system". If you feel that the military currently is operating something equivalent to ALIS, can you name it? #4 - See #3. Regards, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 "Its why you can't find any virgins around Marines"... Carry on... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, 11bee said: #1 - Sorry to hear that, I know everyone had such high hopes for this system. #2 - To refer to ALIS as just another "aviation logistics computer" really does it a disservice, wouldn't you agree? Maybe call it the "All Thinking, All Knowing, All Seeing, Mother of Everything That Involves the JSF and if Mother is Having a Bad Day, the JSF Doesn't Fly"? #3 - There is no equivalent to ALIS. Nothing else comes close to it's scope. So there is no "current system". If you feel that the military currently is operating something equivalent to ALIS, can you name it? #4 - See #3. Regards, John You basically have no basis to compare the troubles with ALIS with current avaition admin systems and logisitics systems in place, so all snark aside I want to know what the current system is and comparative failure rates, cyber security, down times, and other problems current systems utilized in the Navy and USMC especially overseas. Since you can't even name it I'll assume you don't know anything about the either that or ALIS. Whats frustrating about this is, the current system blows up and screws up all the time, but thats fine. No worries there since the F-35 catches all the headlines. Surely ALIS is much much worse. Its the same problem we saw earlier in the thread when we had Whitey freaking out about F-35 ready rates only to discover the older Hornets are actually doing worse. But thats ok. Thats fine. No one cares when a system crash effects the entire fleet of a certain legacy aircraft. Thats boring. "I have no idea what we are using now, but it has to be better!!' Nope. If you don't have anything to compare it to, what do you really know? and are you actually interested in learning? or is it just a whine fest? You think the current system doesn't have deployability and connection issues? Have a good one. not going to waste my time explaining the differences and even if I could, it would be met with more of the same so I'll bow out. Edited May 2, 2018 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, TaiidanTomcat said: You basically have no basis to compare the troubles with ALIS with current avaition admin systems and logisitics systems in place, so all snark aside I want to know what the current system is and comparative failure rates, cyber security, down times, and other problems current systems utilized in the Navy and USMC especially overseas. Since you can't even name it I'll assume you don't know anything about the either that or ALIS. Have a good one. not going to waste my time explaining the differences and even if I could, it would be met with more of the same so I'll bow out. No worries at all TT, you have a good one as well! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Matt Foley Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 16 minutes ago, Don said: "Its why you can't find any virgins around Marines"... Carry on... R.I.P. Gunny the world of political correctness just became stronger....unfortunately.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 I ain't freaking out...I don't have to rely on it. The same system must control the CAC card system because I can never get one of those without showing up to be told the system is down. Ya know what works...:? A-10s. 🏍️💨 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkW Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 Apparently F-35s work too, despite all the armchairing here. We always had a bet on who'd be first, my money was always on Israel. https://www.defensenews.com/breaking-news/2018/05/22/the-f-35-just-made-its-combat-debut/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking news-5-22&utm_term=Editorial - Breaking News I'd love to know exactly what ordnance they used. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Well thats that Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Israel - also known as the Eastern Test Range. That’s not a political or nationalistic statement, just saying it is the first place US hardware gets combat tested, more often than not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Ooo...Flyoff! This thread has been dormant long enough! https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a22118621/f35-a10-warthog-flyoff-pogo-report/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 http://www.pogo.org/straus/issues/weapons/2018/close-air-support-fly-off-farce.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Waste of time and money, and I didnt expect POGO suddenly drop the A-10 and favor the F-35 ever. When this whole thing was brought up years ago, I predicted that if the F-35 won people would simply dismiss it. How the test is set up would favor the winner F-35 cant win, even when it does. Imagine the mighty Tomcat flying against the super hornet in the early 2000s... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 I figure they could have saved a bunch of time and money and simply asked the customer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, 82Whitey51 said: I figure they could have saved a bunch of time and money and simply asked the customer. You mean just ask the military government employees who use and work with these aircraft every day, including the F-35 guys with A-10 backgrounds?? Then there would be no need for the DOT&E tests, and that's just silly Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 17 minutes ago, TaiidanTomcat said: You mean just ask the military government employees who use and work with these aircraft every day, including the F-35 guys with A-10 backgrounds?? Then there would be no need for the DOT&E tests, and that's just silly No...the grunts on the ground. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, 82Whitey51 said: No...the grunts on the ground. Indeed. We are noble savages, and our opinion is all that matters I would think grunts would be included in the "worked with" category, but hey. The grunts are all in lockstep agreement on this one actually. We would all rather die than get direct support from anything other than an A-10 there i said it. Literally die. Harriers actually have superb safety records but grunts on ship like to sabotage them, what's a harrier anyway? We want A-10s not an airshow gimmick. We lost a lot of good men as well with the brutal but important "no casevac unless it's a huey" policy. Skids or bust. It's been really awkward all these years when other platforms show up, and of course there hasn't ever been an A-10 in Marine inventory, so the whole usmc wing is basically a farce. Double awkward since we're a grunt force, by and for grunts (but never bought A-10s?!) The US alsos send other aircraft and even CVNs to the middle east. I have no idea why really. CVNs dont have A-10s. Why do they bother? Boredom? Budget? I have no clue. Why? Why? There is not a single naval aviator wearing those wings of fools gold that has actually provided grunt approved CAS, since the introduction of the A-10 (this is back when it was a tank killer, before it was grunt support king) And I've lost track of how many troops in contact and CAS engagements always end with "oh so you have ordnance and fuel but aren't an A-10? Well thanks for calling I guess. We'll let you know." Feel like a real weight is lifted off my shoulders here. Now everyone knows. Not only is the F-35 not an A-10, but nothing else is either. And its A-10s or nothing. So the navy, marines, big air force and of course our allies (not even one A-10 amongst the lot!!) Can stop bothering with the charade now. The noble grunt has spoken. I speak for all grunts and let it be known, that the F-35 is not grunt approved, and the services had better act accordingly Cancel the test, then cancel the F-35. And question. Does the navy consult the USMC, and especially seek out the opinions of 03s before it makes any choices and strategic decisions? Because that's never been my experience. So When did that change? I dont like being used as a pawn. The "wont someone think of the grunts" argument has become sickening to be honest. Edited July 14, 2018 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 This is not about operational capabilities, it is about politicians getting (re)elected on the promise of F-35 production-related jobs in their district(s). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 1 hour ago, habu2 said: This is not about operational capabilities, it is about politicians getting (re)elected on the promise of F-35 production-related jobs in their district(s). But what do the grunts think? We're like the soccer moms, or whatever voting block is always critical to win over Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 31 minutes ago, TaiidanTomcat said: But what do the grunts think? We're like the soccer moms, or whatever voting block is always critical to win over I guess ask them... Sure other aircraft can provide CAS (sheit a P-3 can) but I know what I'd want...better yet, ask the Taliban 😂🤣 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Murph Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 2 hours ago, habu2 said: This is not about operational capabilities, it is about politicians getting (re)elected on the promise of F-35 production-related jobs in their district(s). Like the politicians that have a Guard/Reserve A-10 unit in their state? I've often wondered what the esteemed Senator from Arizona's reaction would be if the USAF said the A-10 was the greatest thing since sliced bread and planned to keep them till 2525, but they had to move all of those airframes in Arizona to another state or country to best support the troops on the ground. Regards, Murph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Yes the axe swings both ways, but neither viewpoint takes the realities of airframe capabilities - or grunt experience - into consideration. It’s all about jobs and re-elections. Age, history and experience have made me cynical, I admit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nspreitler Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 1 hour ago, 82Whitey51 said: I guess ask them... Sure other aircraft can provide CAS (sheit a P-3 can) but I know what I'd want...better yet, ask the Taliban 😂🤣 As someone who has called for a lot of CAS, the A-10 is great, so are the B-1, F-16, F-15E, MQ-1, MQ-9, and many others. The Iraqi Air Force did well with Cessna Caravans. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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