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6 minutes ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Is it common knowledge the Russian S-400 system can track the F-35 family?

Interesting, and yet not unexpected, statement from our sole in-house Russia supporter.   

 

I'll bite on this one - aside from Russian inspired information pulled off the internet, that (based on events currently taking place in another Eastern European country) have pretty much been proven to complete propaganda, how did you determine that the S-400 can track the F-35?  

 

You must be employed in a very technical role with either a western or the Russian military I presume.   Please provide your background and the raw data so we can peer review your claim.

 

Thanks comrade!   

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10 hours ago, GreyGhost said:

Okay, after my credit check approval, where do I sign ..? :coolio:

 

-Gregg

I'll PM you the credit app and once completed, please return, along with 50,000 bitcoin down payment to 11Bee Aviation Procurement Enterprises.   Our friendly 11B-APE sales team will then get you set up on a payment plan and work out delivery details for your brand new F-35! 

 

Please select on the credit app which model you prefer.   You can also select any color for your new F-35, just as long as it's "LM Shiny Dark Grey"*.   

 

* Please note - LM Shiny Dark Grey is considered a Premium Coating and is available only at an additional 10,000 bitcoin upcharge. 

 

Looking forward to hearing back from you soon! 

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1 hour ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Is it common knowledge the Russian S-400 system can track the F-35 family?

 

Tracking the airframe? or the reflectors commonly mounted on routine/training flights?

 

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5 hours ago, 11bee said:

I'll PM you the credit app and once completed, please return, along with 50,000 bitcoin down payment to 11Bee Aviation Procurement Enterprises.   Our friendly 11B-APE sales team will then get you set up on a payment plan and work out delivery details for your brand new F-35! 

 

Please select on the credit app which model you prefer.   You can also select any color for your new F-35, just as long as it's "LM Shiny Dark Grey"*.   

 

* Please note - LM Shiny Dark Grey is considered a Premium Coating and is available only at an additional 10,000 bitcoin upcharge. 

 

Looking forward to hearing back from you soon! 

 

:rofl::worship:

 

Reminds me of this video ...

Caution, NSFW language ...

Enjoy ...

 

-Gregg

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5 hours ago, habu2 said:

 

Tracking the airframe? or the reflectors commonly mounted on routine/training flights?

 

Im not sure either way habu2.
Its not something I have a lot of information on, thats why I asked here. I was more searching for information as I was giving it.

 

6 hours ago, 11bee said:

Interesting, and yet not unexpected, statement from our sole in-house Russia supporter.   

 

I'll bite on this one - aside from Russian inspired information pulled off the internet, that (based on events currently taking place in another Eastern European country) have pretty much been proven to complete propaganda, how did you determine that the S-400 can track the F-35?  

 

You must be employed in a very technical role with either a western or the Russian military I presume.   Please provide your background and the raw data so we can peer review your claim.

 

Thanks comrade!   

I can go full on if you like. or you can just wind your neck in and accept not everybody is as invested in your world view as you are.

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2 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

 

 

I can go full on if you like. or you can just wind your neck in and accept not everybody is as invested in your world view as you are.

Don’t bother.  That being said, the way you phrased your question seemed to imply that you felt the S400 could track the F-35.    I was just hoping you could provide some details to the class.   

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F-117, F-22 & F-35 typically fly with radar reflectors mounted, SOP to greatly increase the RCS for obvious reasons. Your local constable could probably "track" one with his traffic radar gun......

 

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1 hour ago, 11bee said:

Don’t bother.  That being said, the way you phrased your question seemed to imply that you felt the S400 could track the F-35.    I was just hoping you could provide some details to the class.   

I dont know myself. The story I got told was there S-400 uses or can use 3 different radars to search and or track the aerospace and one of those types can see the F-35. I cant remember what band it was. L-Band maybe.

If you google this "Hensoldt says it tracked the new American jets for nearly 100 miles."
Then you can chose a website for yourself to see the story from a few years ago.

 

habu2
So if you discount the radar reflectors. then it is your opinion that it is impossible to track an F-35 on the S-400 radars?

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1 hour ago, ElectroSoldier said:

I dont know myself. The story I got told was there S-400 uses or can use 3 different radars to search and or track the aerospace and one of those types can see the F-35. I cant remember what band it was. L-Band maybe.
So if you discount the radar reflectors. then it is your opinion that it is impossible to track an F-35 on the S-400 radars?

FWIW, I'd say if the conditions are favorable to the S-400, it probably can track the F-35 but it is heavily dependent on so many different factors including range, target aspect, altitude, weather conditions, etc.  The F-35 has an extremely low radar cross section but that's not to say the thing is invisible.   All that being said, I'd like to think that a good pilot would use his EW gear to identify all enemy radars within a certain range and take measure to minimize any chance of detection, by changing course, putting some terrain features in the way, changing it's aspect to the radar or maybe even using some active EW techniques.  Who knows, just my uneducated guess. 

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11 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

habu2

So if you discount the radar reflectors. then it is your opinion that it is impossible to track an F-35 on the S-400 radars?

 

I have no opinion on that. I am stating the Fact that it is SOP to fly with reflectors in a peacetime environment when there is the possibility of being painted by any radar, specifically to greatly magnify the RCS.  If you don't understand the logic behind that then further speculation on your part is pointless. 

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No aircraft is totally "invisible".  Usually in analyses of 'when can it see me' scenarios, the phrase "tactically significant ranges" comes into play.  If the F-35 (or any other low observable aircraft) flies close enough to a radar, it will eventually be 'seen'.  However, if the aircraft can launch/release its weapon before it reaches that range, then it has the advantage.  So if stealth reduces the radar's tactically significant range for tracking the aircraft to 20 miles (a made-up number), but the aircraft has a weapon with a range of 30 miles, the radar will not see the aircraft before the weapon hits.  And as mentioned above, that's not even considering any electronic jamming that might be going on.

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Its interesting. We have gone from any talk about it being possible is heresy to its perfectly possible but the edge it gives it what counts...

 

1 hour ago, habu2 said:

 

I have no opinion on that. I am stating the Fact that it is SOP to fly with reflectors in a peacetime environment when there is the possibility of being painted by any radar, specifically to greatly magnify the RCS.  If you don't understand the logic behind that then further speculation on your part is pointless. 

Forget the reflectors mate. Stop obsessing over them. Especially now as the F-35s over central Europe have had them taken off.

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As far as the F-35 being detected by an S400, and at what distance, or anything else in that area of performance, when it comes down to it, it's possible no one really knows.  If the time comes, there may be things that get put into place that aren't being used now that would change the equation.

 

In general, I find that those who talk don't know, and those that know, don't talk.

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1 hour ago, Ken Cartwright said:

As far as the F-35 being detected by an S400, and at what distance, or anything else in that area of performance, when it comes down to it, it's possible no one really knows.  If the time comes, there may be things that get put into place that aren't being used now that would change the equation.

 

In general, I find that those who talk don't know, and those that know, don't talk.

 

That last part is exactly what I thought when I was having the conversation I was having on the matter Ken Cartwright.
 

As far as I was aware they, together with the F-22 and B-2A basically invisible to radar.

The F-117 that got shot down was either a blip or suffered from the fact it was an early adopter of the technology as it were.

Anybody who knows wouldnt say either way. But then you come to the article I said to google above which made me question it. And having gotten the answers I have here then I would say the best answer is nobody really knows.

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I took your suggestion and did a search about Hensoldt, and it doesn't really seem to be significant.  First, it's a radar manufacturer touting what their product can do, so while I am not saying that they're lying, they would certainly present it in the best light possible.

 

From there, it turns out that the F-35s in question had their reflectors on, and were transmitting their transponders.  Hensoldt claims that wouldn't make a difference, but the bottom line is, not only were those aircraft not trying to be stealthy, they were, in fact, trying to be seen.  I'm not sure that's really representative of an operational outcome.

 

This article seems to give a pretty objective analysis of the situation:

https://theaviationist.com/2019/09/30/lets-talk-about-the-story-of-a-german-radar-vendor-that-claims-to-have-tracked-two-f-35s-with-passive-radar/

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On 4/28/2022 at 12:32 PM, Ken Cartwright said:

Resurrecting this thread for this article.  This pilot seems like a real F-35 cheerleader, but I still think some of the insights are interesting, and more detail about some things than I was expecting.

 

https://theaviationist.com/2022/04/07/f-35-interview-with-billie-flynn/


A few of us who are members here served with Flynn, he is an excellent well experienced fighter pilot. He served in the RCAF, and on exchange with the RAF and USAF. He flown flown most of the current modern frontline fighters, so he can speak from experience. He was also the Chief Pilot in the F-35 program.

 

He was also previously married to Canadian Astronaut, and real world witch, Julie Payette. 

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7 hours ago, Scooby said:

 

He was also previously married to Canadian Astronaut, and real world witch, Julie Payette. 

Hmm....    If you're a guy, you're just a hard charging stud who holds people accountable.   If you're a female, you're a witch / bad girl.    

 

Flynn has an amazing background as a pilot, just need to know going into that he's in sales, so by default need to take everything he's saying with at least a small grain of salt. 

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2 hours ago, 11bee said:

Hmm....    If you're a guy, you're just a hard charging stud who holds people accountable.   If you're a female, you're a witch / bad girl.    

 

Flynn has an amazing background as a pilot, just need to know going into that he's in sales, so by default need to take everything he's saying with at least a small grain of salt. 

I had never heard of Julie Payette before Scooby's message, so I looked her up, and she had a lot of problems in government and had to resign, so I don't think this is a sexist view, she had legitimate issues and Trudeau asked her to resign.

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/gov-gen-julie-payette-resigns-says-i-am-sorry-after-tensions-have-arisen-at-rideau-hall-1.5276646

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6 hours ago, 11bee said:

Hmm....    If you're a guy, you're just a hard charging stud who holds people accountable.   If you're a female, you're a witch / bad girl.    

 

Flynn has an amazing background as a pilot, just need to know going into that he's in sales, so by default need to take everything he's saying with at least a small grain of salt. 

In this case GG Payette was NOT some one who you wished to work for. MANY validated complaints from MANY different government employees. As the Queens representative in her role of Governor General she is held to a much higher standard. One she did not handle well at all. I have never heard of a Governor General being asked to step down before.  It was rather big news in Canada a couple years ago.

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