F-35 news roundup

[TaiidanTomcat]

So, when security on this program is hacked, its not a big deal when its with some partner nation's sub contractor yet we can't even see a fire damaged airframe because it might compromise the security of the program?

Just wanted to make sure I understand.

I guess you can see it if you are willing to break the law. Does that clarify?

I also have no idea what they hacked from the Danes, so I can't tell you how big a deal it is. Its not good, but I know that a lot of people (who again, have no idea what was or wasn't compromised, and if they did how that fits into the larger pciture) are going to make the giant leap that the whole thing is now compromised.

[Trigger]

It's gray.

DUDE!! OPSEC!! You want our enemies to know that?!

Let us hope the Chinese didn't find this out when they hacked Denmark's systems.

[Trigger]

Whoa. Deja vu.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Trigger

[TaiidanTomcat]

Let us hope the Chinese didn't find this out when they hacked Denmark's systems.

They were only doing it on behalf of the Iranians who need a more realistic finish for their scale models:

[Don]

Clearly you don't understand. For the millionth time, for you and everyone else who doesn't seem to get it, it has nothing to do with security. It has everything to do with this being an ongoing, active investigation into a class A mishap.

If you're getting your panties so damn knotted over this issue, I suggest you file a freedom of information act request. See how far that gets you.

Well put Sir . But sadly me thinks the "millionth time" will still not be enough for some... <_<

[Trigger]

They were only doing it on behalf of the Iranians who need a more realistic finish for their scale models:

Now I know why that "plane" looks so familiar.

[GreyGhost]

Clearly you don't understand. For the millionth time, for you and everyone else who doesn't seem to get it, it has nothing to do with security. It has everything to do with this being an ongoing, active investigation into a class A mishap.

If you're getting your panties so damn knotted over this issue, I suggest you file a freedom of information act request. See how far that gets you.

You guys originslly brought up the "security" excuse in the first place.

It wasn't until Joe mentioned the Mishap Investigation as a probable reason.

Also, this thread doesn't have a "million" responses so, exagerate much?

I'll just ask the Chinese, they probably already have photos ...

-Gregg

[TaiidanTomcat]

You guys originslly brought up the "security" excuse in the first place.

I brought it up and it still stands.

It wasn't until Joe mentioned the Mishap Investigation as a probable reason.

Also, this thread doesn't have a "million" responses so, exagerate much? :rolleyes:/>

Its almost like there can be multiple reasons why the pictures aren't released... Can there be more than one? no, surely thats impossible?

I'll just ask the Chinese, they probably already have photos ...

-Gregg

You should. have fun.

[GreyGhost]

>>> Article <<<

I guess they haven't had time to fully prepare ... :coolio:/>

-Gregg

(I know, it's probably bad reporting...)

[GreyGhost]

I brought it up and it still stands.

<...>

You and Mark should talk more then.

-Gregg

[Ken Cartwright]

So, when security on this program is hacked, its not a big deal when its with some partner nation's sub contractor yet we can't even see a fire damaged airframe because it might compromise the security of the program?

Just wanted to make sure I understand.

So, you're argument is that because some country (probably the Chinese) managed to hack into a sub-contractor's system and get some undisclosed information about the F-35, the photos should be released? Anything else that should be released? I mean, heck, if security in some areas has been compromised, might as well just pick other stuff too, even if it has nothing to do with the information gained from the contractor.

These posts about pictures of the fire are honestly starting to sound like birthers to me.

[GreyGhost]

Actually Ken, my point was more about the blasie attitude of the hack.

Thank you for your opinion though.

-Gregg

Edited September 30, 2014 by GreyGhost

[MarkW]

You guys originslly brought up the "security" excuse in the first place.

It wasn't until Joe mentioned the Mishap Investigation as a probable reason.

Also, this thread doesn't have a "million" responses so, exagerate much? :rolleyes:/>

I'll just ask the Chinese, they probably already have photos ...

-Gregg

Get your facts straight. I never once brought up the subject of security as an excuse. If you go back through my post, you'll see you that everything was in the context of it being an active investigation. But hey, why bother when you can take a cheap shot.

And sorry if it truly wasn't 1 million times of been brought up. But repeating myself over and over to people who are truly ignorant of even basic military matters, or even gneral aviation at all does tend to get a bit frustrating.

[GreyGhost]

I didn't initiate the "Security" excuse either. Did I point you out specifically?, no, I said "You guys" in reference to the F-35 praisers.

And you're one to talk about the art of the cheap shot. You take it to a higher level.

-Gregg

[Ken Cartwright]

Actually Ken, my point was more about the blasie attitude of the hack.

Thank you for your opinion though.

-Gregg

I'm not sure there is much that can be done about it at this point. What attitude were you expecting, given that it's already happened, and we have no idea what information was obtained? Do you think that in some way it reflects on the F-35 program as a whole?

[Aussie_superbug]

On the upside the First Aussie Lighting took to the skies

http://australianaviation.com.au/2014/09/first-flight-for-first-raaf-f-35/

[GreyGhost]

I'm not sure there is much that can be done about it at this point. What attitude were you expecting, given that it's already happened, and we have no idea what information was obtained? Do you think that in some way it reflects on the F-35 program as a whole?

I guess I expected at least a "Yeah its a problem that has to be stopped".

Ithink it reflects on the program as a whole. It leaks like a cullander.

What good is having a super high tech stealth fighter if potential enemies know how to beat it before it gets into service.

Maybe I am wrong and it isn't a big deal after all or maybe these hackers are just being fed false information. I guess I'm wrong for worrying about such things.

-Gregg

Edited September 30, 2014 by GreyGhost

[MarkW]

I didn't initiate the "Security" excuse either. Did I point you out specifically?, no, I said "You guys" in reference to the F-35 praisers.

And you're one to talk about the art of the cheap shot. You take it to a higher level. :salute:/>/>

-Gregg

Yeah, you pretty much did. Just like I'm quoting you now. NYou specifically respond to a post I made, quoting myself, use the phrase "you guys" in that response, then have the chutzpah to try this little act of dissembling?! Need I repost your other little cheap shot tying TT and I on the same page?

Bravo, sir, bravo. You have fully defined your level of intellectual honesty so much better than I.

And again for the record, since you by default have included me with "you guys" in the praisers pile, try reading all the posts I made that are critical of the program. You don't have to go too far back. I guess there is no middle ground between the haters and the fan boys in your world, huh? But you sadly are not alone in that.

Finally, I do not take cheap shots. When I point out knee jerk, immature, incorrect behavior I certainly can do better than your go-to of "I know you are but what am I?" or other such grade school responses.

Edited September 30, 2014 by MarkW

[TaiidanTomcat]

lets begin shall we?

Actually Ken, my point was more about the blasie attitude of the hack.

again, its not a surprise that attacks are occurring, and its not a surprise that a few of them may get through. This goes back well over a half century. You don't know what they got, I don't know what they got, and no one is going to say exactly what they got. It might make a difference, it might make zero difference.

So as far as I am concerned there isn't much I can do about it. The governments involved are continueing to do what they have been doing the whole time though. They attack, we defend and you don't win 100 percent of the time. Hacking and counter hacking are not my area of expertise.

I didn't initiate the "Security" excuse either. Did I point you out specifically?, no, I said "You guys" in reference to the F-35 praisers.

And you're one to talk about the art of the cheap shot. You take it to a higher level. :salute:/>

-Gregg

I would just drop this and apologize to Mark but you can keep fighting that battle.

I guess I expected at least a "Yeah its a problem that has to be stopped".

I kind of thought that went without saying. Am I now at "official" level when it comes to F-35 comments and what I say represents the program in an official capacity? I think the people involved have made their comments clear but if you need me to repeat them, I can I guess.

Ithink it reflects on the program as a whole. It leaks like a cullander.

Can you please give the context for this comment? how many foreign governments have attempted to hack or spy on the JSF program vs number of successful attempts?

What good is having a super high tech stealth fighter if potential enemies know how to beat it before it gets into service.

Maybe I am wrong and it isn't a big deal after all or maybe these hackers are just being fed false information. I guess I'm wrong for worrying about such things.

You are welcome to worry, you can lay in the fetal position rocking back and forth until you suck the thumb off your hand. Let me know if it helps and I will do the same. There isn't a whole lot I can really comment on with the Danish thing, I try to post on things that I know about and can talk about. I'm not going to start commenting on Danish Intelligence and System security. All I can hope to do is find out through open sources what the hackers found, and from that scant evidence try to piece together what might have been compromised and how that fits into a larger picture. But thats all conjecture.

Maybe a Dane who works on the program and is free to talk about it can help out, but this is a big program and for as flattering as it is that you think I know every detail to the last rivet from the worlds largest defense program, I do not. Wish I did. But I don't. There is so much out there about the JSF that is complete and utter BS, that I would rather say nothing than say something false and add to the garbage out there.

Now it pretty much goes without saying that the governments involved with the JSF are going to change things up if they think something important got compromised. and they will continue, as they have been for years attempting to thwart espionage.

* my views are not the views of LM or the US government. if TT doesn't comment on something it doesn't mean the US Government or LM don't care a great deal.

[Ken Cartwright]

I guess I expected at least a "Yeah its a problem that has to be stopped".

Ithink it reflects on the program as a whole. It leaks like a cullander.

What good is having a super high tech stealth fighter if potential enemies know how to beat it before it gets into service.

Maybe I am wrong and it isn't a big deal after all or maybe these hackers are just being fed false information. I guess I'm wrong for worrying about such things.

-Gregg

TT pretty much addressed these things, but as part of our conversation, I will too.

I don't think we need comments here to point out the obvious, that hacks are a problem and need to be stopped, so it just doesn't seem worthwhile. But OK, here: hacks are a problem and need to be stopped. For the record, in case they come up in the future, so are compromised employees, blabber-mouths, and other potential security leaks, et al.

I think it's a stretch to say this reflects on the F-35 program in general because we don't know what was taken, nor that it's necessarily any worse than any other program has been or would be under the circumstances. Security leaks and hacks are not exclusive to the F-35. Just have a look at this Wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_government_security_breaches

This breach could be a big deal, but I'm not sure what action you're expecting because of it. Cancel the program? Start over? What if the data, while being part of the F-35 program, is not unique to the F-35? What if it's general stealth secrets? Should we cancel all stealth aircraft going forward?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, and am just trying to figure out what you think the reaction should be, and what changes (besides the obvious security changes) should be done because of it?

Edited September 30, 2014 by Ken Cartwright

[TaiidanTomcat]

Video of RAAF:

Green Knights:

http://www.dvidshub.net/video/363769/green-knights-introduce-f-35b

Edited October 1, 2014 by TaiidanTomcat

[IrishGreek]

Well, looks like California is getting some more JSF love...

NAS Lemoore wins

[Ken Cartwright]

Just saw this article on Yahoo, not sure if it's really any new info, though:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/10/09/navy-to-commission-amphib-designed-for-f-35s-and-no-well-deck/

Sounds like the first two America class ships will be for air-power only, using Ospreys, Helos, and F-35Bs without any smaller amphib assault vehicles.

[fulcrum1]

Just saw this article on Yahoo, not sure if it's really any new info, though:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/10/09/navy-to-commission-amphib-designed-for-f-35s-and-no-well-deck/

Sounds like the first two America class ships will be for air-power only, using Ospreys, Helos, and F-35Bs without any smaller amphib assault vehicles.

They're going to have an awesome capability with vitually everything on that ship modern. The USMC has never had it so good.

[spejic]

The USS America is open for tours during San Francisco Fleet Week and I went aboard on Thursday. I've also been on the USS Makin Island, which the America is based on, a few times and the difference in the size of the hanger is pretty amazing.