Jump to content
ARC Discussion Forums
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
MarkW

F-35 news roundup

Recommended Posts

From CNN today...they're definitely not journalists.

:rofl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

11bee: yes, you told us so. Based upon this I can only conclude the F-35 is an abject failure. What emoticon do I use for hanging my head in shame?

Mark - I know you have a full plate, what with the balls you are juggling to keep The Program on track, so I'll assume that you occasionally misread a post or two. Totally understandable.

All that being said, I don't ever recall stating the above. I know I might disagree on a few issues with some of our more avid F-35 fans (I don't think I'm the only person in this category either) but I'm also pretty sure that I've stated more than once that I want The Program to succeed. If for no other reason that we (the US) don't have a Plan B if the F-35 tanks.

The F-35 has the potential to be truly revolutionary, the only question is whether it will live up to it's potential. I'm hoping it does.

Best Regards,

11 (F-35 BFF)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Might as well start learning Chinese now boys...

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/07/01/failure-of-new-u-s-weapons-systems-may-be-more-than-science-fiction/

TT, here we have an example of what many would consider to be a mainstream news organization absolutely slamming the F-35 as a complete and utter failure based upon a fictional novel. I don't see how you could ever question the journalistic credibility of a part-time photographer/hotdog salesman after this.

11bee: yes, you told us so. Based upon this I can only conclude the F-35 is an abject failure. What emoticon do I use for hanging my head in shame?

I've read the first few chapters...and its really bad. I know quite a few people in "certain defence circles" that have the same view. Its really unfortunate because I like Singer's work: he might be looked back upon as one of the first real UAV analysts. Its just got too much in the way of a leap of faith for me to agree to... these following events all happen in the beginning of the book:

#1 China and Russia stage a major "conflict" in Siberia to distract attention away from their actual plans. - I'm sure that they could fabricate hundreds or thousands of casualties without US intelligence knowing. But generally that puts other states on heighten alerts. Think the 1971 Indo-Pakistan war... The US military sends the USS enterprise into the Indian ocean to observe. Yet it doesn't do anything at all.

#2 Russian with a single carrier, are able to destroy most of the US's capabilities in Japan, without any losses. That includes a carrier and all of the fighters we have there. Apparently "Japanese" couldn't agree on attacking the intruders (which is ironic given that the Japanese are pretty touchy about their territorial integrity..)

#3 China's DF-21 takes out another carrier, and "surprise!" it also destroys subs too. Fantastic.

#4. Chinese ABM systems basically destroy the entire US GPS system. Okay sure.

#5. the Chinese have a hack on the F-35, unbeknowsnt to the US that basically allows them to target the aircraft at all times.

#6 They invade Hawaii with container vessels and take over the Islands.

I mean really all of them?

The best part of all of this is that the US intelligence community is completely surprised by ALL of this. Zero warning; every single source failed to uncover a single piece of this plan... yet the Chinese have a 100% success rate of all of their efforts. So look at it this way. The Chinese will have had to test the DF-21 missile somehow, or their new laser ABM system... yet they didn't. But on their first try they work? Sure.

Its just not credible or believable. I can believe that some of them could happen (some are just completely outlandish, like the ABM system) but not all of them. Sure its footnoted but I think its mischaracterizes a lot, and walks down the well trodden path of making out enemies seem like 7 foot 1 super soldiers... which they are not.

Edited by -Neu-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would think just taking out the GPS satellites would be enough to set us back plenty with the airplanes we use now...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would think just taking out the GPS satellites would be enough to set us back plenty with the airplanes we use now...

Sure... actually, it would hurt our current generation of aircraft more. Basically the authors posit that the F-35 other new aircraft are too technologically advanced and are full of flaws, so the U.S. reactivates huge number of 4th Generation aircraft from AMARC and other places. These are then used to fight the Chinese into a withdrawal.

The problem is that to keep these aircraft viable, they need to use standoff weaponry like the JSOW to stay out of the range of Chinese Air defence systems. Without GPS, how will they be able to guide weapons accurately? Its really a questionable assertion in my mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure... actually, it would hurt our current generation of aircraft more. Basically the authors posit that the F-35 other new aircraft are too technologically advanced and are full of flaws, so the U.S. reactivates huge number of 4th Generation aircraft from AMARC and other places. These are then used to fight the Chinese into a withdrawal.

The problem is that to keep these aircraft viable, they need to use standoff weaponry like the JSOW to stay out of the range of Chinese Air defence systems. Without GPS, how will they be able to guide weapons accurately? Its really a questionable assertion in my mind.

Pretty sure the latest generation of GPS guided munitions also have inertial navigation as back up. I don't think it provides quite the same level of accuracy as GPS but should be close enough to "get her done" in most cases. They have come a long ways with INS over the last decade or so. Supposedly they are much cheaper, smaller and more accurate than their predecessors. Thought I read somewhere that it was predicted that INS might supplant GPS as the primary navigation method in another decade or so. This would be pretty nice, since as far as I know, there is no way to jam or disable an INS system.

Loss of GPS would be tough but loss of our communication satellite network would be devastating, both from a military and economic standpoint. Keep in mind that with today's software technology, you may not have to physical destroy a bunch of comm satellites to render the network useless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so the U.S. reactivates huge number of 4th Generation aircraft from AMARC and other places. These are then used to fight the Chinese into a withdrawal.

Willy Wonka meme:

"How wonderful! Where do they find all the trained aircrew, ground crew, and spare parts to accomplish this?"

Granted, I'd love to see a well-researched book or TV mini-series where China goes after Taiwan, Okinawa, and other US support facilities during their campaign. I've always been curious about the potential results of a surprise attack on our airbases and naval assets, considering the limited production and repair facilities at our disposal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure... actually, it would hurt our current generation of aircraft more. Basically the authors posit that the F-35 other new aircraft are too technologically advanced and are full of flaws, so the U.S. reactivates huge number of 4th Generation aircraft from AMARC and other places. These are then used to fight the Chinese into a withdrawal.

The problem is that to keep these aircraft viable, they need to use standoff weaponry like the JSOW to stay out of the range of Chinese Air defence systems. Without GPS, how will they be able to guide weapons accurately? Its really a questionable assertion in my mind.

I assume of course the F-22 Is given a "pass"? When all this whiz bang tech fails?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Willy Wonka meme:

"How wonderful! Where do they find all the trained aircrew, ground crew, and spare parts to accomplish this?"

All they really need is Randy Quaid in an F-18.

Regards,

Murph

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
#1 China and Russia stage a major "conflict" in Siberia to distract attention away from their actual plans. - I'm sure that they could fabricate hundreds or thousands of casualties without US intelligence knowing.

Was it an "off" time for international media as well? I would assume a war between Russia and China might get more attention than even Bruce Jenner.

#2 Russian with a single carrier, are able to destroy most of the US

#3 China's DF-21 takes out another carrier, and "surprise!" it also destroys subs too. Fantastic.

#4. Chinese ABM systems basically destroy the entire US GPS system. Okay sure.

#6 They invade Hawaii with container vessels and take over the Islands.

I mean really all of them?

2908950bc83228ade19d4ad3d7b05215.jpg

All they really need is Randy Quaid in an F-18.

Regards,

Murph

giphy.gif

back up:

true.jpg

#5. the Chinese have a hack on the F-35, unbeknowsnt to the US that basically allows them to target the aircraft at all times.

tumblr_n332fauxYy1tr4fi7o9_500.gif

Edited by TaiidanTomcat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading many posts within this thread it occurred to me that, as a collective group with all the posts combined, we don't know 5% of what Lockheed Martin and the Pentagon knows about this fighter- and likely at least 50% of all posts are just plain wrong. It's fun to speculate and all, but let's not get too serious about ourselves. For the most part, we are just grown men who play with plastic toys, even if we did once serve in the military.

Just sayin'! :whistle:

Edited by chuck540z3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean really all of them?

Yes, and the more the merrier. It's an exercise in thinking about the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns. It should challenge the reader to think about assumptions and on a strategic level what is presupposed....manufacturing, store houses food, etc. Will Battlestart Gallictica ever happen? Of course not, but the lessons that can be learned are similar.

The best part of all of this is that the US intelligence community is completely surprised by ALL of this. Zero warning; every single source failed to uncover a single piece of this plan... yet the Chinese have a 100% success rate of all of their efforts. So look at it this way. The Chinese will have had to test the DF-21 missile somehow, or their new laser ABM system... yet they didn't. But on their first try they work? Sure.

Only my opinion, but I think that is one of the more plausible scenarios with the track record US Intel has had over the past few decades.

Its just not credible or believable. I can believe that some of them could happen (some are just completely outlandish, like the ABM system) but not all of them. Sure its footnoted but I think its mischaracterizes a lot, and walks down the well trodden path of making out enemies seem like 7 foot 1 super soldiers... which they are not.

I would say we overestimate the enemy when we try and push an agenda or product while we underestimate the enemy when we actually fight them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading many posts within this thread it occurred to me that, as a collective group with all the posts combined, we don't know 5% of what Lockheed Martin and the Pentagon knows about this fighter- and likely at least 50% of all posts are just plain wrong. It's fun to speculate and all, but let's not get too serious about ourselves. For the most part, we are just grown men who play with plastic toys, even if we did once serve in the military.

Just sayin'! :whistle:/>

We do know it's late and over budget ... :thumbsup:

-Gregg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We do know it's late and over budget ... :thumbsup:/>

w

And it can't dogfight.

However... to truly be fair and balanced, it is worth remembering that many of things that the F-35 can do exceedingly well are classified and won't be made public for many years to come.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read a book a long time ago about a Japanese carrier that had been trapped behind a glacier before Pearl harbor, and eventually got out, sometime in the 80s, and attacked Hawaii. In the sequel, China unleashed a satellite that could shoot down anything with a turbine in it (locking onto the extra hot given off by turbines, don'tchaknow) and thus, the WW2 carrier become the most powerful military force in the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why isn't anyone tripping over themselves referencing this epic work of hysterical erm, historical awesomeness to show how our reliance on high tech is our doom, dooooom, dooooom?

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/a/peter-albano/seventh-carrier.htm

Alvis 3.1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quick question; anyone have an updated block upgrades roadmap?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Damn... While I can totally imagine USAF F-18's (Uber cool btw), You guys can't cause the cancellation of the F-35. I've already bought a model of it, lol!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Forget all that...let's talk about important stuff. I heard a rumor that Hasegawa is to release a series of F-35 kits. Anyone else? 1/48 or 1/72...if '48 my Kittyhawk kits are eBay bound!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Forget all that...let's talk about important stuff. I heard a rumor that Hasegawa is to release a series of F-35 kits. Anyone else? 1/48 or 1/72...if '48 my Kittyhawk kits are eBay bound!

I have curbed my need to buy a KittyHawk kit.....just waiting it out till Hase makes one in 1/48th. I'm a patient man..... :thumbsup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...