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MarkW

F-35 news roundup

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Aha.  You are assuming that would be the weapon of choice for the DEAD/SEAD mission.  That would also be an incorrect assumption.  The whole CONOPS, from takoff to pilots back home in their jammies, is very different from the current SEAD/DEAD paradigm.  That the F-35 has a limited SEAD/DEAD capability right now in IOC would be a clue as to what weapons they employ, but certainly not how.

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19 minutes ago, MarkW said:

Aha.  You are assuming that would be the weapon of choice for the DEAD/SEAD mission.  That would also be an incorrect assumption.  The whole CONOPS, from takoff to pilots back home in their jammies, is very different from the current SEAD/DEAD paradigm.  That the F-35 has a limited SEAD/DEAD capability right now in IOC would be a clue as to what weapons they employ, but certainly not how.

 

so if i understand you correctly, current or future ARM type of weapons are outta question?

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9 hours ago, murad said:

 

more numbers again.

one problem i see with the sead part at least is that any dd rusian sam worth it's salt would require at least 2 good flights of f16s to do all the saturation as well as locating the real radar (decoys, triangulation, any ec aircraft the whole deal) and finally getting tru to even in a half assed iads environment. if that 4 f35s alone really can do the job just with their sensors and limited dead/sead capability then more power to them of course but as has been said earlier russians probably aren't standing still with their electronics and tactics.

 

Other numbers that might be worth noting was when General Amos said the F-35B has "85 percent" of the capability of the Prowler. Which is pretty impressive. F-35s also have vastly more capable sensors than F-16CJs as well, so they are better able to locate those real targets as well. Simply put the F-35s will do the job better, which was the whole idea in the first place. If you want to tell me how sending F-16s to hunt SAMs is less dangerous than sending in LO aircraft with game changing sensors and EW capability, I'm all ears but I know which aircraft I would take. 

 

47 minutes ago, murad said:

 

is there anything documented about an agm88 or anything similar with that particular job to be able to fitted onto/into and fired off an f35 so far? even if on paper how many and in what combo with other weapons?

 

Its ironic you mention decoys in your previous post as decoys are one of the reasons the AGM-88s are going out of style. HARMs kill Radars, not the SAMs themselves. Modern IADs will have not only use decoys but redundant radars as well. So the SAMs will be "knocked out" for about zero seconds. In 1999 a B-2 took out a SAM site using a direct attack. It just bombed it. The end. Don't bother getting up, I have it. No HARM needed. If you look at the 1970s and 1980s you saw lots of specialized munitions, many of them have gone out of style as you don't need a special anti tank weapon for example if you can simply hit the tank accurately with a JDAM. F-111s turned out to be wonderful tank killers in 1991 because they could simply use LGBs on tanks for example. No need to send the Hogs. 

 

 

I think its funny that people are worried about the F-35's obsolescence as it refuses to use obsolete weapons and tactics... If it did it the old way better would people be happy? instead of the new way vastly better? There also seems to be a direct correlation to the people who have the most knowledge of the F-35 (for example all the nations buying it and their experts) that have the most faith in it, while the people who have the least amount of knowledge about it have the biggest fears. Here is a fun fact, a few months ago the USAF extended its planned retirement date of the F-35 into the 2060s. So rather than it becoming obsolete, the Air Force thinks its actually going to be useful beyond even its original plans. In the FBI you would call that a "clue" but I know the internet says it will be obsolete but a fighter designed in the 1970s and updated 20 years ago is G2G for the next 50 years. 

 

 

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I suspect they're estimating the usefulness of the F-35 based on the F-16 ...considering it entered service just about 40 years ago now. 

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So what's the F-35's weapon of choice for DEAD?  I've read that many modern systems have the ability to target incoming HARMs and bombs.   Do SDB's have a reduced signature?  

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1 hour ago, 11bee said:

So what's the F-35's weapon of choice for DEAD?  I've read that many modern systems have the ability to target incoming HARMs and bombs.   Do SDB's have a reduced signature?  

 

Beyond SDBs you have JDAMs. Big heavy bombs with more mass and less warning than missiles. More flexibility as well as again you don't need specialized weapons to kill stuff

 

There is also the fact that AESA can be used to hurt radars and "cyber warfare" but we don't talk about any of that. 

 

Deputy commandant of Marine Air was recently bragging about an F-35 engaging an enemy fighter at the same time participating in air to ground actions. Pretty impressive demonstration. Hopefully brings home the notion of F-35s being more capable than a 1 for 1 replacement.

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38 minutes ago, TaiidanTomcat said:

 

Beyond SDBs you have JDAMs. Big heavy bombs with more mass and less warning than missiles. More flexibility as well as again you don't need specialized weapons to kill stuff

 

There is also the fact that AESA can be used to hurt radars and "cyber warfare" but we don't talk about any of that. 

 

Deputy commandant of Marine Air was recently bragging about an F-35 engaging an enemy fighter at the same time participating in air to ground actions. Pretty impressive demonstration. Hopefully brings home the notion of F-35s being more capable than a 1 for 1 replacement.



Was it that they were engaging an aggressor while at the same time performing their A2G tasking or sequentially?  If it's sequentially then that's been done before...

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It was done simultaneously while also preparing AND eating a ham sandwich.

 

Yes, it's that damn good.

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Regarding the comment about F-35s, HARM and SEAD/DEAD, I thought one of the attributes of the F-35 system was to be able to say:

 

"Hey Mr F-16CJ, see that dot I just drew on your screen?  Kill it."

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1 hour ago, habu2 said:

Regarding the comment about F-35s, HARM and SEAD/DEAD, I thought one of the attributes of the F-35 system was to be able to say:

 

"Hey Mr F-16CJ, see that dot I just drew on your screen?  Kill it."


Basically a force coordinator, multiplier and mini-awacs? lol 

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4 hours ago, Jonathan_Lotton said:



Was it that they were engaging an aggressor while at the same time performing their A2G tasking or sequentially?  If it's sequentially then that's been done before...

LtGen Bogdan: "...The USMC also conducted a live fire weapons exercise at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida last summer. The main highlight of that was one of the pilots simultaneously laser-guided a GBU-12 bomb at the same time he was engaging an air-to-air target with an AIM-120 radar missile. Both were direct hits. This is something that no fourth-generation fighter can accomplish...."

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2 hours ago, habu2 said:

Regarding the comment about F-35s, HARM and SEAD/DEAD, I thought one of the attributes of the F-35 system was to be able to say:

 

"Hey Mr F-16CJ, see that dot I just drew on your screen?  Kill it."

 

That's correct. The next step is the F-35 launching that weapon without saying "hey Mr F-16..." a US Navy F-35 pilot tried to emphasize that a few years ago basically saying "ill pull the trigger. And the weapon may not even come off my aircraft. That is where we're headed." Im paraphrasing but that's the plan.

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2 hours ago, Jonathan_Lotton said:


Basically a force coordinator, multiplier and mini-awacs? lol 

You got it.  Sensor fusion is no joke, and the ability to send a high quality track created by the four ship to a 4th gen fighter via LINK-16 is pretty much a no brainer.  The only issue is who does the shooting--whether it would be operationally viable for the F-16 to take the shot, or the F-35 would have to do it.

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On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 3:01 PM, TaiidanTomcat said:

j98hikP.jpg

Scale Modelers rejoice, rumors of new coating method as seen above. contrast with picture below

I refuse to build an F 35 until the top coating method is utilized by the services!

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What the heck FS numbers are they going to now?!

 

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On 5/12/2017 at 9:14 AM, Grey Ghost 531 said:

 

 

Low frequency means long wavelength. Long wavelength means low resolution. The LF radar will detect a target but it will not locate the target. They'll know something's out there, somewhere. With bi-stable radar (separate transmit and receive stations) they'll do better, but it will take lots of computing power. It's possible to track stealthy targets, just MUCH harder. The post you saw was probably a Su fanboi site and to be judged for accuracy appropriately.


Exactly. The other limitation of LF radar is that it can't be used for targeting missiles. LF radars are usually very large (fixed sites) and require lots of power, so they're vulnerable.

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On 5/13/2017 at 0:04 PM, 11bee said:

 

But at the same time, there are some folks who say that was the very reason why the F-117 was all of a sudden retired, with no replacement on line.   Never gonna know for sure who has the upper hand until the jet goes up against a first rate opponent, which hopefully will never happen. 

 

 

Aside from the aforementioned advanced in LO technology, remember that the F-117 was a subsonic platform that had no self-defense capability (not even RWR), a payload limited to two 2000-lb LGBs and it's primary sensors were a couple of FLIR turrets. 

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On 5/13/2017 at 8:24 PM, 11bee said:

Agree 100%. Just got to keep in mind that as our stuff improves, the bad guys aren't resting on their laurels either.   Not saying that they have the upper hand by any means, just that it's a continual effort by both sides to out-do the other    


In other breaking news, water is wet.

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On 5/15/2017 at 9:06 PM, TaiidanTomcat said:

Lastly a quick remark on the F-35 and stealth. Stealth is the F-35s most obvious feature, and it's an easy club to beat it's competitors with (especially other western fighters in fighter selections) but stealth is not it's only feature, and the costs of 5th generation aircraft sensors pale in comparison to the cost of stealth. 50 percent of the F-22 cost according to Rand was sensors. Sensors that ensure 5th generation fighters see first/shoot first. 


Yup. ATF program was really about developing three next generation aspects, and merging them all into one platform:
1. An LO airframe that could match the performance of the F-15
2. Engines
3. Sensors

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22 hours ago, TaiidanTomcat said:

 

Beyond SDBs you have JDAMs. Big heavy bombs with more mass and less warning than missiles. More flexibility as well as again you don't need specialized weapons to kill stuff

 

There is also the fact that AESA can be used to hurt radars and "cyber warfare" but we don't talk about any of that. 

 

Deputy commandant of Marine Air was recently bragging about an F-35 engaging an enemy fighter at the same time participating in air to ground actions. Pretty impressive demonstration. Hopefully brings home the notion of F-35s being more capable than a 1 for 1 replacement.

 

Don't forget JASSM. It may not be employed by F-35, but numerous other platforms can carry it. DEAD will see F-35s and JASSMs. JASSMs everywhere.

07.jpge0df386d-1c1e-414d-8939-58ea0d8444

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16 hours ago, Bill said:

I refuse to build an F 35 until the top coating method is utilized by the services!

 

Lol 

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54 minutes ago, TaiidanTomcat said:

From what is out there in the press, it sounds like BA took into account that they might loose the SH order over this and decided that the benefit of winning the trade dispute was worth the potential loss of this order.

 

Given that Boeing has been one of the leading "brown-nosers" of the current administration and that their complaint fits in well with the America Uber Alles trade polices, they figure they have a pretty good chance of winning this dispute.  

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I've heard that LM is also stepping up behind the scenes to help with our "capability" gap.

 

The drama continues.

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