CF-104

[AX 365]

I have the Revell of Germany 1/32 'Olympos' boxing of an F-104G. I plan to do a monochromatic green Zipper from the early '70s. I'll be using Bill's sheet #18. I just looked at the sheet (although I've had it for ages) and it looks quite good. I have to send him a quick note to ask for a couple of addendums. As stated, this will be an OOB build and I'll be going for appearance rather than complete accuracy. I should be starting this one as soon as I finish by Sabre for that GB.

Thanks for letting me play.

Mike

Edited October 3, 2010 by AX 365

[AX 365]

While I was reading ALF's thread about his build, I went to check to see if I had a BB cockpit set for one of my future 1/48 Starfighter builds. I do. I'll be taking notes of Dan's build for when the time comes for me to shoehorn a BB cockpit assembly into one of my own Zippers.

While checking for said resin bits, I discovered that had ordered, from our friend Gordo at Sprue Brothers, a True Details F-104G resin cockpit assembly for the Hasegawa family of Starfighters. Apparently my build will not be OOB as previously advertised. Or, depending on how ill fitting the cockpit is or how frustrated I get with it,...maybe it will. Who knows? Stay tuned!

Edited June 16, 2010 by AX 365

[Flyboyf18]

OK Mike, what green are you going to use, figuring two minds might help on this? My test zipper (was already assembled) is getting this treatment, 'cause the other two are easy; one's red and the other yellow and black.

I have been researching this colour and most if not all the recommendations are not available from Xtracolour (God's Paint) so I have been testing some. So far I like X27 one of the British Helo greens, and Steve 'Big Guy' Sauve said he has seen the colour as a rich green. On the IPMS Canada he also noted these birds were painted in Scotland so to me the X27 might be as close as I am going to get.

Yours or anybody's $00.02 on this!

[AX 365]

Hi Graham. I'm not sure what green I'm going to use however I am leaning towards the Model Master RAF Dark Green or something similar. Having said that, here's a neat resource I found.

http://hedgehoghollow.com/buzz/Colour_Guid...rcraft_clr.html

Check out the 5th swatch from the top. It almost looks like an olive drab or brownish green. I also read somewhere, and I can't for the life of me remember where, that almost any version of any dark green could be appropriate for the European Zippers.

As suggested, anyone else want to chime in?

Mike

[ALF18]

Ah, the famous question. I believe the easy answer is that there is no exact match. The colour was not an FS; it was created in Prestwick Scotland, and was a formulation that did not correspond to a NATO or US standard colour.

There definitely was a bit of a brown hue to the green. My father and I used to argue about it. I would say I was buying paint to do the new 'green' camouflage, and he said 'no, it's not green - it's brown'. I told him no, it looked green, and he would always win when he played the 'I fly them and climb into them every day - I should know' card.

I have used Humbrol 117, which looks pretty close to me. I would paint 1/72 scale CF-104s in this colour when I lived in Germany, and it looked pretty similar to the aircraft that flew by every day on the base in the mid 70s.

I've also used Tamiya XF 26, but it looks a bit light and not quite brown enough.

The last one I did was with Tamiya XF 67, NATO green, which is also close to FS 34102.

If I were a real stickler for accuracy, I'd use NATO green mixed with a hint of dark brown to give it that vaguely khaki hue, while retaining the overall green dominant colour. For my own purposes, I am very happy with NATO green and/or Humbrol 117.

Sorry I don't have a definitive answer, but these options can get you pretty close. Avoid lighter greens, and look for something that is slightly brownish.

ALF

[AX 365]

I like your dad's reply ALF. Sounds like something my dad would have said. Hee Hee. Last time I tried Humbrol paints they really stunk. I wasn't impressed with them at all. I'll check for other close matches in the Model Master brands. Who knows? Maybe a mix of dark green and olive drab? We'll see. Thanks for the tips, pal.

Mike

[Barneydhc82]

With regard to the nickname "Zipper" when talking about the 104...I had some friends over last Friday night and one of them was a -104 driver, 434 Sqn RCAF who was at 3 Wing at the same time as myself. He was admiring my collection, especially the _104s and I used the term Zipper...big mistake..."We never used that name when referring to the -104" sez he..quite indignently.

Brian was "Schooner 49"

Barney

[Flyboyf18]

Here's my experiment; note all paint = God's paint

the numbers are all X##.

I was leaning to 27 which is British Helo grn, but now 155 a B-52 colour and 116 which is 34102 are looking good?!?

Whatcha think guys?

[phantom]

My best guess as closest is.... X-26, then 155, then 261

[CF104]

I'll be joining this group build as well and will be keeping an eye on this thread. I have the CAF reference at home for the paint scheme on the two tone CF-104 but these have no direct FS paint equivalent.

Anyway, I am putting on my pedantic hat now.... The CF-104 is either a straight CF-104 (104701-104900) or the CF-104D Mk.1 (104631-104652) or CF-104D Mk.2 (104653-104668). There was never a CF-104G

Cheers,

John

[Barneydhc82]

I tink that the best answer here is the one that answers the original question...which may need rewording...The "-104G Kit" would be the best one representative of the CF-104 but it needs a Lockheed C4 seat.

Barney

[CF104]

I tink that the best answer here is the one that answers the original question...which may need rewording...The "-104G Kit" would be the best one representative of the CF-104 but it needs a Lockheed C4 seat.

Barney

Hey Barney,

Actually the F-104J is more representative of the CF-104 than the F-104G is. The definitive F-104G has the heavy main gear, bulged main gear doors with a lot of them having the J79-GE-19 with the longer exhaust nozzle.

Cheers,

John

[Barneydhc82]

John..You are right about that..I haven't finished my 1st cup of coffee yet so still half asleep. I have a Hasegawa 1:32 F-104(something) in the stash which will get the BMF with Canmil air decals and a resin interior. I was based in Germany when we got the first 104s and it was a beautiful bird...until they started painting them to look like a lizzard.

Barney

[AX 365]

To appease John so he doesn't have to wear his pedantic hat all day, I've amended my original and subsequent posts eliminating all references to the CF-104G. I read that the Canadian Starfighters were built to similar standards as the F-104G and made a boo-boo when referring to our Widowmakers - I know the pilots probably didn't call them that either - as a CF-104G. Apologies to all.

Nice colour comparisons Graham. You could probably pick any one of those colours and be correct, or at least very close.

I agree Barney. The natural metal 104s are quite nice but in order to be very accurate, there's a bunch of masking and several metal colour variations required to get to look just right. One of these days I'll be brave - or stupid - enough to try one of those.

Have a great day guys.

Mike

[ALF18]

With regard to the nickname "Zipper" when talking about the 104...I had some friends over last Friday night and one of them was a -104 driver, 434 Sqn RCAF who was at 3 Wing at the same time as myself. He was admiring my collection, especially the _104s and I used the term Zipper...big mistake..."We never used that name when referring to the -104" sez he..quite indignently.

Brian was "Schooner 49"

Barney

Totally agree that no self-respecting Canadian who flew or maintained the 104 ever used the term Zipper to my knowledge. That term seemed to be very much of American origin.

My father and favourite Uncle both flew the 104. They called it variously: CF-104, 'one-oh-four', or Starfighter.

Of course, at the back bar on Friday night when journalists were hanging around, they would gravely call it the 'widowmaker' or 'aluminum death tube', just to stir the pot a bit!

Agree also that the 104J kits are the best to use from Hasegawa - they have the correct wheels, gear doors, and seat OOB, as does the Starfighters boxing that I am using on this GB.

ALF

[Scott Hemsley]

Hi Graham. I'm not sure what green I'm going to use however I am leaning towards the Model Master RAF Dark Green or something similar. Having said that, here's a neat resource I found.

http://hedgehoghollow.com/buzz/Colour_Guid...rcraft_clr.html

Check out the 5th swatch from the top. It almost looks like an olive drab or brownish green. I also read somewhere, and I can't for the life of me remember where, that almost any version of any dark green could be appropriate for the European Zippers.

As suggested, anyone else want to chime in?

Mike

When I did my 1'72 Italeri in the same overall green scheme, I recall that I used one of the Italian WW2 greens. All I know, is that I presented that to a chap teaching at the CF's Senior Staff College and got a rowsing bit of praise for nailing the colour (as he remembered it). He flew the 'green' CF-104 for 421 Sqn. during his time in Germany.

Just a thought....

Scott

[CF104]

To appease John so he doesn't have to wear his pedantic hat all day, I've amended my original and subsequent posts eliminating all references to the CF-104G. I read that the Canadian Starfighters were built to similar standards as the F-104G and made a boo-boo when referring to our Widowmakers - I know the pilots probably didn't call them that either - as a CF-104G. Apologies to all.

Have a great day guys.

Mike

That's alright mike. I have a limit of one openly pedantic moment per day. That way I don't have to wear this stupid looking hat all day

Cheers,

John

[AX 365]

That's alright mike. I have a limit of one openly pedantic moment per day. That way I don't have to wear this stupid looking hat all day

Cheers,

John

And that way you don't get hat head either.

[AX 365]

Well I've finished my Sabre build and I will soon start this project. I looked at the True Details resin cockpit set and I think it will be way more trouble than it is worth. The TD kit is designed for Hasegawa kits, not Revell. The kit cockpit it is.

Gonna take the weekend off - model building wise as I'm working midnights Fri, Sat and Sun - and I'll probably start this project on Monday or Tuesday next week.

Stay tuned and I hope my build is as impressive as many we've seen here.

Take care all.

Mike

[AX 365]

Well, I've started the build. As noted, I've foregone the resin cockpit. This should be a relatively straightforward build. However, being a Murphy, I always keep my namesakes' law in the back of my mind. I've been afflicted with it many times. I've glued a few pieces together. Cockpit painting will take place relatively soon. I'll take some photos of progress once the interior painting has been done.

Scott...thanks for the tip. Do you by any chance remember what flavour of Italian green you used?

Cheers folks and thanks for checking in.

Mike

[ALF18]

Eager to see pics, buddy!

It's about time you got to this - imagine, letting work get in the way of modeling... :)

Or should I say that it's a good sign that you have time now to work on this!

ALF

[Sean Bratton]

Totally agree that no self-respecting Canadian who flew or maintained the 104 ever used the term Zipper to my knowledge. That term seemed to be very much of American origin.

My father and favourite Uncle both flew the 104. They called it variously: CF-104, 'one-oh-four', or Starfighter

Not to stray off course again but Dad always called it either "one-oh-four" or Starfighter, the later usually when talking to relatives who weren't in the Air Force. If it had been a particularly challenging day on the line it was referred to as "twenty thousand pounds of junk flying in formation".

Looking forward to seeing some pictures, Mike.

Cheers,

Sean

[AX 365]

No worries Sean. Ignorance is bliss so I must be the happiest man here!

I have made some progress on my build so here are a few photos to prove my claims. There aren't a whole lot of parts to his kit and it's not an overly complicated build. It is pretty big and it's going to require some premium shelf space when done. Some parts fit together really well while some don't. It should look quite reasonable when done.

Anyway, here are some snaps of the progress. If I wanted to, this kit could probably be built in a week or so. I'm being particularly lazy with this build as the summer has been so nice. I've had to take advantage of the top down driving weather and play the occasional game of cow pasture pool.

Note the 6" ruler beside the fuselage. There's virtually no seam along the spine. Very nice.

The cockpit is spartan and the C2 seat is VERY short of detaiil and after looking at the resin set I had, I determined it would be too much work to make it fit as it was designed for the 1/32 Hasegawa 104. I should have used select pieces (seat, shroud, IP, etc) and mixed them with kit pieces. Oh well. I'll have a resin set to sell soon.

The wing tanks themselves are 6 inches long!

The vertical stab. It comes in two sizes. I'm using the larger one.

Weights in the nose cone. There's also another weight (same size) under the IP shroud.

Assorted other parts...

And the decals from CanMilAir

Thanks for looking. Comments and constructive criticism is always welcome.

Mike

[Flyboyf18]

Lots of bits to go, damn those tip tanks look as long as my whole kit!!

So far looking good.

[HOLMES]

Mike

looks good..

keep going..dont work too hard though ! :lol: