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Door guns on the Pave Low Blackhawks


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08 07 10

Guys, I am looking for some reference pics or drawings of the machine guns as mounted to the doors of the Blackhawk Pave Low or similar. Can anyone point me in the right direction here please? I have a project I would liek to do and am looking for some good reference to represent this area. Interested in differences of how the gun looks when stowed ( door closed) and deployed ( door open)

Thanks in advance

Liam

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08 07 10

Guys, I am looking for some reference pics or drawings of the machine guns as mounted to the doors of the Blackhawk Pave Low or similar. Can anyone point me in the right direction here please? I have a project I would liek to do and am looking for some good reference to represent this area. Interested in differences of how the gun looks when stowed ( door closed) and deployed ( door open)

Thanks in advance

Liam

Hi Liam,

You need to clarify exactly which type of airframe you're talking about, as there's no such thing as a Blackhawk Pave Low. Is it the Pave Low, an advanced CSAR variant of the H-53 series, or the Pave Hawk, a modified CSAR variant of the H-60 Black Hawk series? These links will provide you some basic info as to which is which:

Pave Low: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_MH-53

Pave Hawk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_HH-60_Pave_Hawk

Cheers,

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-I'm thinking we are meaning a Pave Hawk here.

If so, the 'door guns' are box feed .50 cal MG's. These were trialed by USAF CSR in the early "Gulf War 1" but proved to be too heavy for any practical reality.

-pity......as they look realy cool !

Edited by ixgr1
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-I'm thinking we are meaning a Pave Hawk here.

If so, the 'door guns' are box feed .50 cal MG's. These were trialed by USAF CSR in the early "Gulf War 1" but proved to be too heavy for any practical reality.

-pity......as they look realy cool !

09 07 10

Thisi s what I meant:

uh-60-m60.jpg

244592142_v4CmB-L.jpg

mp_main_wide_SpcJoeGrabrick.jpg

I am looking for reference on how the gun is mounted so that it can be stowed when the door is closed or how hte mount looks when the gun is deployed.

Liam

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Just to nitpick, these are not door mounted on the UH-60, but mounted at the crew chief's window between the cockpit and main cabin doors.

The mounts you have shown were developed by the US Army. The subsystem, consisting of 2 mounts, one on either side of the aircraft, was designated the M144, and was originally fitted with the M60D machine gun in the US Army. This has since been replaced first with the M240D, and now the M240H. To my knowledge the pintle adapter has changed, by the armament subsystem's nomenclature has remained the same. The weapon's stowed position I believe is internal, utilizing the mount's second arm to get it inside the aircraft and lock it in position. This would be very much like the mounts for the M60s on the CH-3E/HH-3E for instance. I'm not sure, however, as I don't have any clear pictures of it stowed.

A mount, without the second arm, was also developed in order to use the M134 Minigun. This was used by the USAF on the MH-60G (and the HH-60G?). To my knowledge it was a COTS purchase, and the mount is currently produced by Dillon Aero. There is some suggestion that this was developed by GE before they stopped doing gun work. Unlike the M144, the mount is designed to stowed by locking it in place in the window, I believe with the gun locked vertical.

The USAF has since replaced the window mounts with one of two external mounts, that attach to the front landing gear sponsons. These are designated the A/A49E-13 and E-14. The difference between the two is that the E-13 uses the M134 Minigun, while the E-14 uses the GAU-21/A .50 caliber machine gun. The magazine in both cases is external as well. here is a picture of the A/A49E-14. I have no idea what the weapon's stowed position looks like.

Edited by thatguy96
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mp_main_wide_SpcJoeGrabrick.jpg

Can someone get a full set pictures of this particular crew gear. I have an idea but definately need a full panoramic of the setup.

Can anyone help me out with this??

Thanks in advance!

Tricose :)

Edited by Tricose
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mp_main_wide_SpcJoeGrabrick.jpg

Can someone get a full set pictures of this particular crew gear. I have an idea but definately need a full panoramic of the setup.

Can anyone help me out with this??

Thanks in advance!

Tricose :coolio:

Couple of observations - it looks like the MG's are now fitted with the IR visible laser pointers. Haven't seen that before on helo door guys. The add on GPS unit is also something new. Not sure why a door gunner would need it though.... Maybe in a non-combat area he can use it to mount his cell phone so he can text w/ one hand :)

Still hoping that someone will come up with a resin set to update a Blackhawk to the latest version, with the new ASE gear, weapons, dust filters, etc.

Regards,

John

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Couple of observations - it looks like the MG's are now fitted with the IR visible laser pointers. Haven't seen that before on helo door guys. The add on GPS unit is also something new. Not sure why a door gunner would need it though.... Maybe in a non-combat area he can use it to mount his cell phone so he can text w/ one hand :coolio:

Still hoping that someone will come up with a resin set to update a Blackhawk to the latest version, with the new ASE gear, weapons, dust filters, etc.

Regards,

John

While these parts are interesting, the photographic clarity needed to develop such items is insufficient. Those images that seem to become available are not intended to act as reference data but more so are interesting snaps of people in places. The available published imaging falls far short of being able to make a 360 degree assessment of the parts. And the ASE locations are spotty. While the nose is quite clear, what about the other things that may be or actually are in place across the airframe? Until we get better references, we will just have to be patient.

Chris M

aka Chief Snake

Cobra Company

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Hey Chris,

Nice to see you about on the boards, I hope you are doing well. Never thought to ask the resident chopper guys or "guru's" themselves about the Helmet.

I saw pics of the MH-53 PAVE LOW's in their finest hours with some crew using that particular gear. As for trying to reproduce it I'm just toying with the idea of just doing the "head" only and then maybe a genric style body. Gotta start somewhere though.

For those that were kind enough to answer thanks and for giving me the proper name of the Helmet and the system.

Some of us just don't know.

Tricose :whistle:

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